Thread: Re: Regency 1140 Naval Review: TaskRon 102

Hello...

--- In , Norma Guye <ferrosmith@...>
wrote:
>
> Background: In the aftermath of the Collapse, and
> subsequently the Rape of Trin, it became evident to
> military analysts that much of the Regency Naval
> structure was too top heavy and too centralised for
> effective response to organised Viral or Vampire
> threats. The basic line squadrons of the Navy were
> organised around heavy line units too valuable to
> waste upon smaller Vampire fleets, and too ponderous
> to bring to bear against unexpected virus incursions.
> Smaller CruRon and DesRon units were much faster and
> mobile, but were organised around rigid command
> protocols that reduced their response time, and
> increased their logistical requirements.
>
> As part of a larger reorganisation of the Navy during
> the 1130s and 40s, the Admiralty deep sixed their
> traditional DesRons in favor of a new unit called a
> Tasked Squardon or TaskRon. Unlike the heavier
> squadrons that were being made more generalised,
> TaskRons are specialised units organised into three
> different unit structures: patrol, strike and quick
> response. TR101 and 102 were the first such squadrons
> to be organised in 1137, and were assigned to the 61st
> Fleet (Ericssons Rocs). Equipment shortages prevented
> TR101 from being deployed for three years, though the
> TR102 was accepted into service with little delay.

Hello, this is Sean. I have been busy for a while, so I haven't been
around to talk on the group for a while. I hope that you understand,
I am a busy man at times.

I would like to reply to this topic to see if I can extend it. I
know that it is an old topic, but I think that this may help people.
You see, I read this topic, and I liked it. I was thinking if there
was a way to extend this topic to include other things.

Of course, other things could include what TaskRon 101 would look
like. They could also include what the three unit structures would
look like as well. Currently, the Patrol unit structure has been
done. But what about the Strike and Quick Response unit structures?
I would think that this would really help people in this board to get
a good idea of what the circa-1140 Regency Navy would look like.

If anyone would like to contribute, feel free. I will try to provide
as much help as I can, and maybe we might come up with a lot of stuff
for the Regency Navy. Of course, if no one would like to, I would be
just fine with that.

Thank you!

Sean

Interesting ... Patrol, Strike, and Quick Reaction based essentially around destroyer, or reinforced destroyer formations...
What I didn't see was what the expected role of TR101 or TR102 were... I'd want to say it was in the order listed P, S, QR but really those are on the face of it just name changes... I mean that's what DDs and CLs are for after all, and in emergencies always puts them in short supply, but here goes some thoughts...

How many DDs in a squadron? (DesRon)
what is the squadron leader a CL or CA?
What were the typical support vessels for a DesRon?
These are need to know in order to figure out how to reconfigure for the stated tasks.

I'm throwing some numbers out here w/o access to TNE cannon, tweak from there.
Old DesRon
8 DDs in a typical DesRon
1 CL as typical detached Destroyer Leader
1 DD tender per 4 - 6 DesRons assigned to fleet base or supply train
no tankers assigned
no supply vessels assigned normally, 1 per 4 DesRons at specified bases for detached patrols old typical deployment

Patrol Task Squadron
8 DDs, 1 CL or CA as leader,
DD Tender as mobile base, logistics HQ
1 dedicated med - large frieghter as logistics support
1 -2 dedicated tankers, with support craft to get raw material and purify it
(this was the choke point for Patrol TR101 the tankers had a dual role,
1. to accumulate and store fuel for the entire DesRon and
2. to accompany the DesRon on patrol and so needed to be faster than the average freighter-tanker
as such the requirement was written that these ships had to have their own small craft and ... pork it up ...}

Strike Task Squadron (TR 102)
3 DDs & 1 CL leader (escorts)
2-4 CAs (think of as heavy escorts - don't need to be much faster than the BCs)
4 BCs (heavy punch for the Strike force yet still pretty fast)
1 Tender (it's a repair ship, think of it as a purpose built frieghter)
2 Supply Ships
Tankers as needed

Quick Reaction Task Force
4 DDs
4 CLs (one designated as escort leader)
4 CAs
Possibly 1-2 BCs (TF leader)
1 fast tender, 2 fast freighters, 2 fast tankers
other attachments as needed - emphasis on fast

My thoughts from a non-naval pov, regards
Tim

________________________________
From: whassupman03
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 4:20:08 PM
Subject: [Traveller_TNE] Re: Regency 1140 Naval Review: TaskRon 102

Hello...

