People brought a lot of axes to grind to the damage system. Some wanted
hit effects to be worse, some cited cases where it was too bad, some cited
specific real instances, some cited cinematic complaints.
In most cases it was people not applying the "whole rules," leaving out
Knockdown and Stun or the different rule for hits on NPCs.
But by the time TNE came out Frank had already been through the wringer
with the T2K fans who were harder core gun guys than Traveller players,
and really didn't want to hear it again. Frank was probably as satisfied
with the House System personal combat rules as he was with anything he had
written to that time, and thought it got it about as right as anything was
going to.
I think he might have periodically said, "use D10 if you want to, it's
your game," but he never did add the traditional flourish, "but if you do,
you're not playing AD&D!"
One that kept coming back twas all the cases where a cop and a criminal
were on two sides of the same car and emptied their pistols without ever
hitting each other, with players saying stuff like, "but that would never
happen."
Another big one was the debate over hydrostatic shock and whether it was
real or not. Back in 1993 the jury was still out more than it is now, but
naturally people writing about it were true believers and just wanted to
complain that the game didn't take their POV.
I think a lot of that stuff didn't actually result from actual RPG
sessions, but people just fiddling with the system trying to prove whether
it simulated "reality" or not.
> I remember the TML flame wars. I did like using D10 for firearms but also
> like using other dice for different circumstances, but I always recognized
> the false idea many of the complainers had WRT lethality. Shock is usually
> the biggest killer.
>
> For players, I never did instant kill anyway, but always used mortal
> wounds, coupled with chances for permanent injuries (nerve damage, limps,
> amputations etc) which I also did in my SWRPG & AD&D games
>
> - Sent from my SM-N900T
> On Apr 7, 2014 8:08 AM, <> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Since the original Traveller just had you subtract hits out of your
>> stats,
>> people moving over to TNE might not have caught that. But we actually
>> got
>> the most letters from T2K players who wouldn't have the same excuse.
>> They
>> also mostly wanted to argue about point-blank pistol shoot-outs which
>> was
>> also a different issue in addition.
>>
>> > probably didn't catch on to that back in the day
>> > didn't send any letters, but its good to know
>> > Tim
>> > On Monday, April 7, 2014 1:08 AM, ""
>> > <> wrote:
>> >
>> > Â
>> >>Derek is correct, DV = dice of personnel damage, except if it's a
>> laser.
>> >>
>> >>TNE/House system had a dynamic that could look confusing until you got
>> >>used to it, across the transition from personnel-scale damage to
>> vehicle
>> >>scale damage where there was penetration value and penetration rating.
>> We
>> >>tried to get rid of this over time by just expanding it to PV at each
>> >>range.
>> >>
>> >>Here's an important thing to remember about House Rules damage. You
>> have
>> >>to use ALL of the effects rules, including Knockdown and Stun. We got
>> >>letters all the time from T2K saying it didn't do enough damage, but
>> >> these
>> >>players weren't using Knockdown and Stun, so of course it didn't seem
>> to
>> >>do much. Some of that may have been caused by the fact that Wound
>> Effects
>> >>was on a different page from calculating damage, but it's all part of
>> the
>> >>same rule.
>> >>
>> >>> Iirc i'm at a 7 year olds birthday. The 6 armor absorbs 6 dice of
>> dmg
>> >>> and
>> >>> the remaining 4d6 apply to the test subject within.
>> >>>
>> >>> Derek Stanley
>> >>> Sent from my iPhone...
>> >>>
>> >>>> On Apr 5, 2014, at 14:38, <> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> In amongst all these setting questions, I wanted to get Dave and
>> the
>> >>>> groups' advice on some rules questions that have long bugged me. I
>> >>>> still struggle to work with the various Pen rating, pen value,
>> damage,
>> >>>> damage value distinctions introduced in TNE. Below is a question
>> >>>> someone else asked long ago, but it is a question I never quite got
>> to
>> >>>> the bottom of:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> You know, that brings up a question I've had ever since I got the
>> >>>> original FFS: In the instances of KEAP warheads and Lasers, there
>> are
>> >>>> two values: Damage (emphatically purported to be against "soft"
>> >>>> targets
>> >>>> only) and DV (which is used against armored targets).
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Now generally, when I'm making a multi-cm gun, it's not going to be
>> >>>> used
>> >>>> against "soft" targets. But if it was, it would probably vaporize
>> >>>> whoever it hit. The Damage and DV may or may not say that, but you
>> get
>> >>>> hit by a 1 inch shell and you're not going to wake up in the
>> morning.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> All right, so here's where it's really tricky. Say I'm shooting at
>> >>>> some
>> >>>> one wearing battledress. Let's say my gun has a DV of 10 (with
>> pen1)
>> >>>> and
>> >>>> the armor is only AV6. So, that 4 points of DV that's left; what
>> does
>> >>>> it
>> >>>> to to the meat-bag? Do I apply a 4/10 multiplier to the "soft"
>> Damage
>> >>>> and use that to hit the target, or do I use those 4 points in some
>> >>>> other
>> >>>> way, like maybe directly? (And if I do it that way, wow does that
>> make
>> >>>> the gun rather wimpy!)
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>
>>
>