Thread: Re: KKM experiment

So having done the math it would appear there isn't much hope for a KKM to
be effective in TNE's abstract combat system. The ranges are just to great
and HEPlaR simply can't get you to your target fast enough to
be meaningful.

I should note however given the weapons simply 'slug with a motor' in space
no PD worth mentioning could destroy it. It simply has to many centimeters
of BSD to destroy it with a PD laser in a single hit or deal damage to it
effectively over time.

In essence with TNE's abstract star ship combat any weapon with an
effective speed of slower than light (lasers or particle weapons) is pretty
much ineffectual.

If my 2tn missile with 26G thrust did hit your ship it wouldn't be simply
major and minor hits however it would be catastrophic.

If my math was right it would take it 3 combat turns to cover a single
combat band 30k of distance. The distances at which space combat takes
place makes this prohibitively slow with HEPlaR as the only effective
method of cost efficient thrust production.

I did my construction all with the Space Missile design sequence rules at
the end of the Munitions section of FF&S v2. I can offer my number
crunching feel free to ask.

However in TNE based on the rules its simply not effective because its slow.

--
If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever happened to you
would have been deserved.

In TNE combat if you want 'slow' weapons, mass drivers, kk missiles to be
effective you may need to change the scale.

First change combat rounds to something like 3 minutes which will reduce hex
sizes too.

Second dump gravitic focussing for lasers to bring their ranges down.

Linked to this you need to adjust the ranges of PAs an meson guns to match.

At this point things like Mass Drivers and possibly your plasma and fusion
weapons become useable in space combat again. Havn't worked it out but how
far would your 26G missile travel in 3 minutes and what would be its impact
energy?

Antony

From: []
On Behalf Of John Potter
Sent: Wednesday, 27 June 2012 12:00 AM
To:
Subject: Re: [Traveller_TNE] KKM experiment

So having done the math it would appear there isn't much hope for a KKM to
be effective in TNE's abstract combat system. The ranges are just to great
and HEPlaR simply can't get you to your target fast enough to be meaningful.

I should note however given the weapons simply 'slug with a motor' in space
no PD worth mentioning could destroy it. It simply has to many centimeters
of BSD to destroy it with a PD laser in a single hit or deal damage to it
effectively over time.

In essence with TNE's abstract star ship combat any weapon with an effective
speed of slower than light (lasers or particle weapons) is pretty much
ineffectual.

If my 2tn missile with 26G thrust did hit your ship it wouldn't be simply
major and minor hits however it would be catastrophic.

If my math was right it would take it 3 combat turns to cover a single
combat band 30k of distance. The distances at which space combat takes place
makes this prohibitively slow with HEPlaR as the only effective method of
cost efficient thrust production.

I did my construction all with the Space Missile design sequence rules at
the end of the Munitions section of FF&S v2. I can offer my number crunching
feel free to ask.

However in TNE based on the rules its simply not effective because its slow.

--
If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever happened to you
would have been deserved.

_____

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2178 / Virus Database: 2437/5093 - Release Date: 06/25/12

I know it is not TNE but in another book I read of one of the Navys setting up
satellite/mine that was basically a MD that was activated by passive sensors and
began chucking rocks at unfriendlies.

________________________________
From: Antony Farrell
Sent: Tue, June 26, 2012 11:13:25 AM
Subject: RE: [Traveller_TNE] KKM experiment

In TNE combat if you want ‘slow’ weapons, mass drivers, kk missiles to be
effective you may need to change the scale.
First change combat rounds to something like 3 minutes which will reduce hex
sizes too.
Second dump gravitic focussing for lasers to bring their ranges down.
Linked to this you need to adjust the ranges of PAs an meson guns to match.

At this point things like Mass Drivers and possibly your plasma and fusion
weapons become useable in space combat again. Havn’t worked it out but how far
would your 26G missile travel in 3 minutes and what would be its impact energy?