--- In , Norma Guye <ferrosmith@ ...>
wrote:
>
> Background: In the aftermath of the Collapse, and
> subsequently the Rape of Trin, it became evident to
> military analysts that much of the Regency Naval
> structure was too top heavy and too centralised for
> effective response to organised Viral or Vampire
> threats. The basic line squadrons of the Navy were
> organised around heavy line units too valuable to
> waste upon smaller Vampire fleets, and too ponderous
> to bring to bear against unexpected virus incursions.
> Smaller CruRon and DesRon units were much faster and
> mobile, but were organised around rigid command
> protocols that reduced their response time, and
> increased their logistical requirements.
>
> As part of a larger reorganisation of the Navy during
> the 1130s and 40s, the Admiralty deep sixed their
> traditional DesRons in favor of a new unit called a
> Tasked Squardon or TaskRon. Unlike the heavier
> squadrons that were being made more generalised,
> TaskRons are specialised units organised into three
> different unit structures: patrol, strike and quick
> response. TR101 and 102 were the first such squadrons
> to be organised in 1137, and were assigned to the 61st
> Fleet (Ericssons Rocs). Equipment shortages prevented
> TR101 from being deployed for three years, though the
> TR102 was accepted into service with little delay.

Hello, this is Sean. I have been busy for a while, so I haven't been
around to talk on the group for a while. I hope that you understand,
I am a busy man at times.

I would like to reply to this topic to see if I can extend it. I
know that it is an old topic, but I think that this may help people.
You see, I read this topic, and I liked it. I was thinking if there
was a way to extend this topic to include other things.

Of course, other things could include what TaskRon 101 would look
like. They could also include what the three unit structures would
look like as well. Currently, the Patrol unit structure has been
done. But what about the Strike and Quick Response unit structures?
I would think that this would really help people in this board to get
a good idea of what the circa-1140 Regency Navy would look like.

If anyone would like to contribute, feel free. I will try to provide
as much help as I can, and maybe we might come up with a lot of stuff
for the Regency Navy. Of course, if no one would like to, I would be
just fine with that.

Thank you!

Sean

Hello...

--- In , Tim O'Reilly <ret7army@...>
wrote:
>
> Interesting ... Patrol, Strike, and Quick Reaction based
essentially around destroyer, or reinforced destroyer formations...
> What I didn't see was what the expected role of TR101 or TR102
were... I'd want to say it was in the order listed P, S, QR but
really those are on the face of it just name changes... I mean that's
what DDs and CLs are for after all, and in emergencies always puts
them in short supply, but here goes some thoughts...
>
> How many DDs in a squadron? (DesRon)
> what is the squadron leader a CL or CA?
> What were the typical support vessels for a DesRon?
> These are need to know in order to figure out how to reconfigure
for the stated tasks.

These are good questions.

> I'm throwing some numbers out here w/o access to TNE cannon, tweak
from there.
> Old DesRon
> 8 DDs in a typical DesRon
> 1 CL as typical detached Destroyer Leader
> 1 DD tender per 4 - 6 DesRons assigned to fleet base or supply train
> no tankers assigned
> no supply vessels assigned normally, 1 per 4 DesRons at specified
bases for detached patrols old typical deployment

The old DesRons were small, but what I was suprised with was the
resources assigned to TR102 by Ferrosmith (I think that is her name.).

Her TR102 was conceived to be similar in size to what could be
conceived a small fleet. For example, the "Support Division," as she
called it, included at least 40 Empress Maravas, as well as 8 Bulk
Carriers, 8 Fleet Tankers, and other things.

