I've been over on the CotI boards these last two days (for the first
time in 8 years) to try and find an answer to my question regarding the
two vargr states: Ruler of Five and Opposition Alliance. I never even
got around to posting my question there, which means I'm going to have
to go back. Crap!
The hate for TNE lives on. Oh my goodness, there are active threads
(ACTIVE!) with subjects like "Why do you hate Virus?". And people are
attacking it for all the same old reasons. One guy who was just
discovering the setting said that TNE didn't /feel/ like Traveller.
Another guy complained that though TNE was bad, Martin's 1248 setting
made things worse. And on and on.It was a flood. I had to fight the urge
to respond to these people or drown.
I checked the TNE section. No one had posted anything there in 75+ days.
We haven't had much activity here either. SFRPG has been quiet too. So
has everyone moved on from TNE?
I heard a rumor over on CotI that T5 will have a new setting where the
timeline is advanced to the year 1900. It's far enough out that Charted
Space should be sufficiently recovered from the Rebellion, Collapse,
Empress Wave, and Black Curtain War. The tech level max is to be bumped
up to 20. Sentient AIs and cybernetics will be embraced (someone claimed
that it's in the T5 rules). I admit that I'm intrigued, but I have to
wonder if it will be enough to appease the haters. They'll finally have
their shiny new 4th Imperium and all will be as it was in 1105, except
with more stuff. Will they finally shut up and move on?
The Old Farts never gave up really. Not really playing anything right now,
though have contemplated a few real world and concept designs for fun.
On Wed, Jan 13, 2016, 13:59 DED [Traveller_TNE] <
> wrote:
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I've been over on the CotI boards these last two days (for the first time
> in 8 years) to try and find an answer to my question regarding the two
> vargr states: Ruler of Five and Opposition Alliance. I never even got
> around to posting my question there, which means I'm going to have to go
> back. Crap!
>
> The hate for TNE lives on. Oh my goodness, there are active threads
> (ACTIVE!) with subjects like "Why do you hate Virus?". And people are
> attacking it for all the same old reasons. One guy who was just discovering
> the setting said that TNE didn't *feel* like Traveller. Another guy
> complained that though TNE was bad, Martin's 1248 setting made things
> worse. And on and on. It was a flood. I had to fight the urge to respond
> to these people or drown.
>
> I checked the TNE section. No one had posted anything there in 75+ days.
> We haven't had much activity here either. SFRPG has been quiet too. So has
> everyone moved on from TNE?
>
> I heard a rumor over on CotI that T5 will have a new setting where the
> timeline is advanced to the year 1900. It's far enough out that Charted
> Space should be sufficiently recovered from the Rebellion, Collapse,
> Empress Wave, and Black Curtain War. The tech level max is to be bumped up
> to 20. Sentient AIs and cybernetics will be embraced (someone claimed that
> it's in the T5 rules). I admit that I'm intrigued, but I have to wonder if
> it will be enough to appease the haters. They'll finally have their shiny
> new 4th Imperium and all will be as it was in 1105, except with more stuff.
> Will they finally shut up and move on?
>
> \_/
> DED
> TNE @ Yahoo ml Admin
>
>
T5 moving the timeline forward is just another reset, basically. Nobody beyond CotI actually cares about T5 though - heck, I don't think anyone outside CotI really cares what Marc does with the game anymore. They're still trying to fix it and make it usable even though it was supposedly released three years ago. I doubt it'll ever be release in a form that people will think is accessible either. So basically, just pretend it doesn't exist.
I think most people who still like the game seem happy using Mongoose Traveller (or whatever version they had before) for actual gaming. But I'm not sure if anyone new is actually being attracted to the game anyway.
On 13 Jan 2016 at 16:59, DED [Traveller_TNE] wrote:
> I checked the TNE section. No one had posted anything there in 75+
> days. We haven't had much activity here either. SFRPG has been quiet
> too. So has everyone moved on from TNE?
Well, I'm not using the TNE rules, and haven't for years (for a variety of reasons). I use
GURPS 4e instead. However, I've been running a game that started in the RC in 1201. In
game time is about 1209 now, and things have not followed the published order of
events. The PCs messed up some things, and other things didn't feel quite right to me
(mostly IMO the RC's planned timeframe was impossibly fast given Traveller's travel
times).
Right now the PC's are working to return to the RC after messing with an Ancients'
pocket universe saw them emerge in the Regency. To my amusement they decided to
have a look at Vland, but then avoided any part of the world that was or might be
inhabited, thus making the trip essentially pointless. An odd combination of reckless
and cowardly, my players.
I haven't posted here for ages because I haven't really had much to discuss, I guess.
puh-leeze, have them shut up and move on? Are you some kind of alien life
form that does not realize that the hate must live on, and on and on ...
someone shoot the bunny! anywho no not surprised at all fits in with
various other non TU non gaming threads I've seen ... its like hating Bush,
or gasp, Reagan ... it never stops
Tim
On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 2:59 PM, DED [Traveller_TNE] <
> wrote:
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I've been over on the CotI boards these last two days (for the first time
> in 8 years) to try and find an answer to my question regarding the two
> vargr states: Ruler of Five and Opposition Alliance. I never even got
> around to posting my question there, which means I'm going to have to go
> back. Crap!
>
> The hate for TNE lives on. Oh my goodness, there are active threads
> (ACTIVE!) with subjects like "Why do you hate Virus?". And people are
> attacking it for all the same old reasons. One guy who was just discovering
> the setting said that TNE didn't *feel* like Traveller. Another guy
> complained that though TNE was bad, Martin's 1248 setting made things
> worse. And on and on. It was a flood. I had to fight the urge to respond
> to these people or drown.
>
> I checked the TNE section. No one had posted anything there in 75+ days.
> We haven't had much activity here either. SFRPG has been quiet too. So has
> everyone moved on from TNE?
>
> I heard a rumor over on CotI that T5 will have a new setting where the
> timeline is advanced to the year 1900. It's far enough out that Charted
> Space should be sufficiently recovered from the Rebellion, Collapse,
> Empress Wave, and Black Curtain War. The tech level max is to be bumped up
> to 20. Sentient AIs and cybernetics will be embraced (someone claimed that
> it's in the T5 rules). I admit that I'm intrigued, but I have to wonder if
> it will be enough to appease the haters. They'll finally have their shiny
> new 4th Imperium and all will be as it was in 1105, except with more stuff.
> Will they finally shut up and move on?
>
> \_/
> DED
> TNE @ Yahoo ml Admin
>
>
oh, that was sarcasm for the uninitiated or my poor version of it ...
anyhow been busy elsewhere RL and such forth ... hope you all having good
times
Tim
On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 9:08 PM, ret7army . <> wrote:
> puh-leeze, have them shut up and move on? Are you some kind of alien life
> form that does not realize that the hate must live on, and on and on ...
> someone shoot the bunny! anywho no not surprised at all fits in with
> various other non TU non gaming threads I've seen ... its like hating Bush,
> or gasp, Reagan ... it never stops
> Tim
>
> On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 2:59 PM, DED [Traveller_TNE] <
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I've been over on the CotI boards these last two days (for the first time
>> in 8 years) to try and find an answer to my question regarding the two
>> vargr states: Ruler of Five and Opposition Alliance. I never even got
>> around to posting my question there, which means I'm going to have to go
>> back. Crap!
>>
>> The hate for TNE lives on. Oh my goodness, there are active threads
>> (ACTIVE!) with subjects like "Why do you hate Virus?". And people are
>> attacking it for all the same old reasons. One guy who was just discovering
>> the setting said that TNE didn't *feel* like Traveller. Another guy
>> complained that though TNE was bad, Martin's 1248 setting made things
>> worse. And on and on. It was a flood. I had to fight the urge to respond
>> to these people or drown.
>>
>> I checked the TNE section. No one had posted anything there in 75+ days.
>> We haven't had much activity here either. SFRPG has been quiet too. So has
>> everyone moved on from TNE?
>>
>> I heard a rumor over on CotI that T5 will have a new setting where the
>> timeline is advanced to the year 1900. It's far enough out that Charted
>> Space should be sufficiently recovered from the Rebellion, Collapse,
>> Empress Wave, and Black Curtain War. The tech level max is to be bumped up
>> to 20. Sentient AIs and cybernetics will be embraced (someone claimed that
>> it's in the T5 rules). I admit that I'm intrigued, but I have to wonder if
>> it will be enough to appease the haters. They'll finally have their shiny
>> new 4th Imperium and all will be as it was in 1105, except with more stuff.
>> Will they finally shut up and move on?
>>
>> \_/
>> DED
>> TNE @ Yahoo ml Admin
>>
>>
>
>
When I first came across TNE 4 or 5 years ago I was mildly interested in the setting, so much so I purchased the FFE CD set. It wasn't until I read the novels that I was hooked. I'm currently running a game with a TNE setting in Reavers' Deep but using the classic rules as I haven't had time to read TNE rules!
Thing I like about the setting is the grittiness of it all.
Brett.
---In , <dedly@...> wrote :
Hi all,
I've been over on the CotI boards these last two days (for the first time in 8 years) to try and find an answer to my question regarding the two vargr states: Ruler of Five and Opposition Alliance. I never even got around to posting my question there, which means I'm going to have to go back. Crap!
The hate for TNE lives on. Oh my goodness, there are active threads (ACTIVE!) with subjects like "Why do you hate Virus?". And people are attacking it for all the same old reasons. One guy who was just discovering the setting said that TNE didn't feel like Traveller. Another guy complained that though TNE was bad, Martin's 1248 setting made things worse. And on and on. It was a flood. I had to fight the urge to respond to these people or drown.
I checked the TNE section. No one had posted anything there in 75+ days. We haven't had much activity here either. SFRPG has been quiet too. So has everyone moved on from TNE?