Antony

From: [] On
Behalf Of John Potter
Sent: Wednesday, 27 June 2012 12:00 AM
To:
Subject: Re: [Traveller_TNE] KKM experiment


So having done the math it would appear there isn't much hope for a KKM to be
effective in TNE's abstract combat system. The ranges are just to great and
HEPlaR simply can't get you to your target fast enough to be meaningful.

I should note however given the weapons simply 'slug with a motor' in space no
PD worth mentioning could destroy it. It simply has to many centimeters of BSD
to destroy it with a PD laser in a single hit or deal damage to it effectively
over time.

In essence with TNE's abstract star ship combat any weapon with an effective
speed of slower than light (lasers or particle weapons) is pretty much
ineffectual.

If my 2tn missile with 26G thrust did hit your ship it wouldn't be simply major
and minor hits however it would be catastrophic.

If my math was right it would take it 3 combat turns to cover a single combat
band 30k of distance. The distances at which space combat takes place makes this
prohibitively slow with HEPlaR as the only effective method of cost efficient
thrust production.

I did my construction all with the Space Missile design sequence rules at the
end of the Munitions section of FF&S v2. I can offer my number crunching feel
free to ask.

However in TNE based on the rules its simply not effective because its slow.

--
If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever happened to you would
have been deserved.

________________________________

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2178 / Virus Database: 2437/5093 - Release Date: 06/25/12

That was something I created, might be on the BARD site. My basic premise was something small and passive that you stuck in orbit to sit and wait. Because you didn't have to worry about the rounds burning up in atmo you could go with some silly velocities in the rounds.

Vengeance Platform rings a bell, it was kind of the Solomani version of unlimited submarine warfare.

Derek Stanley
Sent from my iPhone...

On 2012-06-26, at 9:20, Charles Popp <> wrote:

> I know it is not TNE but in another book I read of one of the Navys setting up satellite/mine that was basically a MD that was activated by passive sensors and began chucking rocks at unfriendlies.
>
>
> From: Antony Farrell <>
> To:
> Sent: Tue, June 26, 2012 11:13:25 AM
> Subject: RE: [Traveller_TNE] KKM experiment
>
>
> In TNE combat if you want ‘slow’ weapons, mass drivers, kk missiles to be effective you may need to change the scale.
>
> First change combat rounds to something like 3 minutes which will reduce hex sizes too.
>
> Second dump gravitic focussing for lasers to bring their ranges down.
>
> Linked to this you need to adjust the ranges of PAs an meson guns to match.
>
>
>
> At this point things like Mass Drivers and possibly your plasma and fusion weapons become useable in space combat again. Havn’t worked it out but how far would your 26G missile travel in 3 minutes and what would be its impact energy?
>
>
>
> Antony
>
>
>
> From: [] On Behalf Of John Potter
> Sent: Wednesday, 27 June 2012 12:00 AM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [Traveller_TNE] KKM experiment
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> So having done the math it would appear there isn't much hope for a KKM to be effective in TNE's abstract combat system. The ranges are just to great and HEPlaR simply can't get you to your target fast enough to be meaningful.
>
>
>
> I should note however given the weapons simply 'slug with a motor' in space no PD worth mentioning could destroy it. It simply has to many centimeters of BSD to destroy it with a PD laser in a single hit or deal damage to it effectively over time.
>
>
>
> In essence with TNE's abstract star ship combat any weapon with an effective speed of slower than light (lasers or particle weapons) is pretty much ineffectual.
>
>
>
> If my 2tn missile with 26G thrust did hit your ship it wouldn't be simply major and minor hits however it would be catastrophic.
>
>
>
> If my math was right it would take it 3 combat turns to cover a single combat band 30k of distance. The distances at which space combat takes place makes this prohibitively slow with HEPlaR as the only effective method of cost efficient thrust production.
>
>
>
> I did my construction all with the Space Missile design sequence rules at the end of the Munitions section of FF&S v2. I can offer my number crunching feel free to ask.
>
>
>
> However in TNE based on the rules its simply not effective because its slow.
>
>
>
> --
> If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever happened to you would have been deserved.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.2178 / Virus Database: 2437/5093 - Release Date: 06/25/12
>
>

I should note that the missile I designed was not the standard 7m cu
version that all TNE standard missile turrets use. it was 1/3 that size so
its conceivable I could put more engine on it to increase its G rating
which in turn would make it faster but at most I feel I could only get it
to 1 combat band (30k) per combat turn (30 min) which equates to 10km per
min.