Her primary patrol and communication units were flotilla-sized, and
each squadron had six of them (4 for patrol, 2 for communications).
It was rather interesting to see that. And they even had more
resources available, including marines. I am still curious as to why
a squadron would be conceived as such.

> Patrol Task Squadron
> 8 DDs, 1 CL or CA as leader,
> DD Tender as mobile base, logistics HQ
> 1 dedicated med - large frieghter as logistics support
> 1 -2 dedicated tankers, with support craft to get raw material and
purify it
> (this was the choke point for Patrol TR101 the tankers had a dual
role,
> 1. to accumulate and store fuel for the entire DesRon and
> 2. to accompany the DesRon on patrol and so needed to be faster
than the average freighter-tanker
> as such the requirement was written that these ships had to have
their own small craft and ... pork it up ...}
>
> Strike Task Squadron (TR 102)
> 3 DDs & 1 CL leader (escorts)
> 2-4 CAs (think of as heavy escorts - don't need to be much faster
than the BCs)
> 4 BCs (heavy punch for the Strike force yet still pretty fast)
> 1 Tender (it's a repair ship, think of it as a purpose built
frieghter)
> 2 Supply Ships
> Tankers as needed
>
> Quick Reaction Task Force
> 4 DDs
> 4 CLs (one designated as escort leader)
> 4 CAs
> Possibly 1-2 BCs (TF leader)
> 1 fast tender, 2 fast freighters, 2 fast tankers
> other attachments as needed - emphasis on fast

While the fleet-sized squadron conceived by Ferrosmith is curious, I
tend to think that it is interesting, because it took around three
years (If I remember correctly) to summon the resources necessary to
activate TR101. What I am saying is that maybe it was meant this
way, to provide a large squadron capable of long-range patrol,
strike, or otherwise over a wide area.

I wonder if we could somehow develop something similar. It would
probably involve utilizing Ferrosmith's post as a basis, although I
hope she won't mind. I think we'll have to ask her to use it.
Still, if we did go through with it, it would yield something that
would simulate the naval might of the Regency, and would be helpful
in a 1140 campaign.

Sean

"whassupman03" wrote:

>
> While the fleet-sized squadron conceived by Ferrosmith is curious, I
> tend to think that it is interesting, because it took around three
> years (If I remember correctly) to summon the resources necessary to
> activate TR101. What I am saying is that maybe it was meant this
> way, to provide a large squadron capable of long-range patrol,
> strike, or otherwise over a wide area.
>
> I wonder if we could somehow develop something similar. It would
> probably involve utilizing Ferrosmith's post as a basis, although I
> hope she won't mind. I think we'll have to ask her to use it.
> Still, if we did go through with it, it would yield something that
> would simulate the naval might of the Regency, and would be helpful
> in a 1140 campaign.
>
> Sean
>

Ferrosmith is a guy and his name is Peter Gray. He is no longer a
member of this ML.

I'm sure he wouldn't mind his work being utilized provided he's given
proper credit. Why else would he have posted it to a public forum?

But if you wish to talk to him, he still haunts the Silent-Tower ML,
which is accessible via:
http://mailman.silent-tower.org/listinfo/tne-rces

\_/
DED

Hello...

Sorry about the mishap. I didn't know he was a guy. When I looked at
who published the original article that was created by "Peter," it said
that the person who wrote it was "Norma Guye." Please forgive me for
the misunderstanding. I hope he isn't insulted!

Anyway, I will try to Email him to see if we can use it.

Sean

> Hello...

--- In , "whassupman03" <SPROTOKNIGHT@...>
wrote:
>
> Anyway, I will try to Email him to see if we can use it.

Hello, this is Sean, and I just Emailed him at his address at
. I will wait for him to Email me back at my
Yahoo.com Email, and I will let you know when he gives me a result. Of
course, I hope he is OK and not upset about my little mishap.

Thank you.

Sean

I modified the post below... as a minor attempt at anti-bot procedures ...