I heard a rumor over on CotI that T5 will have a new setting where the timeline is advanced to the year 1900. It's far enough out that Charted Space should be sufficiently recovered from the Rebellion, Collapse, Empress Wave, and Black Curtain War. The tech level max is to be bumped up to 20. Sentient AIs and cybernetics will be embraced (someone claimed that it's in the T5 rules). I admit that I'm intrigued, but I have to wonder if it will be enough to appease the haters. They'll finally have their shiny new 4th Imperium and all will be as it was in 1105, except with more stuff. Will they finally shut up and move on?
I myself haven't been playing traveller since 2012 or something like that. I must confess that I personally feel that Traveller has been left for dead too long after the demise of GDW. When Traveller finally got picked up, the fan base was terrible fragmented. Allthough both T20 and GT kept Traveller alive it is also one of the major (IMHO) reason that the fan base really got fractured which sadly seems to have been even further splintered by T5 and MgT.
I got one of the initial T5 CD's, but did not jump on the kickstarter for the book. The T5 files on CotI confused me beyond anything before, and it did not seem that any further editing did much help for my part. I liked many of the ideas proposed in T5, but it was like reading an accounting report from a bored accountant.
I do have a few MgT books, but that is mainly because my name is mentioned in the credits.
I hope to continue my Traveller campaign, but when is a good question. I am too busy these days with my company and I am also in the process of writing my own SFRPG.
mvh
Roger Malmstein
To:
From:
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 16:59:34 -0500
Subject: [Traveller_TNE] The hate lives on
Hi all,
I've been over on the CotI boards these last two days (for the
first time in 8 years) to try and find an answer to my question
regarding the two vargr states: Ruler of Five and Opposition
Alliance. I never even got around to posting my question there,
which means I'm going to have to go back. Crap!
The hate for TNE lives on. Oh my goodness, there are active
threads (ACTIVE!) with subjects like "Why do you hate Virus?". And
people are attacking it for all the same old reasons. One guy who
was just discovering the setting said that TNE didn't feel
like Traveller. Another guy complained that though TNE was bad,
Martin's 1248 setting made things worse. And on and on. It was a flood. I had to
fight the urge to respond to these people or drown.
I checked the TNE section. No one had posted anything there in 75+
days. We haven't had much activity here either. SFRPG has been
quiet too. So has everyone moved on from TNE?
I heard a rumor over on CotI that T5 will have a new setting where
the timeline is advanced to the year 1900. It's far enough out
that Charted Space should be sufficiently recovered from the
Rebellion, Collapse, Empress Wave, and Black Curtain War. The tech
level max is to be bumped up to 20. Sentient AIs and cybernetics
will be embraced (someone claimed that it's in the T5 rules). I
admit that I'm intrigued, but I have to wonder if it will be
enough to appease the haters. They'll finally have their shiny new
4th Imperium and all will be as it was in 1105, except with more
stuff. Will they finally shut up and move on?
...like hating Bush or Reagan after all these years.
Yes, that's a good way to look at it. Whenever I encounter people like this, I always picture the guy from the College Humor skit about the fool who won't stop talking about Jar Jar Binks:
T5 moving the timeline forward is just another reset, basically. Nobody
beyond CotI actually cares about T5 though - heck, I don't think anyone
outside CotI really cares what Marc does with the game anymore. They're
still trying to fix it and make it usable even though it
was supposedly released three years ago. I doubt it'll ever be release in a
form that people will think is accessible either. So basically, just
pretend it doesn't exist.
I think most people who still like the game seem happy using Mongoose
Traveller (or whatever version they had before) for actual gaming. But I'm
not sure if anyone new is actually being attracted to the game anyway.
Oh, no! We're K'kree! All in hot, angry pursuit of the vicious carnivores!
(read as "Everybody dog pile on the current opinion to fit in.")
Too sarcastic? Too truthful?
I'll play any Traveller that _someone else_ will run. Solo is dull without real, human interaction.
On Thursday, January 14, 2016 12:04 PM, "Jason Weiser [Traveller_TNE]" <> wrote:
Sadly, this does not surprise me. T5 moving the timeline forward is just another reset, basically. Nobody beyond CotI actually cares about T5 though - heck, I don't think anyone outside CotI really cares what Marc does with the game anymore. They're still trying to fix it and make it usable even though it was supposedly released three years ago. I doubt it'll ever be release in a form that people will think is accessible either. So basically, just pretend it doesn't exist.
I think most people who still like the game seem happy using Mongoose Traveller (or whatever version they had before) for actual gaming. But I'm not sure if anyone new is actually being attracted to the game anyway. #yiv0392347122 #yiv0392347122 -- #yiv0392347122ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv0392347122 #yiv0392347122ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv0392347122 #yiv0392347122ygrp-mkp #yiv0392347122hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv0392347122 #yiv0392347122ygrp-mkp #yiv0392347122ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv0392347122 #yiv0392347122ygrp-mkp .yiv0392347122ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv0392347122 #yiv0392347122ygrp-mkp .yiv0392347122ad p {margin:0;}#yiv0392347122 #yiv0392347122ygrp-mkp .yiv0392347122ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv0392347122 #yiv0392347122ygrp-sponsor #yiv0392347122ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv0392347122 #yiv0392347122ygrp-sponsor #yiv0392347122ygrp-lc #yiv0392347122hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv0392347122 #yiv0392347122ygrp-sponsor 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*EDG: *Thanks for clarifying things. I was worried that my old
perspective of CotI was outdated, but you've verified that it isn't.
*Rupert:* I believe that your reason for not posting is probably one
shared by most people here. Your campaign sounds interesting.
*Tim: *Yeah, I picked up on the sarcasm. =) I get how there can be
haters for ex-presidents and politicians many years after they've exited
the stage as their actions affect millions/billions of lives. Even
though most people let it go, there will always be that fraction of
people that can't move on. But Traveller is just /a game/, and TNE was
but one edition of that game. To be pre-occupied with hating it after
20+ years is just pathetic.
*Brett: *I'm guessing that the "grittingness" of TNE chafed a lot of
Traveller players. It didn't bother me, and I've been playing since
1982. Well, there was the whole temper tantrum of GMs having their
little kingdoms steamrolled, too. But I won't go any further into that.
*
**Roger:* I've heard your issues with T5 voiced by many others. Please
keep us apprised of developments with your SFRPG.
*
**Christopher: *Have you tried Play by Post (PbP) or Play by email
(PBEM)? PBEM is the only way I've been able to play for the last 13+ years.
Yes.
PbP'd in a thread in CotI, a Star Wars game in a tiny, obscure offshoot of a group that hung around the Atari forum for Master of Orion III,and DM'd an AD&D campaign in the aforementioned tiny, obscure forum.
It's just not the same as gathering around a table and demolishing chip, pretzels, soda, a DM's dreams... Mwuhahaha!
On Friday, January 15, 2016 11:21 AM, "DED [Traveller_TNE]" <> wrote:
EDG: Thanks for clarifying things. I was worried that my old perspective of CotI was outdated, but you've verified that it isn't.
Rupert: I believe that your reason for not posting is probably one shared by most people here. Your campaign sounds interesting.
Tim: Yeah, I picked up on the sarcasm. =) I get how there can be haters for ex-presidents and politicians many years after they've exited the stage as their actions affect millions/billions of lives. Even though most people let it go, there will always be that fraction of people that can't move on. But Traveller is just a game, and TNE was but one edition of that game. To be pre-occupied with hating it after 20+ years is just pathetic.
Brett: I'm guessing that the "grittingness" of TNE chafed a lot of Traveller players. It didn't bother me, and I've been playing since 1982. Well, there was the whole temper tantrum of GMs having their little kingdoms steamrolled, too. But I won't go any further into that.
Roger: I've heard your issues with T5 voiced by many others. Please keep us apprised of developments with your SFRPG.
Christopher: Have you tried Play by Post (PbP) or Play by email (PBEM)? PBEM is the only way I've been able to play for the last 13+ years.
\_/
DED
TNE @ Yahoo ml Admin #yiv7460902686 #yiv7460902686 -- #yiv7460902686ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv7460902686 #yiv7460902686ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv7460902686 #yiv7460902686ygrp-mkp #yiv7460902686hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv7460902686 #yiv7460902686ygrp-mkp #yiv7460902686ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv7460902686 #yiv7460902686ygrp-mkp .yiv7460902686ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv7460902686 #yiv7460902686ygrp-mkp .yiv7460902686ad p {margin:0;}#yiv7460902686 #yiv7460902686ygrp-mkp .yiv7460902686ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv7460902686 #yiv7460902686ygrp-sponsor #yiv7460902686ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv7460902686 #yiv7460902686ygrp-sponsor #yiv7460902686ygrp-lc #yiv7460902686hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv7460902686 #yiv7460902686ygrp-sponsor #yiv7460902686ygrp-lc .yiv7460902686ad {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 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What gets me the most is their anger over the whole thing is silly. Partly
because it was a game....
And partly? Did they really think the Rebellion could end any other way. It
began with lofty dreams of restoring the Imperium...but the war got
nasty, like most civil wars do. Not to mention some of the points Dave
made a long time ago in Hard Times...the problem of the Civil War/Rebellion
required a scalpel..everybody brought a damn meat cleaver.
And let's say that one of the contenders "won"? What kind of victory, let
alone what kind of Imperium would that be? It would never really reunify,
except through force, and that promised a whole new round of wars nobody
would have been able to fight? The game was boxed into an issue of it's own
universe..slow collapse or fast? Dave and GDW ripped the band aid off and
did Traveller a favor..even if the old guard is too damn silly to see
otherwise.
On Jan 15, 2016 2:31 PM, "Christopher Snyder
[Traveller_TNE]" <
> wrote:
>
>
> Yes.
>
> PbP'd in a thread in CotI, a Star Wars game in a tiny, obscure offshoot of
> a group that hung around the Atari forum for Master of Orion III,and DM'd
> an AD&D campaign in the aforementioned tiny, obscure forum.
>
> It's just not the same as gathering around a table and demolishing chip,
> pretzels, soda, a DM's dreams... Mwuhahaha!