However I will have to tinker with the numbers to see how that falls out.

On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 9:32 AM, DEREK STANLEY <> wrote:

> **
>
>
> That was something I created, might be on the BARD site. My basic premise
> was something small and passive that you stuck in orbit to sit and wait.
> Because you didn't have to worry about the rounds burning up in atmo you
> could go with some silly velocities in the rounds.
>
> Vengeance Platform rings a bell, it was kind of the Solomani version of
> unlimited submarine warfare.
>
> Derek Stanley
> Sent from my iPhone...
>
> On 2012-06-26, at 9:20, Charles Popp <> wrote:
>
>
>
> I know it is not TNE but in another book I read of one of the Navys
> setting up satellite/mine that was basically a MD that was activated by
> passive sensors and began chucking rocks at unfriendlies.
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Antony Farrell <>
> *To:*
> *Sent:* Tue, June 26, 2012 11:13:25 AM
> *Subject:* RE: [Traveller_TNE] KKM experiment
>
>
>
> In TNE combat if you want �slow� weapons, mass drivers, kk missiles to be
> effective you may need to change the scale.
>
> First change combat rounds to something like 3 minutes which will reduce
> hex sizes too.
>
> Second dump gravitic focussing for lasers to bring their ranges down.
>
> Linked to this you need to adjust the ranges of PAs an meson guns to match.
>
>
>
> At this point things like Mass Drivers and possibly your plasma and fusion
> weapons become useable in space combat again. Havn�t worked it out but how
> far would your 26G missile travel in 3 minutes and what would be its impact
> energy?
>
>
>
> Antony
>
>
>
> *From:* [
> ] *On Behalf Of *John Potter
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 27 June 2012 12:00 AM
> *To:*
> *Subject:* Re: [Traveller_TNE] KKM experiment
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> So having done the math it would appear there isn't much hope for a KKM to
> be effective in TNE's abstract combat system. The ranges are just to great
> and HEPlaR simply can't get you to your target fast enough to
> be meaningful.
>
>
>
> I should note however given the weapons simply 'slug with a motor' in
> space no PD worth mentioning could destroy it. It simply has to many
> centimeters of BSD to destroy it with a PD laser in a single hit or deal
> damage to it effectively over time.
>
>
>
> In essence with TNE's abstract star ship combat any weapon with an
> effective speed of slower than light (lasers or particle weapons) is pretty
> much ineffectual.
>
>
>
> If my 2tn missile with 26G thrust did hit your ship it wouldn't be simply
> major and minor hits however it would be catastrophic.
>
>
>
> If my math was right it would take it 3 combat turns to cover a single
> combat band 30k of distance. The distances at which space combat takes
> place makes this prohibitively slow with HEPlaR as the only effective
> method of cost efficient thrust production.
>
>
>
> I did my construction all with the Space Missile design sequence rules at
> the end of the Munitions section of FF&S v2. I can offer my number
> crunching feel free to ask.
>
>
>
> However in TNE based on the rules its simply not effective because its
> slow.
>
>
>
> --
> If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever happened to you
> would have been deserved.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.2178 / Virus Database: 2437/5093 - Release Date: 06/25/12
>
>
>

--
If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever happened to you
would have been deserved.

Gah I hate it when I miss read something.

So my missile basic design moves faster than I thought

TNE Space Combat;

1 Range Band = 30km (1/10th a light second) <- this partition is where i
messed up
26G Thrust to 30km = 32.769 seconds (1 Lsecond in 5.4615 minutes)
1 combat turn the missile could travel ~55 range bands

Which is totally effective in the time scale for ship to ship combat.