I suggest that when we are sharing another person's email we spell out the @ sign "at" and
either spell out 'dot' com/net/org/edu whatever, or if it's particularly well known such as yahoo just forgo the
end altogether.
OOT
I read recently that "Skype" users posting to or chatting with users of TOM-Skype can expect to have their conversations with the
decryption code posted to one or more of eight non-secure servers in China. The info came from a group called infowar-monitor and was
focused on Asia and China in particular which uses the TOM-Skype platform. Go figure if that's the case there that it can likely be the case
elsewhere ... your "secure" conversations are being read and recorded by others than the intended recipient.
Regards
Tim

________________________________
From: whassupman03
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 4:22:34 PM
Subject: [Traveller_TNE] Re: Regency 1140 Naval Review: TaskRon 102

> Hello...

--- In , "whassupman03" <SPROTOKNIGHT@ ...>
wrote:
>
> Anyway, I will try to Email him to see if we can use it.

Hello, this is Sean, and I just Emailed him at his address at
emptiedboat at yahoo I will wait for him to Email me back at my
Yahoo.com Email, and I will let you know when he gives me a result. Of
course, I hope he is OK and not upset about my little mishap.

Thank you.

Sean

Hello...

--- In , Tim O'Reilly <ret7army@...>
wrote:
>
> I modified the post below... as a minor attempt at anti-bot
procedures ...
>
> I suggest that when we are sharing another person's email we spell
out the @ sign "at" and
> either spell out 'dot' com/net/org/edu whatever, or if it's
particularly well known such as yahoo just forgo the
> end altogether.
> OOT
> I read recently that "Skype" users posting to or chatting with
users of TOM-Skype can expect to have their conversations with the
> decryption code posted to one or more of eight non-secure servers
in China. The info came from a group called infowar-monitor and was
> focused on Asia and China in particular which uses the TOM-Skype
platform. Go figure if that's the case there that it can likely be
the case
> elsewhere ... your "secure" conversations are being read and
recorded by others than the intended recipient.
> Regards
> Tim

Sorry about that again. I'm new to message boards, due to the fact
that I don't get to use them much. I will do that when I put an
address on, thank you.

I'm still waiting on Mr. Gray's (Is that format for a name alright?)
reply, so I will be able to check it tonight. I'm currently having
problems with my Yahoo Email account, so I hope I will have better
luck tonight. Thank you.

Sean

--- "whassupman03" wrote:
>
> Hello...
>
> Sorry about the mishap. I didn't know he was a guy. When I looked at
> who published the original article that was created by "Peter," it said
> that the person who wrote it was "Norma Guye." Please forgive me for
> the misunderstanding. I hope he isn't insulted!
>
> Anyway, I will try to Email him to see if we can use it.
>
> Sean
>

Oh, I wasn't offended. Merely correcting a misperception, that's all. :)

"Norma Guye" was just a pseudonym. A play on words for "normal guy."

As he's not on this ML, someone would have to forward him the message
in order for him to perceive the slight. Irregardless, I don't believe
that he would take offense for a harmless mistake.

\_/
DED

--- Tim O'Reilly wrote:
>
> I modified the post below... as a minor attempt at anti-bot
procedures ...
>
> I suggest that when we are sharing another person's email we spell
out the @ sign "at" and
> either spell out 'dot' com/net/org/edu whatever, or if it's
particularly well known such as yahoo just forgo the
> end altogether.

Agreed. Let's all do that for now on. I'll try to remember to add that
to the "Welcome To The List" email.

I've deleted the original post just to safe.

> OOT
> I read recently that "Skype" users posting to or chatting with users
of TOM-Skype can expect to have their conversations with the
> decryption code posted to one or more of eight non-secure servers in
China. The info came from a group called infowar-monitor and was
> focused on Asia and China in particular which uses the TOM-Skype
platform. Go figure if that's the case there that it can likely be
the case
> elsewhere ... your "secure" conversations are being read and
recorded by others than the intended recipient.
> Regards
> Tim

Ouch. If it's not too much trouble, would you please send me a link to
that offlist.