>
>
> On Friday, January 15, 2016 11:21 AM, "DED
> [Traveller_TNE]" <> wrote:
>
>
>
> *EDG: *Thanks for clarifying things. I was worried that my old
> perspective of CotI was outdated, but you've verified that it isn't.
>
> *Rupert:* I believe that your reason for not posting is probably one
> shared by most people here. Your campaign sounds interesting.
>
> *Tim: *Yeah, I picked up on the sarcasm. =) I get how there can be
> haters for ex-presidents and politicians many years after they've exited
> the stage as their actions affect millions/billions of lives. Even though
> most people let it go, there will always be that fraction of people that
> can't move on. But Traveller is just *a game*, and TNE was but one
> edition of that game. To be pre-occupied with hating it after 20+ years is
> just pathetic.
>
> *Brett: *I'm guessing that the "grittingness" of TNE chafed a lot of
> Traveller players. It didn't bother me, and I've been playing since 1982.
> Well, there was the whole temper tantrum of GMs having their little
> kingdoms steamrolled, too. But I won't go any further into that.
>
> *Roger:* I've heard your issues with T5 voiced by many others. Please
> keep us apprised of developments with your SFRPG.
>
> *Christopher: *Have you tried Play by Post (PbP) or Play by email (PBEM)?
> PBEM is the only way I've been able to play for the last 13+ years.
>
> \_/
> DED
> TNE @ Yahoo ml Admin
>
>
>
>
To be fair, CotI isn't the place to be if you want to talk about any version of Traveller that isn't Classic or T5. It's distinctly unwelcoming (if not downright hostile) to people who like any other version of the game. The "old guard" who love CT are usually more likely to be hostile to the changes wrought in MT and TNE (and GT), and MongT isn't really on their radar. And then there are the people who are wasting their lives on T5, though I guess fixing it has become a hobby in itself for some of them.
But you know what? Who cares. It's just the way it's always been, and I don't think anything is going to change that. T5 certainly isn't going to bring everyone together, even if Marc kills every other version of Traveller so it's the only one left (though if that happens, people will just continue playing their favourite version of the game and no new people will come into the fanbase, and it'll die out eventually).
Just play what you like, find other like-minded people to discuss things with (be it here, or on the SFRPG boards or anywhere else) and have fun with it.
Wow. Thanks for the update. While not uplifting, non-uplifting truth is
better than uplifting untruth. I have to wonder if there's maybe not one
or two haters who just keep priming the pump over there. On the other
hand, look at it this way: The haters have TNE living rent-free in their
brains. While they may think they hate Virus, they're infected themselves.
TNE gets the last laugh.
> Hi all,
>
> I've been over on the CotI boards these last two days (for the first
> time in 8 years) to try and find an answer to my question regarding the
> two vargr states: Ruler of Five and Opposition Alliance. I never even
> got around to posting my question there, which means I'm going to have
> to go back. Crap!
>
> The hate for TNE lives on. Oh my goodness, there are active threads
> (ACTIVE!) with subjects like "Why do you hate Virus?". And people are
> attacking it for all the same old reasons. One guy who was just
> discovering the setting said that TNE didn't /feel/ like Traveller.
> Another guy complained that though TNE was bad, Martin's 1248 setting
> made things worse. And on and on.It was a flood. I had to fight the urge
> to respond to these people or drown.
>
> I checked the TNE section. No one had posted anything there in 75+ days.
> We haven't had much activity here either. SFRPG has been quiet too. So
> has everyone moved on from TNE?
>
> I heard a rumor over on CotI that T5 will have a new setting where the
> timeline is advanced to the year 1900. It's far enough out that Charted
> Space should be sufficiently recovered from the Rebellion, Collapse,
> Empress Wave, and Black Curtain War. The tech level max is to be bumped
> up to 20. Sentient AIs and cybernetics will be embraced (someone claimed
> that it's in the T5 rules). I admit that I'm intrigued, but I have to
> wonder if it will be enough to appease the haters. They'll finally have
> their shiny new 4th Imperium and all will be as it was in 1105, except
> with more stuff. Will they finally shut up and move on?
>
> \_/
> DED
> TNE @ Yahoo ml Admin
>
>> It's distinctly unwelcoming (if not downright
>> hostile) to people who like any other version of the game.
Yeah, and by deliberate policy when it comes right down to it. There's an
admin over there with a hard on for me, and he went after me every time I
showed up. When the admins come after you instead of saying, "hey, play
nice," that's some pretty powerful role-modeling.
But look at it this way, COTI is the organ of and by the license holder,
and exists to advance the interests of the license holder. Any variants
created by someone other than the license holder are dealt with
accordingly, regardless of how many times the license holder says, "it's
kinda canon now, and belongs to me anyway so I can sell it."
> To be fair, CotI isn't the place to be if you want to talk about any
version of Traveller that isn't Classic or T5. It's distinctly
unwelcoming
> (if not downright hostile) to people who like any other version of the
game. The "old guard" who love CT are usually more likely to be hostile
to
> the changes wrought in MT and TNE (and GT), and MongT isn't really on
their radar. And then there are the people who are wasting their lives
on
> T5, though I guess fixing it has become a hobby in itself for some of them.
>
> But you know what? Who cares. It's just the way it's always been, and I
don't think anything is going to change that. T5 certainly isn't going
to
> bring everyone together, even if Marc kills every other version of
Traveller so it's the only one left (though if that happens, people will
just continue playing their favourite version of the game and no new
people will come into the fanbase, and it'll die out eventually).
>
> Just play what you like, find other like-minded people to discuss
things
> with (be it here, or on the SFRPG boards or anywhere else) and have fun
with it.
>
>
>
I need to modify that. I used "untruth" because "lie" sounded too grouchy.
But since "untruth" also covers novels, RPGs, etc., it's too broad, as it
would cover, "Here39;s Tolkien's latest LOTR book, and by the way, you have
cancer."
So by "untruth," I actually meant, "statement which purports to be
factual, but is in fact demonstrably non-factual and intended to be
misleading." That just sings in a sentence.
> (Re: COTI)
>
> Wow. Thanks for the update. While not uplifting, non-uplifting truth is
> better than uplifting untruth. I have to wonder if there's maybe not one
> or two haters who just keep priming the pump over there. On the other
> hand, look at it this way: The haters have TNE living rent-free in their
> brains. While they may think they hate Virus, they're infected themselves.
> TNE gets the last laugh.
>
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I've been over on the CotI boards these last two days (for the first
>> time in 8 years) to try and find an answer to my question regarding the
>> two vargr states: Ruler of Five and Opposition Alliance. I never even
>> got around to posting my question there, which means I'm going to have
>> to go back. Crap!
>>
>> The hate for TNE lives on. Oh my goodness, there are active threads
>> (ACTIVE!) with subjects like "Why do you hate Virus?". And people are
>> attacking it for all the same old reasons. One guy who was just
>> discovering the setting said that TNE didn't /feel/ like Traveller.
>> Another guy complained that though TNE was bad, Martin's 1248 setting
>> made things worse. And on and on.It was a flood. I had to fight the urge
>> to respond to these people or drown.
>>
>> I checked the TNE section. No one had posted anything there in 75+ days.
>> We haven't had much activity here either. SFRPG has been quiet too. So
>> has everyone moved on from TNE?
>>
>> I heard a rumor over on CotI that T5 will have a new setting where the
>> timeline is advanced to the year 1900. It's far enough out that Charted
>> Space should be sufficiently recovered from the Rebellion, Collapse,
>> Empress Wave, and Black Curtain War. The tech level max is to be bumped
>> up to 20. Sentient AIs and cybernetics will be embraced (someone claimed
>> that it's in the T5 rules). I admit that I'm intrigued, but I have to
>> wonder if it will be enough to appease the haters. They'll finally have
>> their shiny new 4th Imperium and all will be as it was in 1105, except
>> with more stuff. Will they finally shut up and move on?
>>
>> \_/
>> DED
>> TNE @ Yahoo ml Admin
>>
>
>
What I have absolutely never understood about our "hobby" is the level of fanaticism that seems to appear. I've got all of the editions of Traveller and I mix and match the pieces that work for me and ignore the ones that don't. I'd like to think this is a balanced perspective on a "game" that is meant to be an enjoyable experience for the participants.
I've been around long enough to have seen the flamewars over any number of different topics, and it's just utterly juvenile behavior to me. I realize that there are those individuals who have adopted a particular version of Traveller as a "religion" and in typical fashion are intolerant of those who don't share their "beliefs." That sort of behavior is just not acceptable for children, let alone adults.
In short, if a game has become your reality then you have a problem bordering on outright addiction and you need to get a life and learn to respect the opinions and perspectives of others without spiraling down into some petty, childish rant about a non-real situation.
Intolerance and hate are for small-minded people. I'd like to hope that we can all be better than that.
On 5 Feb 2016 at 8:56, [Traveller_TNE] wrote:
>
> What I have absolutely never understood about our "hobby" is the level
> of fanaticism that seems to appear. I've got all of the editions of
> Traveller and I mix and match the pieces that work for me and ignore
> the ones that don't. I'd like to think this is a balanced perspective
> on a "game" that is meant to be an enjoyable experience for the
> participants.
>
> I've been around long enough to have seen the flamewars over any
> number of different topics, and it's just utterly juvenile behavior to
> me. I realize that there are those individuals who have adopted a
> particular version of Traveller as a "religion" and in typical fashion
> are intolerant of those who don't share their "beliefs." That sort of
> behavior is just not acceptable for children, let alone adults.
>
> In short, if a game has become your reality then you have a problem
> bordering on outright addiction and you need to get a life and learn
> to respect the opinions and perspectives of others without spiraling
> down into some petty, childish rant about a non-real situation.
>
> Intolerance and hate are for small-minded people. I'd like to hope
> that we can all be better than that.
>
> But...
>
> Your Mileage May Vary...