Engagement ranges per TNE is 1d6x20 range bands.

Next how much damage this thing does at 26Gs...

On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 9:40 AM, John Potter <> wrote:

> I should note that the missile I designed was not the standard 7m cu
> version that all TNE standard missile turrets use. it was 1/3 that size so
> its conceivable I could put more engine on it to increase its G rating
> which in turn would make it faster but at most I feel I could only get it
> to 1 combat band (30k) per combat turn (30 min) which equates to 10km per
> min.
>
> However I will have to tinker with the numbers to see how that falls out.
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 9:32 AM, DEREK STANLEY <> wrote:
>
>> **
>>
>>
>> That was something I created, might be on the BARD site. My basic premise
>> was something small and passive that you stuck in orbit to sit and wait.
>> Because you didn't have to worry about the rounds burning up in atmo you
>> could go with some silly velocities in the rounds.
>>
>> Vengeance Platform rings a bell, it was kind of the Solomani version of
>> unlimited submarine warfare.
>>
>> Derek Stanley
>> Sent from my iPhone...
>>
>> On 2012-06-26, at 9:20, Charles Popp <> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I know it is not TNE but in another book I read of one of the Navys
>> setting up satellite/mine that was basically a MD that was activated by
>> passive sensors and began chucking rocks at unfriendlies.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Antony Farrell <>
>> *To:*
>> *Sent:* Tue, June 26, 2012 11:13:25 AM
>> *Subject:* RE: [Traveller_TNE] KKM experiment
>>
>>
>>
>> In TNE combat if you want �slow� weapons, mass drivers, kk missiles to be
>> effective you may need to change the scale.
>>
>> First change combat rounds to something like 3 minutes which will reduce
>> hex sizes too.
>>
>> Second dump gravitic focussing for lasers to bring their ranges down.
>>
>> Linked to this you need to adjust the ranges of PAs an meson guns to
>> match.
>>
>>
>>
>> At this point things like Mass Drivers and possibly your plasma and
>> fusion weapons become useable in space combat again. Havn�t worked it out
>> but how far would your 26G missile travel in 3 minutes and what would be
>> its impact energy?
>>
>>
>>
>> Antony
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* [
>> ] *On Behalf Of *John Potter
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, 27 June 2012 12:00 AM
>> *To:*
>> *Subject:* Re: [Traveller_TNE] KKM experiment
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> So having done the math it would appear there isn't much hope for a KKM
>> to be effective in TNE's abstract combat system. The ranges are just to
>> great and HEPlaR simply can't get you to your target fast enough to
>> be meaningful.
>>
>>
>>
>> I should note however given the weapons simply 'slug with a motor' in
>> space no PD worth mentioning could destroy it. It simply has to many
>> centimeters of BSD to destroy it with a PD laser in a single hit or deal
>> damage to it effectively over time.
>>
>>
>>
>> In essence with TNE's abstract star ship combat any weapon with an
>> effective speed of slower than light (lasers or particle weapons) is pretty
>> much ineffectual.
>>
>>
>>
>> If my 2tn missile with 26G thrust did hit your ship it wouldn't be simply
>> major and minor hits however it would be catastrophic.
>>
>>
>>
>> If my math was right it would take it 3 combat turns to cover a single
>> combat band 30k of distance. The distances at which space combat takes
>> place makes this prohibitively slow with HEPlaR as the only effective
>> method of cost efficient thrust production.
>>
>>
>>
>> I did my construction all with the Space Missile design sequence rules at
>> the end of the Munitions section of FF&S v2. I can offer my number
>> crunching feel free to ask.
>>
>>
>>
>> However in TNE based on the rules its simply not effective because its
>> slow.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever happened to you
>> would have been deserved.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2012.0.2178 / Virus Database: 2437/5093 - Release Date: 06/25/12
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever happened to you
> would have been deserved.
>

--
If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever happened to you
would have been deserved.

