Thread: Re: Mass Drivers w/ guided projectiles

I wonder if you could extend the effective accuracy of mass driver projectiles by adding steering jets on the round and a basic guidance package. Otherwise you are trying to bracket the target with several rounds fired per turn.

Basically a missile relying much more on deadweight and the initial launch system, than its own internal motor.

Of course if you put a large enough fuel tank on a missile, I wonder if you can get multi-turn engagement? Obviously a laser head can't reengage, but 'contact' warheads would be able to. The enemy sees your missiles miss, sees a second volley, and then their tac witch reports the first group of missiles are coming back.

Todd Kes

--- On Tue, 6/26/12, John Potter wrote:
1 combat hex would need to be ~211km (distanced traveled for 1G in 3 minutes)

Under the Munitions section in FF&S there are special ammo for KEAP rounds
with stabilization features. The call it 'Fin Stabilized' but you can call
it what ever you like.

On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 3:42 PM, Todd Kes <> wrote:

> **
>
>
> I wonder if you could extend the effective accuracy of mass driver
> projectiles by adding steering jets on the round and a basic guidance
> package. Otherwise you are trying to bracket the target with several rounds
> fired per turn.
>
> Basically a missile relying much more on deadweight and the initial launch
> system, than its own internal motor.
>
> Of course if you put a large enough fuel tank on a missile, I wonder if
> you can get multi-turn engagement? Obviously a laser head can't reengage,
> but 'contact' warheads would be able to. The enemy sees your missiles miss,
> sees a second volley, and then their tac witch reports the first group of
> missiles are coming back.
>
> Todd Kes
>
> --- On Tue, 6/26/12, John Potter wrote:
> 1 combat hex would need to be ~211km (distanced traveled for 1G in 3
> minutes)
>
>

--
If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever happened to you
would have been deserved.

Fin stabilization is specific to armored warfare and relies on
aerodynamics. It may well be similar to adding control jets and
verniers, etc bit my hunch would be three latter as much more
complicated and needing more space to say nothing of
power/fuel/wiring, etc

---
from my T989

John Potter wrote:


Under the Munitions section in FF&S there are special ammo for
KEAP rounds with stabilization features. The call it 'Fin
Stabilized' but you can call it what ever you like.

On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 3:42 PM, Todd Kes
< <> >
wrote:

I wonder if you could extend the effective accuracy of mass
driver projectiles by adding steering jets on the round and a
basic guidance package. Otherwise you are trying to bracket the
target with several rounds fired per turn.

Basically a missile relying much more on deadweight and the
initial launch system, than its own internal motor.

Of course if you put a large enough fuel tank on a missile, I
wonder if you can get multi-turn engagement? Obviously a laser
head can't reengage, but 'contact' warheads would be able to.
The enemy sees your missiles miss, sees a second volley, and then
their tac witch reports the first group of missiles are coming
back.

Todd Kes

--- On Tue, 6/26/12, John Potter wrote:
1 combat hex would need to be ~211km (distanced traveled for 1G
in 3 minutes)




--
If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever happened
to you would have been deserved.

Fin stabilised rounds will not help in a vacuum, they would need some sort
of on-board rocket, which turns them back into missiles with much less fuel
than normal.

Antony

From: []
On Behalf Of John Potter
Sent: Wednesday, 27 June 2012 6:45 AM
To:
Subject: Re: [Traveller_TNE] Re: Mass Drivers w/ guided projectiles

Under the Munitions section in FF&S there are special ammo for KEAP rounds
with stabilization features. The call it 'Fin Stabilized' but you can call
it what ever you like.

On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 3:42 PM, Todd Kes <> wrote:

I wonder if you could extend the effective accuracy of mass driver
projectiles by adding steering jets on the round and a basic guidance
package. Otherwise you are trying to bracket the target with several rounds
fired per turn.

Basically a missile relying much more on deadweight and the initial launch
system, than its own internal motor.

Of course if you put a large enough fuel tank on a missile, I wonder if you
can get multi-turn engagement? Obviously a laser head can't reengage, but
'contact' warheads would be able to. The enemy sees your missiles miss, sees
a second volley, and then their tac witch reports the first group of
missiles are coming back.