It's common behaviour for people when it comes to hobbies. There is only one correct
scale for a model railway, and so on.
Having given this a fair amount of thought over the years (being the
target of some of this "enthusiasm"), my thoughts have included this:
The population of people who get real value, pleasure, and excitement out
of RPGs (i.e., sitting around for large portions of their lives thinking
about imaginary worlds and what happens there), is only a limited portion
of the whole population, and I think we would all accept, a minority.
As all characteristics in life are two-edged, this capacity for sustained
fantasy comes with an unnatural aversion to things that oppose our current
"what I want to imagine," as compared to our current "things I want to
imagine."
We all know that the things "I want to imagine" change over our lives, but
the issue is the INTENSITY of that desire/aversion, as that is necessary
for a person to want to play an RPG to begin with. As opposed to waiting
364 days for the next Super Bowl. From what I hear, they still play that.
As I said, I've given this a lot of thought over the years, and this is
one of my thoughts, not all of them. But today, I think it is the most
salient one. YMMV
God bless us, every one.
> On 5 Feb 2016 at 8:56, [Traveller_TNE] wrote:
>>
>> What I have absolutely never understood about our "hobby" is the level
of fanaticism that seems to appear. I've got all of the editions of
Traveller and I mix and match the pieces that work for me and ignore
the ones that don't. I'd like to think this is a balanced perspective
on a "game" that is meant to be an enjoyable experience for the
participants.
>> I've been around long enough to have seen the flamewars over any number
of different topics, and it's just utterly juvenile behavior to me. I
realize that there are those individuals who have adopted a particular
version of Traveller as a "religion" and in typical fashion are
intolerant of those who don't share their "beliefs." That sort of
behavior is just not acceptable for children, let alone adults. In
short, if a game has become your reality then you have a problem
bordering on outright addiction and you need to get a life and learn to
respect the opinions and perspectives of others without spiraling down
into some petty, childish rant about a non-real situation. Intolerance
and hate are for small-minded people. I'd like to hope that we can all
be better than that.
>> But...
>> Your Mileage May Vary...
>
> It's common behaviour for people when it comes to hobbies. There is only
one correct
> scale for a model railway, and so on.
>
>
>
"We're all crazy. Let he who is without sin in his glass house cast the
first stone."
NFL vs. Traveller, I don't think math makes ratios that small.
> Chuck, Rupert, et al.--
>
> Having given this a fair amount of thought over the years (being the
> target of some of this "enthusiasm"), my thoughts have included this:
>
> The population of people who get real value, pleasure, and excitement out
> of RPGs (i.e., sitting around for large portions of their lives thinking
> about imaginary worlds and what happens there), is only a limited portion
> of the whole population, and I think we would all accept, a minority.
>
> As all characteristics in life are two-edged, this capacity for sustained
> fantasy comes with an unnatural aversion to things that oppose our current
> "what I want to imagine," as compared to our current "things I want to
> imagine."
>
> We all know that the things "I want to imagine" change over our lives, but
> the issue is the INTENSITY of that desire/aversion, as that is necessary
> for a person to want to play an RPG to begin with. As opposed to waiting
> 364 days for the next Super Bowl. From what I hear, they still play that.
>
> As I said, I've given this a lot of thought over the years, and this is
> one of my thoughts, not all of them. But today, I think it is the most
> salient one. YMMV
>
> God bless us, every one.
>
>> On 5 Feb 2016 at 8:56, [Traveller_TNE] wrote:
>>>
>>> What I have absolutely never understood about our "hobby" is the level
> of fanaticism that seems to appear. I've got all of the editions of
> Traveller and I mix and match the pieces that work for me and ignore
> the ones that don't. I'd like to think this is a balanced perspective
> on a "game" that is meant to be an enjoyable experience for the
> participants.
>>> I've been around long enough to have seen the flamewars over any number
> of different topics, and it's just utterly juvenile behavior to me. I
> realize that there are those individuals who have adopted a particular
> version of Traveller as a "religion" and in typical fashion are
> intolerant of those who don't share their "beliefs." That sort of
> behavior is just not acceptable for children, let alone adults. In
> short, if a game has become your reality then you have a problem
> bordering on outright addiction and you need to get a life and learn to
> respect the opinions and perspectives of others without spiraling down
> into some petty, childish rant about a non-real situation. Intolerance
> and hate are for small-minded people. I'd like to hope that we can all
> be better than that.
>>> But...
>>> Your Mileage May Vary...
>>
>> It's common behaviour for people when it comes to hobbies. There is only
> one correct
>> scale for a model railway, and so on.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
On a more positive note I have found the scifi tabletop rpg called Stars
without Number has a very good system for managing factions.
The essences is you as the GM take a 'turn' at appropriate intervals and
figure out what each faction is doing to each other and for itself.
The game mechanics give you a framework and a bit of RNG for those that
feel like they don't want to always just make 'everything' up or are
willing to let the dice decide the outcome of events between factions.
On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 2:56 PM, [Traveller_TNE] <
> wrote:
>
>
> Another way of saying that is:
>
> "We're all crazy. Let he who is without sin in his glass house cast the
> first stone."
>
> NFL vs. Traveller, I don't think math makes ratios that small.
>
>
> > Chuck, Rupert, et al.--
> >
> > Having given this a fair amount of thought over the years (being the
> > target of some of this "enthusiasm"), my thoughts have included this:
> >
> > The population of people who get real value, pleasure, and excitement out
> > of RPGs (i.e., sitting around for large portions of their lives thinking
> > about imaginary worlds and what happens there), is only a limited portion
> > of the whole population, and I think we would all accept, a minority.
> >
> > As all characteristics in life are two-edged, this capacity for sustained
> > fantasy comes with an unnatural aversion to things that oppose our
> current
> > "what I want to imagine," as compared to our current "things I want to
> > imagine."
> >
> > We all know that the things "I want to imagine" change over our lives,
> but
> > the issue is the INTENSITY of that desire/aversion, as that is necessary
> > for a person to want to play an RPG to begin with. As opposed to waiting
> > 364 days for the next Super Bowl. From what I hear, they still play that.
> >
> > As I said, I've given this a lot of thought over the years, and this is
> > one of my thoughts, not all of them. But today, I think it is the most
> > salient one. YMMV
> >
> > God bless us, every one.
> >
> >> On 5 Feb 2016 at 8:56, [Traveller_TNE] wrote:
> >>>
> >>> What I have absolutely never understood about our "hobby" is the level
> > of fanaticism that seems to appear. I've got all of the editions of
> > Traveller and I mix and match the pieces that work for me and ignore
> > the ones that don't. I'd like to think this is a balanced perspective
> > on a "game" that is meant to be an enjoyable experience for the
> > participants.
> >>> I've been around long enough to have seen the flamewars over any number
> > of different topics, and it's just utterly juvenile behavior to me. I
> > realize that there are those individuals who have adopted a particular
> > version of Traveller as a "religion" and in typical fashion are
> > intolerant of those who don't share their "beliefs." That sort of
> > behavior is just not acceptable for children, let alone adults. In
> > short, if a game has become your reality then you have a problem
> > bordering on outright addiction and you need to get a life and learn to
> > respect the opinions and perspectives of others without spiraling down
> > into some petty, childish rant about a non-real situation. Intolerance
> > and hate are for small-minded people. I'd like to hope that we can all
> > be better than that.
> >>> But...
> >>> Your Mileage May Vary...
> >>
> >> It's common behaviour for people when it comes to hobbies. There is only
> > one correct
> >> scale for a model railway, and so on.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
--
If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever happened to you
would have been deserved.
I have always more or less ignored the hate there at COTI. I 'think' I am
sane and simply use the shiny bits that attract my attention and play on.
It is monumentally diffcult however to create a combat system for
spaceships using CT standards that work well for ships built under TNE
rules. and there is no easy way to convert CT skillsets to play ship combat
under TNE/Brilliant Lances. Much Handwavium is necessary to fluff it
through.
On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 5:56 PM, [Traveller_TNE] <
> wrote:
>
>
> Another way of saying that is:
>
> "We're all crazy. Let he who is without sin in his glass house cast the
> first stone."
>
> NFL vs. Traveller, I don't think math makes ratios that small.
>
>
> > Chuck, Rupert, et al.--
> >
> > Having given this a fair amount of thought over the years (being the
> > target of some of this "enthusiasm"), my thoughts have included this:
> >
> > The population of people who get real value, pleasure, and excitement out
> > of RPGs (i.e., sitting around for large portions of their lives thinking
> > about imaginary worlds and what happens there), is only a limited portion
> > of the whole population, and I think we would all accept, a minority.
> >
> > As all characteristics in life are two-edged, this capacity for sustained
> > fantasy comes with an unnatural aversion to things that oppose our
> current
> > "what I want to imagine," as compared to our current "things I want to
> > imagine."
> >
> > We all know that the things "I want to imagine" change over our lives,
> but
> > the issue is the INTENSITY of that desire/aversion, as that is necessary
> > for a person to want to play an RPG to begin with. As opposed to waiting
> > 364 days for the next Super Bowl. From what I hear, they still play that.
> >
> > As I said, I've given this a lot of thought over the years, and this is
> > one of my thoughts, not all of them. But today, I think it is the most
> > salient one. YMMV
> >
> > God bless us, every one.
> >
> >> On 5 Feb 2016 at 8:56, [Traveller_TNE] wrote:
> >>>
> >>> What I have absolutely never understood about our "hobby" is the level
> > of fanaticism that seems to appear. I've got all of the editions of
> > Traveller and I mix and match the pieces that work for me and ignore
> > the ones that don't. I'd like to think this is a balanced perspective
> > on a "game" that is meant to be an enjoyable experience for the
> > participants.