300,000km is 1 light second. Man would computers ever suck if light moved at 30kps. Get me my brass difference engine!

Derek Stanley
Sent from my iPhone...

On 2012-06-26, at 13:18, John Potter <> wrote:

> Gah I hate it when I miss read something.
>
>
> So my missile basic design moves faster than I thought
>
> TNE Space Combat;
>
> 1 Range Band = 30km (1/10th a light second) <- this partition is where i messed up
> 26G Thrust to 30km = 32.769 seconds (1 Lsecond in 5.4615 minutes)
> 1 combat turn the missile could travel ~55 range bands
>
> Which is totally effective in the time scale for ship to ship combat.
>
> Engagement ranges per TNE is 1d6x20 range bands.
>
> Next how much damage this thing does at 26Gs...
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 9:40 AM, John Potter <> wrote:
> I should note that the missile I designed was not the standard 7m cu version that all TNE standard missile turrets use. it was 1/3 that size so its conceivable I could put more engine on it to increase its G rating which in turn would make it faster but at most I feel I could only get it to 1 combat band (30k) per combat turn (30 min) which equates to 10km per min.
>
> However I will have to tinker with the numbers to see how that falls out.
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 9:32 AM, DEREK STANLEY <> wrote:
>
> That was something I created, might be on the BARD site. My basic premise was something small and passive that you stuck in orbit to sit and wait. Because you didn't have to worry about the rounds burning up in atmo you could go with some silly velocities in the rounds.
>
> Vengeance Platform rings a bell, it was kind of the Solomani version of unlimited submarine warfare.
>
> Derek Stanley
> Sent from my iPhone...
>
> On 2012-06-26, at 9:20, Charles Popp <> wrote:
>
>>
>> I know it is not TNE but in another book I read of one of the Navys setting up satellite/mine that was basically a MD that was activated by passive sensors and began chucking rocks at unfriendlies.
>>
>>
>> From: Antony Farrell <>
>> To:
>> Sent: Tue, June 26, 2012 11:13:25 AM
>> Subject: RE: [Traveller_TNE] KKM experiment
>>
>>
>> In TNE combat if you want ‘slow’ weapons, mass drivers, kk missiles to be effective you may need to change the scale.
>>
>> First change combat rounds to something like 3 minutes which will reduce hex sizes too.
>>
>> Second dump gravitic focussing for lasers to bring their ranges down.
>>
>> Linked to this you need to adjust the ranges of PAs an meson guns to match.
>>
>>
>>
>> At this point things like Mass Drivers and possibly your plasma and fusion weapons become useable in space combat again. Havn’t worked it out but how far would your 26G missile travel in 3 minutes and what would be its impact energy?
>>
>>
>>
>> Antony
>>
>>
>>
>> From: [] On Behalf Of John Potter
>> Sent: Wednesday, 27 June 2012 12:00 AM
>> To:
>> Subject: Re: [Traveller_TNE] KKM experiment
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> So having done the math it would appear there isn't much hope for a KKM to be effective in TNE's abstract combat system. The ranges are just to great and HEPlaR simply can't get you to your target fast enough to be meaningful.
>>
>>
>>
>> I should note however given the weapons simply 'slug with a motor' in space no PD worth mentioning could destroy it. It simply has to many centimeters of BSD to destroy it with a PD laser in a single hit or deal damage to it effectively over time.
>>
>>
>>
>> In essence with TNE's abstract star ship combat any weapon with an effective speed of slower than light (lasers or particle weapons) is pretty much ineffectual.
>>
>>
>>
>> If my 2tn missile with 26G thrust did hit your ship it wouldn't be simply major and minor hits however it would be catastrophic.
>>
>>
>>
>> If my math was right it would take it 3 combat turns to cover a single combat band 30k of distance. The distances at which space combat takes place makes this prohibitively slow with HEPlaR as the only effective method of cost efficient thrust production.
>>
>>
>>
>> I did my construction all with the Space Missile design sequence rules at the end of the Munitions section of FF&S v2. I can offer my number crunching feel free to ask.
>>
>>
>>
>> However in TNE based on the rules its simply not effective because its slow.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever happened to you would have been deserved.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2012.0.2178 / Virus Database: 2437/5093 - Release Date: 06/25/12
>>
>
>
>
>
> --
> If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever happened to you would have been deserved.
>
>
>
> --
> If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever happened to you would have been deserved.
>

So here is the gory details of my KKM for your perusal.