Todd Kes

--- On Tue, 6/26/12, John Potter wrote:
1 combat hex would need to be ~211km (distanced traveled for 1G in 3
minutes)

Fins *can* help in a vacuum, as long as they are positioned within the
exhaust flow ... :)

Michael

On 27 June 2012 14:28, Antony Farrell <> wrote:

> **
>
> Fin stabilised rounds will not help in a vacuum, they would need some sort
> of on-board rocket, which turns them back into missiles with much less fuel
> than normal.****
>
> ** **
>
> Antony****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* [
> ] *On Behalf Of *John Potter
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 27 June 2012 6:45 AM
> *To:*
> *Subject:* Re: [Traveller_TNE] Re: Mass Drivers w/ guided projectiles****
>
> ** **
>
>
>
> Under the Munitions section in FF&S there are special ammo for KEAP rounds
> with stabilization features. The call it 'Fin Stabilized' but you can call
> it what ever you like.****
>
> ** **
>
> On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 3:42 PM, Todd Kes <> wrote:
> ****
>
> ****
>
> I wonder if you could extend the effective accuracy of mass driver
> projectiles by adding steering jets on the round and a basic guidance
> package. Otherwise you are trying to bracket the target with several rounds
> fired per turn.
>
> Basically a missile relying much more on deadweight and the initial launch
> system, than its own internal motor.
>
> Of course if you put a large enough fuel tank on a missile, I wonder if
> you can get multi-turn engagement? Obviously a laser head can't reengage,
> but 'contact' warheads would be able to. The enemy sees your missiles miss,
> sees a second volley, and then their tac witch reports the first group of
> missiles are coming back.
>
> Todd Kes
>
> --- On Tue, 6/26/12, John Potter wrote:
> 1 combat hex would need to be ~211km (distanced traveled for 1G in 3
> minutes)****
>
>
>

I'm pretty sure that a standard mass driver projectile does not have an
exhaust flow. Though yes placing it in the flow from a rocket will change
the exhaust vector and accordingly the rockets vector.

Antony

From: []
On Behalf Of Michael Jenkins
Sent: Wednesday, 27 June 2012 7:32 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [Traveller_TNE] Re: Mass Drivers w/ guided projectiles

Fins *can* help in a vacuum, as long as they are positioned within the
exhaust flow ... :)

Michael

On 27 June 2012 14:28, Antony Farrell <> wrote:

Fin stabilised rounds will not help in a vacuum, they would need some sort
of on-board rocket, which turns them back into missiles with much less fuel
than normal.

Antony

From: []
On Behalf Of John Potter
Sent: Wednesday, 27 June 2012 6:45 AM
To:
Subject: Re: [Traveller_TNE] Re: Mass Drivers w/ guided projectiles

Under the Munitions section in FF&S there are special ammo for KEAP rounds
with stabilization features. The call it 'Fin Stabilized' but you can call
it what ever you like.

On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 3:42 PM, Todd Kes <> wrote:

I wonder if you could extend the effective accuracy of mass driver
projectiles by adding steering jets on the round and a basic guidance
package. Otherwise you are trying to bracket the target with several rounds
fired per turn.

Basically a missile relying much more on deadweight and the initial launch
system, than its own internal motor.

Of course if you put a large enough fuel tank on a missile, I wonder if you
can get multi-turn engagement? Obviously a laser head can't reengage, but
'contact' warheads would be able to. The enemy sees your missiles miss, sees
a second volley, and then their tac witch reports the first group of
missiles are coming back.

Todd Kes

--- On Tue, 6/26/12, John Potter wrote:
1 combat hex would need to be ~211km (distanced traveled for 1G in 3
minutes)

_____

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However Antony's point is well taken because in this case the 'fins' are on
the warhead by design sequence not part of the thruster section.

However I only pointed out the warhead type because it calculations work
out whether or not aesthetically the round has 'fins' on it.