> >>> I've been around long enough to have seen the flamewars over any number
> > of different topics, and it's just utterly juvenile behavior to me. I
> > realize that there are those individuals who have adopted a particular
> > version of Traveller as a "religion" and in typical fashion are
> > intolerant of those who don't share their "beliefs." That sort of
> > behavior is just not acceptable for children, let alone adults. In
> > short, if a game has become your reality then you have a problem
> > bordering on outright addiction and you need to get a life and learn to
> > respect the opinions and perspectives of others without spiraling down
> > into some petty, childish rant about a non-real situation. Intolerance
> > and hate are for small-minded people. I'd like to hope that we can all
> > be better than that.
> >>> But...
> >>> Your Mileage May Vary...
> >>
> >> It's common behaviour for people when it comes to hobbies. There is only
> > one correct
> >> scale for a model railway, and so on.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
--
"Christmas is a time when kids tell Santa what they want and adults pay for
it. Deficits are when adults tell the government what they want and their
kids pay for it."
That's funny, I always thought that the translation of CT skills to BL was
very straightforward. Either I'm misremembering 20 years ago or I'm just
bats$%t crazy again. When I ran CT starship combat as a ref it was always
very character and skill centric, and BL felt like exactly the same deal
to me. But you know how that goes, I'm the antichrist, a liar, and a
beastiality-liking-type-guy.
> I have always more or less ignored the hate there at COTI. I 'think' I am
> sane and simply use the shiny bits that attract my attention and play on.
> It is monumentally diffcult however to create a combat system for
> spaceships using CT standards that work well for ships built under TNE
> rules. and there is no easy way to convert CT skillsets to play ship
> combat
> under TNE/Brilliant Lances. Much Handwavium is necessary to fluff it
> through.
>
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 5:56 PM, [Traveller_TNE] <
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Another way of saying that is:
>>
>> "We're all crazy. Let he who is without sin in his glass house cast the
>> first stone."
>>
>> NFL vs. Traveller, I don't think math makes ratios that small.
>>
>>
>> > Chuck, Rupert, et al.--
>> >
>> > Having given this a fair amount of thought over the years (being the
>> > target of some of this "enthusiasm"), my thoughts have included this:
>> >
>> > The population of people who get real value, pleasure, and excitement
>> out
>> > of RPGs (i.e., sitting around for large portions of their lives
>> thinking
>> > about imaginary worlds and what happens there), is only a limited
>> portion
>> > of the whole population, and I think we would all accept, a minority.
>> >
>> > As all characteristics in life are two-edged, this capacity for
>> sustained
>> > fantasy comes with an unnatural aversion to things that oppose our
>> current
>> > "what I want to imagine," as compared to our current "things I want to
>> > imagine."
>> >
>> > We all know that the things "I want to imagine" change over our lives,
>> but
>> > the issue is the INTENSITY of that desire/aversion, as that is
>> necessary
>> > for a person to want to play an RPG to begin with. As opposed to
>> waiting
>> > 364 days for the next Super Bowl. From what I hear, they still play
>> that.
>> >
>> > As I said, I've given this a lot of thought over the years, and this
>> is
>> > one of my thoughts, not all of them. But today, I think it is the most
>> > salient one. YMMV
>> >
>> > God bless us, every one.
>> >
>> >> On 5 Feb 2016 at 8:56, [Traveller_TNE] wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> What I have absolutely never understood about our "hobby" is the
>> level
>> > of fanaticism that seems to appear. I've got all of the editions of
>> > Traveller and I mix and match the pieces that work for me and ignore
>> > the ones that don't. I'd like to think this is a balanced perspective
>> > on a "game" that is meant to be an enjoyable experience for the
>> > participants.
>> >>> I've been around long enough to have seen the flamewars over any
>> number
>> > of different topics, and it's just utterly juvenile behavior to me. I
>> > realize that there are those individuals who have adopted a particular
>> > version of Traveller as a "religion" and in typical fashion are
>> > intolerant of those who don't share their "beliefs." That sort of
>> > behavior is just not acceptable for children, let alone adults. In
>> > short, if a game has become your reality then you have a problem
>> > bordering on outright addiction and you need to get a life and learn
>> to
>> > respect the opinions and perspectives of others without spiraling down
>> > into some petty, childish rant about a non-real situation. Intolerance
>> > and hate are for small-minded people. I'd like to hope that we can all
>> > be better than that.
>> >>> But...
>> >>> Your Mileage May Vary...
>> >>
>> >> It's common behaviour for people when it comes to hobbies. There is
>> only
>> > one correct
>> >> scale for a model railway, and so on.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> "Christmas is a time when kids tell Santa what they want and adults pay
> for
> it. Deficits are when adults tell the government what they want and their
> kids pay for it."
>
Hogwash and BS to your self recriminations, which are aging BTW, and need
some maintenance and better humor to stay sufficient to the task. (humorous
sarcasm here)
None here see you as public 'enema' number one, We all hold your input as
rewarding in it's own right. Few have had the privilege of holding the
honored (hot)seat that you have had. (though it seems less honored in the
retelling it seems)
Now back on topic!
It is simply a matter of perspective; for me, math has always been a
challenge, where as, putting things 'in the ballpark' through intelligent
guesstimating is second nature. thus my comment about handwavium.
On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 7:42 PM, [Traveller_TNE] <
> wrote:
>
>
> That's funny, I always thought that the translation of CT skills to BL was
> very straightforward. Either I'm misremembering 20 years ago or I'm just
> bats$%t crazy again. When I ran CT starship combat as a ref it was always
> very character and skill centric, and BL felt like exactly the same deal
> to me. But you know how that goes, I'm the antichrist, a liar, and a
> beastiality-liking-type-guy.
>
>
> > I have always more or less ignored the hate there at COTI. I 'think' I am
> > sane and simply use the shiny bits that attract my attention and play on.
> > It is monumentally diffcult however to create a combat system for
> > spaceships using CT standards that work well for ships built under TNE
> > rules. and there is no easy way to convert CT skillsets to play ship
> > combat
> > under TNE/Brilliant Lances. Much Handwavium is necessary to fluff it
> > through.
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 5:56 PM, [Traveller_TNE] <
> > > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Another way of saying that is:
> >>
> >> "We're all crazy. Let he who is without sin in his glass house cast the
> >> first stone."
> >>
> >> NFL vs. Traveller, I don't think math makes ratios that small.
> >>
> >>
> >> > Chuck, Rupert, et al.--
> >> >
> >> > Having given this a fair amount of thought over the years (being the
> >> > target of some of this "enthusiasm"), my thoughts have included this:
> >> >
> >> > The population of people who get real value, pleasure, and excitement
> >> out
> >> > of RPGs (i.e., sitting around for large portions of their lives
> >> thinking
> >> > about imaginary worlds and what happens there), is only a limited
> >> portion
> >> > of the whole population, and I think we would all accept, a minority.
> >> >
> >> > As all characteristics in life are two-edged, this capacity for
> >> sustained
> >> > fantasy comes with an unnatural aversion to things that oppose our
> >> current
> >> > "what I want to imagine," as compared to our current "things I want to
> >> > imagine."
> >> >
> >> > We all know that the things "I want to imagine" change over our lives,
> >> but
> >> > the issue is the INTENSITY of that desire/aversion, as that is
> >> necessary
> >> > for a person to want to play an RPG to begin with. As opposed to
> >> waiting
> >> > 364 days for the next Super Bowl. From what I hear, they still play
> >> that.
> >> >
> >> > As I said, I've given this a lot of thought over the years, and this
> >> is
> >> > one of my thoughts, not all of them. But today, I think it is the most
> >> > salient one. YMMV
> >> >
> >> > God bless us, every one.
> >> >
> >> >> On 5 Feb 2016 at 8:56, [Traveller_TNE]
> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> What I have absolutely never understood about our "hobby" is the
> >> level
> >> > of fanaticism that seems to appear. I've got all of the editions of
> >> > Traveller and I mix and match the pieces that work for me and ignore
> >> > the ones that don't. I'd like to think this is a balanced perspective
> >> > on a "game" that is meant to be an enjoyable experience for the
> >> > participants.
> >> >>> I've been around long enough to have seen the flamewars over any
> >> number
> >> > of different topics, and it's just utterly juvenile behavior to me. I
> >> > realize that there are those individuals who have adopted a particular
> >> > version of Traveller as a "religion" and in typical fashion are
> >> > intolerant of those who don't share their "beliefs." That sort of
> >> > behavior is just not acceptable for children, let alone adults. In
> >> > short, if a game has become your reality then you have a problem
> >> > bordering on outright addiction and you need to get a life and learn
> >> to
> >> > respect the opinions and perspectives of others without spiraling down
> >> > into some petty, childish rant about a non-real situation. Intolerance
> >> > and hate are for small-minded people. I'd like to hope that we can all
> >> > be better than that.
> >> >>> But...
> >> >>> Your Mileage May Vary...
> >> >>
> >> >> It's common behaviour for people when it comes to hobbies. There is
> >> only
> >> > one correct
> >> >> scale for a model railway, and so on.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > "Christmas is a time when kids tell Santa what they want and adults pay
> > for
> > it. Deficits are when adults tell the government what they want and their
> > kids pay for it."
> >
>
>
>
--
"Christmas is a time when kids tell Santa what they want and adults pay for
it. Deficits are when adults tell the government what they want and their
kids pay for it."
That is surely the nicest "slapping around" that I have received! :-)
Seriously, though, on the topic of CT --> BL, I had thought the
skill-centric approach was a pretty straight evolution.
However, I do realize that there were multiple editions of the LBBs
masquerading as the "same" edition, and that intervening things like High
Guard took starship combat and divorced it from skills, making it purely
into wargame CRTs. So when BL took it deliberately back to PC skills, that
may have been jarring, depending on which lash-up of previous editions,
pseudo-editions, and masquerading editions you had been using. (That is
also humorous sarcasm, to be clear. Multiple editions always make us all
do our best, with varying results!)
Dave
> Hogwash and BS to your self recriminations, which are aging BTW, and
need> some maintenance and better humor to stay sufficient to the task.