If your email window is wide enough it will all line up pretty I believe.

This was done using the space ship missile design sequence at the end of
the Munitions section. No ship building was needed.
---
*Kinetic Kill Missile
Tech Level 15
DV 50
Pen Rating 290
Pen Value 340
Thruster HEPlaR
Agility 12
Volume 6.5016m cu
Avg Mass 4.7582tn
Fuel 4.5m cu
G-Rating 25Gs (60 range bands per combat turn)
Fuel Use 1.5m cu per hour
Fuel End 3 hours
G-Turns 6 combat turns*

*WarHead KEAPFSDSBSD

(Kinetic Energy Armor Piercing Fin Stabilized Discarding Sabot Bonded
Superdense)
- Diameter 50cm
- Damage
- Penetration: 290 (6Mj = 42pen x 6 TLmod) (+15% for short range as round
never slows)
- Mass: 2tn (10,000kg(x0.4) = 4000kg (2tn))
- Storage Vol: 0.4m cu
- Price: 18 Cr (0.4 x 45 = 18)

Guidance Seeker
- Mass 1kg
- Volume 1 liter
- Cost 1000 CR
- AGL 12 (base 9 / TL +1 / Guidance +2)
- Sensor: HRT
-- Cost 10,000 CR
-- Mass 1kg
-- Volume 1 liter

Propellant pg 146
Tech Level 15
PowerPlant: Fusion/LHyd pg 65
- Volume: 1m cu
- MW: 6
- Mass: 2tn
- Fuel Usage 0.6m cu/year
- Cost (MCr) .2
Thruster HEPLaR pg70
- Avg Thrust 120tn (6MW) (20tn per MW)
- volume 0.6m cu (0.1kg per MW)
- mass 0.6tn (1 tn per cu volume)
- Cost(MCr) 0.006 (0.001 per MW)
- Fuel Usage 1.5m cu/hour (0.25m cu per hr per MW)
- Avg Mass 4.7582tn (Warhead + Guidance + Engine 2.6tn + (Fuel/2)*
*

(2 + 0.0002 + 2.6 + 0.158)
*
- G-Rating 25G (25.219) (60 Range Bands per combat turn) 5.6min/Lsec
- G End 3 hours (6 combat turns)
Reactor Fuel
- Volume 0.0014m cu
- Mass 0.000095tn
- Cost 0.049Cr
Reaction Mass
- Volume 4.5m cu
- Mass 0.315tns
- Cost 1575Cr

On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 1:48 PM, DEREK STANLEY <> wrote:

> **
>
>
> --
If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever happened to you
would have been deserved.

What mechanism is there for juking and evasive maneuvers?




---
from my T989

John Potter wrote:


So here is the gory details of my KKM for your perusal.

If your email window is wide enough it will all line up pretty I
believe.
This was done using the space ship missile design sequence at the
end of the Munitions section. No ship building was needed.
---Kinetic Kill Missile
Tech Level 15
DV 50
Pen Rating 290
Pen Value 340
Thruster HEPlaR
Agility 12
Volume 6.5016m cu
Avg Mass 4.7582tn
Fuel 4.5m cu
G-Rating 25Gs (60 range bands per combat turn)
Fuel Use 1.5m cu per hour
Fuel End 3 hours
G-Turns 6 combat turns
WarHead KEAPFSDSBSD

(Kinetic Energy Armor Piercing Fin Stabilized Discarding Sabot
Bonded Superdense)
- Diameter 50cm
- Damage
- Penetration: 290 (6Mj = 42pen x 6 TLmod) (+15% for short
range as round never slows)
- Mass: 2tn (10,000kg(x0.4) = 4000kg (2tn))
- Storage Vol: 0.4m cu
- Price: 18 Cr (0.4 x 45 = 18)