Just take the FS out of the abbreviation ;)

On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 4:32 AM, Michael Jenkins <> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Fins *can* help in a vacuum, as long as they are positioned within the
> exhaust flow ... :)
>
> Michael
>
>
> On 27 June 2012 14:28, Antony Farrell <> wrote:
>
>> **
>>
>> Fin stabilised rounds will not help in a vacuum, they would need some
>> sort of on-board rocket, which turns them back into missiles with much less
>> fuel than normal.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Antony****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *From:* [
>> ] *On Behalf Of *John Potter
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, 27 June 2012 6:45 AM
>> *To:*
>> *Subject:* Re: [Traveller_TNE] Re: Mass Drivers w/ guided projectiles****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>>
>>
>> Under the Munitions section in FF&S there are special ammo for KEAP
>> rounds with stabilization features. The call it 'Fin Stabilized' but you
>> can call it what ever you like.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 3:42 PM, Todd Kes <>
>> wrote:****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> I wonder if you could extend the effective accuracy of mass driver
>> projectiles by adding steering jets on the round and a basic guidance
>> package. Otherwise you are trying to bracket the target with several rounds
>> fired per turn.
>>
>> Basically a missile relying much more on deadweight and the initial
>> launch system, than its own internal motor.
>>
>> Of course if you put a large enough fuel tank on a missile, I wonder if
>> you can get multi-turn engagement? Obviously a laser head can't reengage,
>> but 'contact' warheads would be able to. The enemy sees your missiles miss,
>> sees a second volley, and then their tac witch reports the first group of
>> missiles are coming back.
>>
>> Todd Kes
>>
>> --- On Tue, 6/26/12, John Potter wrote:
>> 1 combat hex would need to be ~211km (distanced traveled for 1G in 3
>> minutes)****
>>
>>
>>
>

--
If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever happened to you
would have been deserved.

D'Oh, that's what I get for emailing from my iPhone, where the minutae
can easily become divorced from its context ... :S

Michael

On 27 June 2012 19:47, Antony Farrell <> wrote:
> I’m pretty sure that a standard mass driver projectile does not have an
> exhaust flow. Though yes placing it in the flow from a rocket will change
> the exhaust vector and accordingly the rockets vector.
>
>
>
> Antony
>
>
>
> From: []
> On Behalf Of Michael Jenkins
> Sent: Wednesday, 27 June 2012 7:32 PM
>
>
> To:
> Subject: Re: [Traveller_TNE] Re: Mass Drivers w/ guided projectiles
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Fins *can* help in a vacuum, as long as they are positioned within the
> exhaust flow ... :)
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
>
> On 27 June 2012 14:28, Antony Farrell <> wrote:
>
> Fin stabilised rounds will not help in a vacuum, they would need some sort
> of on-board rocket, which turns them back into missiles with much less fuel
> than normal.
>
>
>
> Antony
>
>
>
> From: []
> On Behalf Of John Potter
> Sent: Wednesday, 27 June 2012 6:45 AM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [Traveller_TNE] Re: Mass Drivers w/ guided projectiles
>
>
>
>
>
> Under the Munitions section in FF&S there are special ammo for KEAP rounds
> with stabilization features. The call it 'Fin Stabilized' but you can call
> it what ever you like.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 3:42 PM, Todd Kes <> wrote:
>
>
>
> I wonder if you could extend the effective accuracy of mass driver
> projectiles by adding steering jets on the round and a basic guidance
> package. Otherwise you are trying to bracket the target with several rounds
> fired per turn.
>
> Basically a missile relying much more on deadweight and the initial launch
> system, than its own internal motor.
>
> Of course if you put a large enough fuel tank on a missile, I wonder if you
> can get multi-turn engagement? Obviously a laser head can't reengage, but
> 'contact' warheads would be able to. The enemy sees your missiles miss, sees
> a second volley, and then their tac witch reports the first group of
> missiles are coming back.
>
> Todd Kes
>
> --- On Tue, 6/26/12, John Potter wrote:
> 1 combat hex would need to be ~211km (distanced traveled for 1G in 3
> minutes)
>