> (humorous
> sarcasm here)
> None here see you as public 'enema' number one, We all hold your input as
> rewarding in it's own right. Few have had the privilege of holding the
> honored (hot)seat that you have had. (though it seems less honored in the
> retelling it seems)
>
> Now back on topic!
>
> It is simply a matter of perspective; for me, math has always been a
> challenge, where as, putting things 'in the ballpark' through intelligent
> guesstimating is second nature. thus my comment about handwavium.
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 7:42 PM, [Traveller_TNE] <
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> That's funny, I always thought that the translation of CT skills to BL
>> was
>> very straightforward. Either I'm misremembering 20 years ago or I'm just
>> bats$%t crazy again. When I ran CT starship combat as a ref it was
>> always
>> very character and skill centric, and BL felt like exactly the same deal
>> to me. But you know how that goes, I'm the antichrist, a liar, and a
>> beastiality-liking-type-guy.
>>
>>
>> > I have always more or less ignored the hate there at COTI. I 'think' I
>> am
>> > sane and simply use the shiny bits that attract my attention and play
>> on.
>> > It is monumentally diffcult however to create a combat system for
>> > spaceships using CT standards that work well for ships built under TNE
>> > rules. and there is no easy way to convert CT skillsets to play ship
>> > combat
>> > under TNE/Brilliant Lances. Much Handwavium is necessary to fluff it
>> > through.
>> >
>> > On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 5:56 PM, [Traveller_TNE] <
>> > > wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Another way of saying that is:
>> >>
>> >> "We're all crazy. Let he who is without sin in his glass house cast
>> the
>> >> first stone."
>> >>
>> >> NFL vs. Traveller, I don't think math makes ratios that small.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > Chuck, Rupert, et al.--
>> >> >
>> >> > Having given this a fair amount of thought over the years (being
>> the
>> >> > target of some of this "enthusiasm"), my thoughts have included
>> this:
>> >> >
>> >> > The population of people who get real value, pleasure, and
>> excitement
>> >> out
>> >> > of RPGs (i.e., sitting around for large portions of their lives
>> >> thinking
>> >> > about imaginary worlds and what happens there), is only a limited
>> >> portion
>> >> > of the whole population, and I think we would all accept, a
>> minority.
>> >> >
>> >> > As all characteristics in life are two-edged, this capacity for
>> >> sustained
>> >> > fantasy comes with an unnatural aversion to things that oppose our
>> >> current
>> >> > "what I want to imagine," as compared to our current "things I want
>> to
>> >> > imagine."
>> >> >
>> >> > We all know that the things "I want to imagine" change over our
>> lives,
>> >> but
>> >> > the issue is the INTENSITY of that desire/aversion, as that is
>> >> necessary
>> >> > for a person to want to play an RPG to begin with. As opposed to
>> >> waiting
>> >> > 364 days for the next Super Bowl. From what I hear, they still play
>> >> that.
>> >> >
>> >> > As I said, I've given this a lot of thought over the years, and
>> this
>> >> is
>> >> > one of my thoughts, not all of them. But today, I think it is the
>> most
>> >> > salient one. YMMV
>> >> >
>> >> > God bless us, every one.
>> >> >
>> >> >> On 5 Feb 2016 at 8:56, [Traveller_TNE]
>> wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> What I have absolutely never understood about our "hobby" is the
>> >> level
>> >> > of fanaticism that seems to appear. I've got all of the editions of
>> >> > Traveller and I mix and match the pieces that work for me and
>> ignore
>> >> > the ones that don't. I'd like to think this is a balanced
>> perspective
>> >> > on a "game" that is meant to be an enjoyable experience for the
>> >> > participants.
>> >> >>> I've been around long enough to have seen the flamewars over any
>> >> number
>> >> > of different topics, and it's just utterly juvenile behavior to me.
>> I
>> >> > realize that there are those individuals who have adopted a
>> particular
>> >> > version of Traveller as a "religion" and in typical fashion are
>> >> > intolerant of those who don't share their "beliefs." That sort of
>> >> > behavior is just not acceptable for children, let alone adults. In
>> >> > short, if a game has become your reality then you have a problem
>> >> > bordering on outright addiction and you need to get a life and
>> learn
>> >> to
>> >> > respect the opinions and perspectives of others without spiraling
>> down
>> >> > into some petty, childish rant about a non-real situation.
>> Intolerance
>> >> > and hate are for small-minded people. I'd like to hope that we can
>> all
>> >> > be better than that.
>> >> >>> But...
>> >> >>> Your Mileage May Vary...
>> >> >>
>> >> >> It's common behaviour for people when it comes to hobbies. There
>> is
>> >> only
>> >> > one correct
>> >> >> scale for a model railway, and so on.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > "Christmas is a time when kids tell Santa what they want and adults
>> pay
>> > for
>> > it. Deficits are when adults tell the government what they want and
>> their
>> > kids pay for it."
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> "Christmas is a time when kids tell Santa what they want and adults pay
> for
> it. Deficits are when adults tell the government what they want and their
> kids pay for it."
>
On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 8:01 PM, [Traveller_TNE] <
> wrote:
>
>
> Sir!!
>
> That is surely the nicest "slapping around" that I have received! :-)
>
> Seriously, though, on the topic of CT --> BL, I had thought the
> skill-centric approach was a pretty straight evolution.
>
> However, I do realize that there were multiple editions of the LBBs
> masquerading as the "same" edition, and that intervening things like High
> Guard took starship combat and divorced it from skills, making it purely
> into wargame CRTs. So when BL took it deliberately back to PC skills, that
> may have been jarring, depending on which lash-up of previous editions,
> pseudo-editions, and masquerading editions you had been using. (That is
> also humorous sarcasm, to be clear. Multiple editions always make us all
> do our best, with varying results!)
>
> Dave
>
>
> > Hogwash and BS to your self recriminations, which are aging BTW, and
> need> some maintenance and better humor to stay sufficient to the task.
> > (humorous
> > sarcasm here)
> > None here see you as public 'enema' number one, We all hold your input as
> > rewarding in it's own right. Few have had the privilege of holding the
> > honored (hot)seat that you have had. (though it seems less honored in the
> > retelling it seems)
> >
> > Now back on topic!
> >
> > It is simply a matter of perspective; for me, math has always been a
> > challenge, where as, putting things 'in the ballpark' through intelligent
> > guesstimating is second nature. thus my comment about handwavium.
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 7:42 PM, [Traveller_TNE] <
> > > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> That's funny, I always thought that the translation of CT skills to BL
> >> was
> >> very straightforward. Either I'm misremembering 20 years ago or I'm just
> >> bats$%t crazy again. When I ran CT starship combat as a ref it was
> >> always
> >> very character and skill centric, and BL felt like exactly the same deal
> >> to me. But you know how that goes, I'm the antichrist, a liar, and a
> >> beastiality-liking-type-guy.
> >>
> >>
> >> > I have always more or less ignored the hate there at COTI. I 'think' I
> >> am
> >> > sane and simply use the shiny bits that attract my attention and play
> >> on.
> >> > It is monumentally diffcult however to create a combat system for
> >> > spaceships using CT standards that work well for ships built under TNE
> >> > rules. and there is no easy way to convert CT skillsets to play ship
> >> > combat
> >> > under TNE/Brilliant Lances. Much Handwavium is necessary to fluff it
> >> > through.
> >> >
> >> > On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 5:56 PM, [Traveller_TNE] <
> >> > > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Another way of saying that is:
> >> >>
> >> >> "We're all crazy. Let he who is without sin in his glass house cast
> >> the
> >> >> first stone."
> >> >>
> >> >> NFL vs. Traveller, I don't think math makes ratios that small.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > Chuck, Rupert, et al.--
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Having given this a fair amount of thought over the years (being
> >> the
> >> >> > target of some of this "enthusiasm"), my thoughts have included
> >> this:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The population of people who get real value, pleasure, and
> >> excitement
> >> >> out
> >> >> > of RPGs (i.e., sitting around for large portions of their lives
> >> >> thinking
> >> >> > about imaginary worlds and what happens there), is only a limited
> >> >> portion
> >> >> > of the whole population, and I think we would all accept, a
> >> minority.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > As all characteristics in life are two-edged, this capacity for
> >> >> sustained
> >> >> > fantasy comes with an unnatural aversion to things that oppose our
> >> >> current
> >> >> > "what I want to imagine," as compared to our current "things I want
> >> to
> >> >> > imagine."
> >> >> >
> >> >> > We all know that the things "I want to imagine" change over our
> >> lives,
> >> >> but
> >> >> > the issue is the INTENSITY of that desire/aversion, as that is
> >> >> necessary
> >> >> > for a person to want to play an RPG to begin with. As opposed to
> >> >> waiting
> >> >> > 364 days for the next Super Bowl. From what I hear, they still play
> >> >> that.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > As I said, I've given this a lot of thought over the years, and
> >> this
> >> >> is
> >> >> > one of my thoughts, not all of them. But today, I think it is the
> >> most
> >> >> > salient one. YMMV
> >> >> >
> >> >> > God bless us, every one.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> On 5 Feb 2016 at 8:56, [Traveller_TNE]
> >> wrote:
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> What I have absolutely never understood about our "hobby" is the
> >> >> level
> >> >> > of fanaticism that seems to appear. I've got all of the editions of
> >> >> > Traveller and I mix and match the pieces that work for me and
> >> ignore
> >> >> > the ones that don't. I'd like to think this is a balanced
> >> perspective
> >> >> > on a "game" that is meant to be an enjoyable experience for the
> >> >> > participants.
> >> >> >>> I've been around long enough to have seen the flamewars over any
> >> >> number
> >> >> > of different topics, and it's just utterly juvenile behavior to me.