________________________________
From: whassupman03
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 4:22:34 PM
Subject: [Traveller_TNE] Re: Regency 1140 Naval Review: TaskRon 102
>
>
> > Hello...
>
> --- In , "whassupman03"
> wrote:
> >
> > Anyway, I will try to Email him to see if we can use it.
>
> Hello, this is Sean, and I just Emailed him at his address at
> emptiedboat at yahoo I will wait for him to Email me back at my
> Yahoo.com Email, and I will let you know when he gives me a result. Of
> course, I hope he is OK and not upset about my little mishap.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Sean

I sense a can of worms opening...

\_/
DED

No problem, or rather it's one I hadn't articulated on before.
Regards,
Tim

________________________________
From: whassupman03
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 9:47:42 AM
Subject: [Traveller_TNE] Re: Regency 1140 Naval Review: TaskRon 102

Hello...

--- In , Tim O'Reilly <ret7army@.. .>
wrote:
>
> I modified the post below... as a minor attempt at anti-bot
procedures ...
>
> I suggest that when we are sharing another person's email we spell
out the @ sign "at" and
> either spell out 'dot' com/net/org/ edu whatever, or if it's
particularly well known such as yahoo just forgo the
> end altogether.
> OOT
> I read recently that "Skype" users posting to or chatting with
users of TOM-Skype can expect to have their conversations with the
> decryption code posted to one or more of eight non-secure servers
in China. The info came from a group called infowar-monitor and was
> focused on Asia and China in particular which uses the TOM-Skype
platform. Go figure if that's the case there that it can likely be
the case
> elsewhere ... your "secure" conversations are being read and
recorded by others than the intended recipient.
> Regards
> Tim

Sorry about that again. I'm new to message boards, due to the fact
that I don't get to use them much. I will do that when I put an
address on, thank you.

I'm still waiting on Mr. Gray's (Is that format for a name alright?)
reply, so I will be able to check it tonight. I'm currently having
problems with my Yahoo Email account, so I hope I will have better
luck tonight. Thank you.

Sean

On 18 Nov 2008 at 16:13, dedtraveller wrote:

> > OOT
> > I read recently that "Skype" users posting to or chatting with users
> of TOM-Skype can expect to have their conversations with the
> > decryption code posted to one or more of eight non-secure servers in
> China. The info came from a group called infowar-monitor and was
> > focused on Asia and China in particular which uses the TOM-Skype
> platform. Go figure if that's the case there that it can likely be
> the case
> > elsewhere ... your "secure" conversations are being read and
> recorded by others than the intended recipient.
> > Regards
> > Tim
>
> Ouch. If it's not too much trouble, would you please send me a link to
> that offlist.

The EFF reported a few weeks back about the Chinese Skype client
being compromised *on purpose* by the Chinese company that created
it under license from Skype. Seems the Chinese government doesn't
want folks having onversations they can't tap.

http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2008/10/chinese-skype-client-hands-
confidential-communicat
--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at shadowgard dot com

Hello...

--- In , "whassupman03" <SPROTOKNIGHT@...>
wrote:
>
> I'm still waiting on Mr. Gray's (Is that format for a name alright?)
> reply, so I will be able to check it tonight. I'm currently having
> problems with my Yahoo Email account, so I hope I will have better
> luck tonight. Thank you.

This is Sean with a quick note. I got a response from Mr. Gray, but we
don't have a verdict yet. He needed to know which article we were
working on, so I sent it to him. We should have a response soon.
Thank you for your patience.

Sean

Hello...

--- In , "whassupman03" <SPROTOKNIGHT@...>
wrote:
>
> This is Sean with a quick note. I got a response from Mr. Gray, but
> we don't have a verdict yet. He needed to know which article we were
> working on, so I sent it to him. We should have a response soon.
> Thank you for your patience.

Well we got our verdict. I will copy and paste the important contents
of the letter from Mr. Gray...