Guidance Seeker
- Mass 1kg
- Volume 1 liter
- Cost 1000 CR
- AGL 12 (base 9 / TL +1 / Guidance +2)
- Sensor: HRT
-- Cost 10,000 CR
-- Mass 1kg
-- Volume 1 liter

Propellant pg 146
Tech Level 15
PowerPlant: Fusion/LHyd pg 65
- Volume: 1m cu
- MW: 6
- Mass: 2tn
- Fuel Usage 0.6m cu/year
- Cost (MCr) .2
Thruster HEPLaR pg70
- Avg Thrust 120tn (6MW) (20tn per MW)
- volume 0.6m cu (0.1kg per MW)
- mass 0.6tn (1 tn per cu volume)
- Cost(MCr) 0.006 (0.001 per MW)
- Fuel Usage 1.5m cu/hour (0.25m cu per hr per MW)
- Avg Mass 4.7582tn (Warhead + Guidance + Engine 2.6tn +
(Fuel/2)
(2 + 0.0002 + 2.6 + 0.158)
- G-Rating 25G (25.219) (60 Range Bands per combat turn)
5.6min/Lsec
- G End 3 hours (6 combat turns)
Reactor Fuel
- Volume 0.0014m cu
- Mass 0.000095tn
- Cost 0.049Cr
Reaction Mass
- Volume 4.5m cu
- Mass 0.315tns
- Cost 1575Cr
On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 1:48 PM, DEREK STANLEY <
<> > wrote:


-- If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever
happened to you would have been deserved.

Once fired a missile follows the same rules for maneuvering as a normal
ship does. The evasion rules are on page 314 of the main TNE book.

On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 4:17 PM,
<>wrote:

> **
>
>
>
> What mechanism is there for juking and evasive maneuvers?
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
> from my T989
>
>
> John Potter ** wrote:
>
>
>
> So here is the gory details of my KKM for your perusal.
>
> If your email window is wide enough it will all line up pretty I believe.
>
> This was done using the space ship missile design sequence at the end of
> the Munitions section. No ship building was needed.
> ---
> *Kinetic Kill Missile
> Tech Level 15
> DV 50
> Pen Rating 290
> Pen Value 340
> Thruster HEPlaR
> Agility 12
> Volume 6.5016m cu
> Avg Mass 4.7582tn
> Fuel 4.5m cu
> G-Rating 25Gs (60 range bands per combat turn)
> Fuel Use 1.5m cu per hour
> Fuel End 3 hours
> G-Turns 6 combat turns*
>
> *WarHead KEAPFSDSBSD
>
> (Kinetic Energy Armor Piercing Fin Stabilized Discarding Sabot Bonded
> Superdense)
> - Diameter 50cm
> - Damage
> - Penetration: 290 (6Mj = 42pen x 6 TLmod) (+15% for short range as
> round never slows)
> - Mass: 2tn (10,000kg(x0.4) = 4000kg (2tn))
> - Storage Vol: 0.4m cu
> - Price: 18 Cr (0.4 x 45 = 18)
>
> Guidance Seeker
> - Mass 1kg
> - Volume 1 liter
> - Cost 1000 CR
> - AGL 12 (base 9 / TL +1 / Guidance +2)
> - Sensor: HRT
> -- Cost 10,000 CR
> -- Mass 1kg
> -- Volume 1 liter
>
> Propellant pg 146
> Tech Level 15
> PowerPlant: Fusion/LHyd pg 65
> - Volume: 1m cu
> - MW: 6
> - Mass: 2tn
> - Fuel Usage 0.6m cu/year
> - Cost (MCr) .2
> Thruster HEPLaR pg70
> - Avg Thrust 120tn (6MW) (20tn per MW)
> - volume 0.6m cu (0.1kg per MW)
> - mass 0.6tn (1 tn per cu volume)
> - Cost(MCr) 0.006 (0.001 per MW)
> - Fuel Usage 1.5m cu/hour (0.25m cu per hr per MW)
> - Avg Mass 4.7582tn (Warhead + Guidance + Engine 2.6tn + (Fuel/2)*
> *
>
> (2 + 0.0002 + 2.6 + 0.158)
> *
> - G-Rating 25G (25.219) (60 Range Bands per combat turn) 5.6min/Lsec
> - G End 3 hours (6 combat turns)
> Reactor Fuel
> - Volume 0.0014m cu
> - Mass 0.000095tn
> - Cost 0.049Cr
> Reaction Mass
> - Volume 4.5m cu
> - Mass 0.315tns
> - Cost 1575Cr
>
> On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 1:48 PM, DEREK STANLEY <> wrote:
>
>> **
>>
>>
>> --
> If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever happened to you
> would have been deserved.
>
>
>