> >> I
> >> >> > realize that there are those individuals who have adopted a
> >> particular
> >> >> > version of Traveller as a "religion" and in typical fashion are
> >> >> > intolerant of those who don't share their "beliefs." That sort of
> >> >> > behavior is just not acceptable for children, let alone adults. In
> >> >> > short, if a game has become your reality then you have a problem
> >> >> > bordering on outright addiction and you need to get a life and
> >> learn
> >> >> to
> >> >> > respect the opinions and perspectives of others without spiraling
> >> down
> >> >> > into some petty, childish rant about a non-real situation.
> >> Intolerance
> >> >> > and hate are for small-minded people. I'd like to hope that we can
> >> all
> >> >> > be better than that.
> >> >> >>> But...
> >> >> >>> Your Mileage May Vary...
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> It's common behaviour for people when it comes to hobbies. There
> >> is
> >> >> only
> >> >> > one correct
> >> >> >> scale for a model railway, and so on.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > "Christmas is a time when kids tell Santa what they want and adults
> >> pay
> >> > for
> >> > it. Deficits are when adults tell the government what they want and
> >> their
> >> > kids pay for it."
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > "Christmas is a time when kids tell Santa what they want and adults pay
> > for
> > it. Deficits are when adults tell the government what they want and their
> > kids pay for it."
> >
>
>
>
--
"Christmas is a time when kids tell Santa what they want and adults pay for
it. Deficits are when adults tell the government what they want and their
kids pay for it."
Factions as in political factions? Does it give you enough detail to play
satisfying consequences based on RP factions? My prior assumption would be
that the Ref would have to play the other factions to satisfy PC
expectations that other factions' responses are appropriate in detail to
things they did.
For example, "My faction rents a blimp and paints on it, "'Donald Trump is
a misspelling, it was supposed to say Donald Duck.'" And the system says
what? "X% of people are convinced that birds are running for President?"
"The opposing campaign slaps a cease-and-desist order on you?" "F-16s are
scrambled and shoot down your blimp; A which settles to the ground slowly
and embarrassingly [Helium], B explodes picturesquely, inspiring a viral
YouTube event [Hydrogen]?"
If I were the ref, I'd be thinking along the above lines, and if the
system can do that, I'm obsolete.
(I'd say "I'm obsolete anyway," but one or more Carpenters would smack me
and say, "stop sniveling." And they'd be right, but apparently I'm
oblivious. I'm getting into my White Ford Bronco.)
> On a more positive note I have found the scifi tabletop rpg called Stars
> without Number has a very good system for managing factions.
>
> The essences is you as the GM take a 'turn' at appropriate intervals and
> figure out what each faction is doing to each other and for itself.
>
> The game mechanics give you a framework and a bit of RNG for those that
> feel like they don't want to always just make 'everything' up or are
> willing to let the dice decide the outcome of events between factions.
>
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 2:56 PM, [Traveller_TNE] <
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Another way of saying that is:
>>
>> "We're all crazy. Let he who is without sin in his glass house cast the
>> first stone."
>>
>> NFL vs. Traveller, I don't think math makes ratios that small.
>>
>>
>> > Chuck, Rupert, et al.--
>> >
>> > Having given this a fair amount of thought over the years (being the
>> > target of some of this "enthusiasm"), my thoughts have included this:
>> >
>> > The population of people who get real value, pleasure, and excitement
>> out
>> > of RPGs (i.e., sitting around for large portions of their lives
>> thinking
>> > about imaginary worlds and what happens there), is only a limited
>> portion
>> > of the whole population, and I think we would all accept, a minority.
>> >
>> > As all characteristics in life are two-edged, this capacity for
>> sustained
>> > fantasy comes with an unnatural aversion to things that oppose our
>> current
>> > "what I want to imagine," as compared to our current "things I want to
>> > imagine."
>> >
>> > We all know that the things "I want to imagine" change over our lives,
>> but
>> > the issue is the INTENSITY of that desire/aversion, as that is
>> necessary
>> > for a person to want to play an RPG to begin with. As opposed to
>> waiting
>> > 364 days for the next Super Bowl. From what I hear, they still play
>> that.
>> >
>> > As I said, I've given this a lot of thought over the years, and this
>> is
>> > one of my thoughts, not all of them. But today, I think it is the most
>> > salient one. YMMV
>> >
>> > God bless us, every one.
>> >
>> >> On 5 Feb 2016 at 8:56, [Traveller_TNE] wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> What I have absolutely never understood about our "hobby" is the
>> level
>> > of fanaticism that seems to appear. I've got all of the editions of
>> > Traveller and I mix and match the pieces that work for me and ignore
>> > the ones that don't. I'd like to think this is a balanced perspective
>> > on a "game" that is meant to be an enjoyable experience for the
>> > participants.
>> >>> I've been around long enough to have seen the flamewars over any
>> number
>> > of different topics, and it's just utterly juvenile behavior to me. I
>> > realize that there are those individuals who have adopted a particular
>> > version of Traveller as a "religion" and in typical fashion are
>> > intolerant of those who don't share their "beliefs." That sort of
>> > behavior is just not acceptable for children, let alone adults. In
>> > short, if a game has become your reality then you have a problem
>> > bordering on outright addiction and you need to get a life and learn
>> to
>> > respect the opinions and perspectives of others without spiraling down
>> > into some petty, childish rant about a non-real situation. Intolerance
>> > and hate are for small-minded people. I'd like to hope that we can all
>> > be better than that.
>> >>> But...
>> >>> Your Mileage May Vary...
>> >>
>> >> It's common behaviour for people when it comes to hobbies. There is
>> only
>> > one correct
>> >> scale for a model railway, and so on.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever happened to you
> would have been deserved.
>
> On Feb 5, 2016, at 13:15, [Traveller_TNE] <> wrote:
>
> On 5 Feb 2016 at 8:56, [Traveller_TNE] wrote:
> >
> > What I have absolutely never understood about our "hobby" is the level
> > of fanaticism that seems to appear. I've got all of the editions of
> > Traveller and I mix and match the pieces that work for me and ignore
> > the ones that don't. I'd like to think this is a balanced perspective
> > on a "game" that is meant to be an enjoyable experience for the
> > participants.
> >
> > I've been around long enough to have seen the flamewars over any
> > number of different topics, and it's just utterly juvenile behavior to
> > me. I realize that there are those individuals who have adopted a
> > particular version of Traveller as a "religion" and in typical fashion
> > are intolerant of those who don't share their "beliefs." That sort of
> > behavior is just not acceptable for children, let alone adults.
> >
> > In short, if a game has become your reality then you have a problem
> > bordering on outright addiction and you need to get a life and learn
> > to respect the opinions and perspectives of others without spiraling
> > down into some petty, childish rant about a non-real situation.
> >
> > Intolerance and hate are for small-minded people. I'd like to hope
> > that we can all be better than that.
> >
> > But...
> >
> > Your Mileage May Vary...
>
> It's common behaviour for people when it comes to hobbies. There is only one correct
> scale for a model railway, and so on.
>
>
I still remember the cartoon of the Kinunir rushing back to a starport due
to an imminent rule change.
While I'm not currently running a TNE game I am looking at using the
Mongoose Character Generation system with TNEs Fire Fusion & Steel and TNEs
game mechanic.
Antony
From: []
Sent: Saturday, 6 February 2016 9:01 AM
To:
Subject: Re: [Traveller_TNE] The hate lives on
Sir!!
That is surely the nicest "slapping around" that I have received! :-)
Seriously, though, on the topic of CT --> BL, I had thought the
skill-centric approach was a pretty straight evolution.
However, I do realize that there were multiple editions of the LBBs
masquerading as the "same" edition, and that intervening things like High
Guard took starship combat and divorced it from skills, making it purely
into wargame CRTs. So when BL took it deliberately back to PC skills, that
may have been jarring, depending on which lash-up of previous editions,
pseudo-editions, and masquerading editions you had been using. (That is
also humorous sarcasm, to be clear. Multiple editions always make us all
do our best, with varying results!)
Dave
> Hogwash and BS to your self recriminations, which are aging BTW, and
need> some maintenance and better humor to stay sufficient to the task.
> (humorous
> sarcasm here)
> None here see you as public 'enema' number one, We all hold your input as
> rewarding in it's own right. Few have had the privilege of holding the
> honored (hot)seat that you have had. (though it seems less honored in the
> retelling it seems)
>
> Now back on topic!
>
> It is simply a matter of perspective; for me, math has always been a
> challenge, where as, putting things 'in the ballpark' through intelligent
> guesstimating is second nature. thus my comment about handwavium.
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 7:42 PM, [Traveller_TNE] <
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> That's funny, I always thought that the translation of CT skills to BL
>> was
>> very straightforward. Either I'm misremembering 20 years ago or I'm just
>> bats$%t crazy again. When I ran CT starship combat as a ref it was
>> always
>> very character and skill centric, and BL felt like exactly the same deal
>> to me. But you know how that goes, I'm the antichrist, a liar, and a
>> beastiality-liking-type-guy.
>>
>>
>> > I have always more or less ignored the hate there at COTI. I 'think' I
>> am
>> > sane and simply use the shiny bits that attract my attention and play
>> on.
>> > It is monumentally diffcult however to create a combat system for
>> > spaceships using CT standards that work well for ships built under TNE
>> > rules. and there is no easy way to convert CT skillsets to play ship
>> > combat
>> > under TNE/Brilliant Lances. Much Handwavium is necessary to fluff it
>> > through.
>> >
>> > On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 5:56 PM, [Traveller_TNE] <
>> > > wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Another way of saying that is:
>> >>
>> >> "We're all crazy. Let he who is without sin in his glass house cast
>> the
>> >> first stone."
>> >>
>> >> NFL vs. Traveller, I don't think math makes ratios that small.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > Chuck, Rupert, et al.--
>> >> >
>> >> > Having given this a fair amount of thought over the years (being
>> the
>> >> > target of some of this "enthusiasm"), my thoughts have included
>> this:
>> >> >
>> >> > The population of people who get real value, pleasure, and
>> excitement
>> >> out
>> >> > of RPGs (i.e., sitting around for large portions of their lives
>> >> thinking
>> >> > about imaginary worlds and what happens there), is only a limited
>> >> portion
>> >> > of the whole population, and I think we would all accept, a
>> minority.