In a letter sent to :

"Thank you for refreshing my memory. Talk about cobwebs in the grey
matter. I have no problem with other people reproducing my material
beyond be given credit for my authorship and use of the material in its
intended spirit. Btw some of the ships listed have been written up and
can be found in the same archive."

And as a result, we got our go-ahead. So we can now use his template
given that we give him credit for his work.

If anyone wants to see the rest of the letter, it is just a copy of
what I wrote to him. But I will still send the letter to whoever wants
the letter if you send me a request.

I guess we will start after this post. One question though: How will
we give him credit? Do we put a note into the final version? Or
something else? I just want to make sure that credit is given to where
it's due.

Well thank you for your patience. And y'all have a Happy Thanksgiving!

Sean

--- In , "whassupman03" wrote:
>
> Well we got our verdict. I will copy and paste the important contents
> of the letter from Mr. Gray...
>
> In a letter sent to SPROTOKNIGHT@...:
>
> "Thank you for refreshing my memory. Talk about cobwebs in the grey
> matter. I have no problem with other people reproducing my material
> beyond be given credit for my authorship and use of the material in its
> intended spirit. Btw some of the ships listed have been written up and
> can be found in the same archive."
>
> And as a result, we got our go-ahead. So we can now use his template
> given that we give him credit for his work.
>
> If anyone wants to see the rest of the letter, it is just a copy of
> what I wrote to him. But I will still send the letter to whoever wants
> the letter if you send me a request.
>
> I guess we will start after this post. One question though: How will
> we give him credit? Do we put a note into the final version? Or
> something else? I just want to make sure that credit is given to where
> it's due.
>
> Well thank you for your patience. And y'all have a Happy Thanksgiving!
>
> Sean

While you're just discussing the subject, you don't need to worry
about affixing credit. However, if you do any kind of formal write up,
whether here or on a web site, then just include his name among the
list of contributors. And if you feel a note is necessary explaining
that he started the thread that you're building on, then by all means
add it.

\_/
DED

Seems reasonable to me
Ret

________________________________
From: dedtraveller
Sent: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 1:57:13 PM
Subject: [Traveller_TNE] Re: Regency 1140 Naval Review: TaskRon 102

--- In , "whassupman03" wrote:
>
> Well we got our verdict. I will copy and paste the important contents
> of the letter from Mr. Gray...
>
> In a letter sent to SPROTOKNIGHT@ ...:
>
> "Thank you for refreshing my memory. Talk about cobwebs in the grey
> matter. I have no problem with other people reproducing my material
> beyond be given credit for my authorship and use of the material in its
> intended spirit. Btw some of the ships listed have been written up and
> can be found in the same archive."
>
> And as a result, we got our go-ahead. So we can now use his template
> given that we give him credit for his work.
>
> If anyone wants to see the rest of the letter, it is just a copy of
> what I wrote to him. But I will still send the letter to whoever wants
> the letter if you send me a request.
>
> I guess we will start after this post. One question though: How will
> we give him credit? Do we put a note into the final version? Or
> something else? I just want to make sure that credit is given to where
> it's due.
>
> Well thank you for your patience. And y'all have a Happy Thanksgiving!
>
> Sean

While you're just discussing the subject, you don't need to worry
about affixing credit. However, if you do any kind of formal write up,
whether here or on a web site, then just include his name among the
list of contributors. And if you feel a note is necessary explaining
that he started the thread that you're building on, then by all means
add it.

\_/
DED

Hello...

--- In , "dedtraveller" <dedly@...> wrote:
>
> While you're just discussing the subject, you don't need to worry
> about affixing credit. However, if you do any kind of formal write up,
> whether here or on a web site, then just include his name among the
> list of contributors. And if you feel a note is necessary explaining
> that he started the thread that you're building on, then by all means
> add it.
>
> \_/
> DED

It sounds fine to me too. It looks like we will follow your approach
to giving him credit - it names all of the contributors and has room
for at least one note. Thanks again for clarifying.

Sean