--
If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever happened to you
would have been deserved.

I thought 4,000 kg would be 4 tons, not 2. Would this affect its design/performance, or did i trim too much and miss the other important details?

Todd Kes

--- On Tue, 6/26/12, John Potter wrote:
- Mass: 2tn (10,000kg(x0.4) = 4000kg (2tn))

Yep it will, but not drastically thanks for catching that.

Since most of my current campaign is taking place at TL14-16 in the Regency
most of my designs are going to be on the upper end of stuff.

I will stick it in the Yahoo Groups files section as I am not aware of any
other place for TNE materials that is currently being maintained and takes
UGC (user generated content).

On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 12:53 AM, Todd Kes <> wrote:

> **
>
>
> I thought 4,000 kg would be 4 tons, not 2. Would this affect its
> design/performance, or did i trim too much and miss the other important
> details?
>
> Todd Kes
>
>
> --- On Tue, 6/26/12, John Potter wrote:
> - Mass: 2tn (10,000kg(x0.4) = 4000kg (2tn))
>
>
>

--
If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever happened to you
would have been deserved.

So the performance will change to;

*Kinetic Kill Missile*
Tech Level 15
DV 50
Pen Rating 290
Pen Value 340
Thruster HEPlaR
Agility 12
Volume 6.5016m cu
Avg Mass 4.7582tn
Fuel 4.5m cu
G-Rating 18Gs (37 Range Bands a turn)
Fuel Use 1.5m cu per hour
Fuel End 3 hours
G-Turns 6 combat turns
Cost 212,593 Cr

So it vastly cheaper than the X-Ray Laser flavor and a single missile given
its Penetration Value would simply destroy a vessel that wasn't ridiculously
armored.

Where as a single Xray Laser missile with 1d6 lasers hitting a target may
or may not inflict critical damage on an opposing ship at the cost of
2.5Mcr per missile.

Also per the rules apparently you can fire 10 missiles per launcher in a
single combat turn while ammo lasts

So unless your laser PD system has a greater number of turrets than
turrets/ammo of the attacking missile boat. The defending ship is going to
be in trouble.

All this assumes I didn't mess up in my calculations some where :)

Cheers.

And I think I can say pretty definitively that non Laser Missiles really do
have a place on the space battle field in TNE from a pure efficiency stand
point. (Your settings mileage may vary)

On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 6:26 AM, John Potter <> wrote:

> Yep it will, but not drastically thanks for catching that.
>
> Since most of my current campaign is taking place at TL14-16 in the
> Regency most of my designs are going to be on the upper end of stuff.
>
> I will stick it in the Yahoo Groups files section as I am not aware of any
> other place for TNE materials that is currently being maintained and takes
> UGC (user generated content).
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 12:53 AM, Todd Kes <>wrote:
>
>> **
>>
>>
>> I thought 4,000 kg would be 4 tons, not 2. Would this affect its
>> design/performance, or did i trim too much and miss the other important
>> details?
>>
>> Todd Kes
>>
>> --
If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever happened to you
would have been deserved.