>> >> >
>> >> > As all characteristics in life are two-edged, this capacity for
>> >> sustained
>> >> > fantasy comes with an unnatural aversion to things that oppose our
>> >> current
>> >> > "what I want to imagine," as compared to our current "things I want
>> to
>> >> > imagine."
>> >> >
>> >> > We all know that the things "I want to imagine" change over our
>> lives,
>> >> but
>> >> > the issue is the INTENSITY of that desire/aversion, as that is
>> >> necessary
>> >> > for a person to want to play an RPG to begin with. As opposed to
>> >> waiting
>> >> > 364 days for the next Super Bowl. From what I hear, they still play
>> >> that.
>> >> >
>> >> > As I said, I've given this a lot of thought over the years, and
>> this
>> >> is
>> >> > one of my thoughts, not all of them. But today, I think it is the
>> most
>> >> > salient one. YMMV
>> >> >
>> >> > God bless us, every one.
>> >> >
>> >> >> On 5 Feb 2016 at 8:56, [Traveller_TNE]
>> wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> What I have absolutely never understood about our "hobby" is the
>> >> level
>> >> > of fanaticism that seems to appear. I've got all of the editions of
>> >> > Traveller and I mix and match the pieces that work for me and
>> ignore
>> >> > the ones that don't. I'd like to think this is a balanced
>> perspective
>> >> > on a "game" that is meant to be an enjoyable experience for the
>> >> > participants.
>> >> >>> I've been around long enough to have seen the flamewars over any
>> >> number
>> >> > of different topics, and it's just utterly juvenile behavior to me.
>> I
>> >> > realize that there are those individuals who have adopted a
>> particular
>> >> > version of Traveller as a "religion" and in typical fashion are
>> >> > intolerant of those who don't share their "beliefs." That sort of
>> >> > behavior is just not acceptable for children, let alone adults. In
>> >> > short, if a game has become your reality then you have a problem
>> >> > bordering on outright addiction and you need to get a life and
>> learn
>> >> to
>> >> > respect the opinions and perspectives of others without spiraling
>> down
>> >> > into some petty, childish rant about a non-real situation.
>> Intolerance
>> >> > and hate are for small-minded people. I'd like to hope that we can
>> all
>> >> > be better than that.
>> >> >>> But...
>> >> >>> Your Mileage May Vary...
>> >> >>
>> >> >> It's common behaviour for people when it comes to hobbies. There
>> is
>> >> only
>> >> > one correct
>> >> >> scale for a model railway, and so on.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > "Christmas is a time when kids tell Santa what they want and adults
>> pay
>> > for
>> > it. Deficits are when adults tell the government what they want and
>> their
>> > kids pay for it."
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> "Christmas is a time when kids tell Santa what they want and adults pay
> for
> it. Deficits are when adults tell the government what they want and their
> kids pay for it."
>
_____
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.7357 / Virus Database: 4522/11558 - Release Date: 02/05/16
On 5 Feb 2016 at 19:43, Derek Stanley [Traveller wrote:
> I never see knock down drag out D&D fights.
>
> Derek Stanley
Over on the RPG.net forum, they have a special sub-forum for D&D and d20 games. It's
more strictly moderated than the rest of the board (which is already pretty firmly
moderated), and edition warring, even in the mildest forms, is outright prohibited. This
is because, in the day, the d20/D&D edition wars filled the rpg forum and caused
endless moderator headaches, bans, and permanent bans of otherwise reasonable
people.
So, there were (and undoubtedly still are, in the 'right39; places) D&D edition wars.
D&D3.x/Pathfinder vs D&D4 was a pretty big war, as D&D4 was quite a different beast
from what went before, and it split the fan base.
That's good background and perspective, Rupert, thanks for sharing that.
One too often knows ones own surroundings without understanding how
similar/dissimilar they are to others.
I know that when I was at GDW, employees of all the other companies (GDW,
White Wolf, West End, FASA etc.) would mock us, "Ha-ha, your fans are
insane," presenting the impression that nothing like that ever happened to
them,but there was also evidence that their fans were nuts as well. Hard
to know what to think. Except that I'll die someday. That's a safe bet.
> On 5 Feb 2016 at 19:43, Derek Stanley [Traveller wrote:
>
>> I never see knock down drag out D&D fights.
>>
>> Derek Stanley
>
> Over on the RPG.net forum, they have a special sub-forum for D&D and d20
> games. It's
> more strictly moderated than the rest of the board (which is already
> pretty firmly
> moderated), and edition warring, even in the mildest forms, is outright
> prohibited. This
> is because, in the day, the d20/D&D edition wars filled the rpg forum and
> caused
> endless moderator headaches, bans, and permanent bans of otherwise
> reasonable
> people.
>
> So, there were (and undoubtedly still are, in the 'right39; places) D&D
> edition wars.
> D&D3.x/Pathfinder vs D&D4 was a pretty big war, as D&D4 was quite a
> different beast
> from what went before, and it split the fan base.
>
>
I've recently joined a gaming group in Bandung, Indonesia. They're mostly boardgamers over here but RPGs are staying to gain traction. In my group they've started their first RPG, some fantasy game based on a computer game--which makes me feel old because in my world computer games are based on RPGs!
Anywho, since they're enjoying RPGs I the my hands up and offered to run an English language game. After offering a range of games (top heavy with GDW stuff), they settled on TNE. This last Saturday we rolled up characters and now I'm trawling all the online sites in can find for resources.
So in answer to your question, not only are diehards like us still playing TNE, hopefully we'll have a bunch of newbies enjoying one of our favourite settings in the best RPG ever.
COTI:
Be fair, there is plenty of hate to go around. ;)
Seriously, the difference in the feel between the setting of a vast 11,000 year old imperium with a frontier that has been settled for 1000 years (pre-Rebellion) and the desolate wasteland with pockets of civilization (post-Virus/Wave) are SO DIFFERENT that anyone who LOVES one is almost guaranteed to HATE the other.
The issue is that new people come along and want to talk about it again (which is fair, just because I have already had that conversation, doesn't mean they can't) so the same territory gets revisited for all the same reasons.
###
TNE:
So back to your question about preference and use.
I don't care for the TNE GAME MECHANICS and I don't really get a thrill from the history of the Third Imperium (or the Fourth), however I love the FF&S Gearhead Toolkit and I love the FEEL of the pockets of civilization surrounded by vast wilderness. So large chunks of TNE have made it into my Proto-CT PbP game on COTI.
I don't hate TNE.
I just love simple ... Rule 68A* covers 90% of everything for me.
* For anyone needing a brief explanation: roll 2d6. target is 6+ for an Easy task, 8+ for an Average task and A+ (10+) for a Hard task ... (I don't need no stinkin' tables for nuttin').
I've recently joined a gaming group in Bandung, Indonesia. They're
mostly boardgamers over here but RPGs are staying to gain traction. In
my group they've started their first RPG, some fantasy game based on a
computer game--which makes me feel old because in my world computer
games are based on RPGs!
Anywho, since they're enjoying RPGs I the my hands up and offered to run
an English language game. After offering a range of games (top heavy
with GDW stuff), they settled on TNE. This last Saturday we rolled up
characters and now I'm trawling all the online sites in can find for
resources.
So in answer to your question, not only are diehards like us still
playing TNE, hopefully we'll have a bunch of newbies enjoying one of our
favourite settings in the best RPG ever.
On 04 May 2016 04:55:26 -0700, " [Traveller_TNE]"
<> wrote:
>Seriously, the difference in the feel between the setting of a vast
>11,000 year old imperium with a frontier that has been settled for 1000
>years (pre-Rebellion) and the desolate wasteland with pockets of
>civilization (post-Virus/Wave) are SO DIFFERENT that anyone who LOVES
>one is almost guaranteed to HATE the other.
1,000 years, going on 1100, really. For the Third Imperium. If you're
including the Ziru Sirka and the Rule of Man and the Interregnum (Long
Night), then I'll grant you a probable 11,000.
My early hate-on for TNE, though, wasn't really either the rules (though
I wasn't enamored of the GDW House System; I really did prefer the CT/MT
system) or the setting /per se/; what I hated was the way they got to
the setting - too fast, and because of my career orientation and the
speed of It happening, It absolutely shattered my suspension of
disbelief.
>The issue is that new people come along and want to talk about it again
>(which is fair, just because I have already had that conversation,
>doesn't mean they can't) so the same territory gets revisited for all
>the same reasons.
That bugs me a little, too, but that's because _to_me_, it's
necroequopercution.
--
Jeff Zeitlin, Editor
Freelance Traveller
The Electronic Fan-Supported
Traveller® Fanzine and Resource
®Traveller is a registered trademark of
Far Future Enterprises, 1977-2014. Use of
the trademark in this notice and in the
referenced materials is not intended to
infringe or devalue the trademark.
Freelance Traveller extends its thanks to the following
enterprises for hosting services:
CyberNET Web Hosting (http://www.cyberwebhosting.net)
The Traveller Downport (http://www.downport.com)
On 5 May 2016 09:09, "Freelance Traveller
[Traveller_TNE]" <> wrote:
> My early hate-on for TNE, though, wasn't really either the rules (though
> I wasn't enamored of the GDW House System; I really did prefer the CT/MT
> system) or the setting /per se/; what I hated was the way they got to
> the setting - too fast, and because of my career orientation and the
> speed of It happening, It absolutely shattered my suspension of
> disbelief.
>
That's something I missed in my excitement about the setting when it was
released. Now, along with a few other issues, I see it, but thankfully with
my increasingly rapid slide into middle-age, it's not something that
bothers me much.
> Jeff Zeitlin, Editor
> Freelance Traveller
> The Electronic Fan-Supported
> Traveller® Fanzine and Resource
>
>
> http://www.freelancetraveller.com
> http://freelancetraveller.downport.com/