If you need any data out of SMC, let me know, as it's one of the things
I've dug out. The BatRon comes with some escorts as well, but I assume
they jump separately, and there are fighters carried on the Carrier.
I have always retained the original definition of BC: gunned like a BB but
longer legs, lighter armor, and bigger. So a great big, fat, expensive
liability like Jacky Fisher's originals, but oh, so romantic and oh, such
great flagships in peacetime. Much more interesting that way. Large
cruisers are just large cruisers.
> The 90k dt is also mentioned in the MT Ref's Companion. IMTU, the 90k jobs
> were considered a BB in their day (probably more of a BC but that's
> neither
> here nor there) but this perspective would definitely have originated with
> hindsight of the late 3I. IMTU/YMMV etc etc. At least that's my retcon
> since I really just forgot about it when I compiled this. :D
>
> Glad you like it Dave. Yes, the Lurentian is from SMC. I don't have it
> but heard enough about it. Didn't have it in my original draft but was
> trying to be complete. Guess I forgot about the MTRC/T4 90k thing, though
> and should probably toss the reference to the Lurentian since I was only
> really interested in the big BB's and not doing hundreds of entries for
> escort and cruiser evolution. ;)
>
> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 10:27 PM, Antony Farrell
> <>wrote:
>
>> **
>>
>>
>> I also looked at the evolution of the Shattered Designs, but I posited
>> that they were all third imperium designs. The reason came indirectly
>> from
>> T4s Coronation class battleships which were only 90,000 dt. These
>> presumably date from towards the end of the Sylean Federation and its
>> evolution into the early Third Imperium. They were also TL12 designs.
>> Now I
>> am assuming that since the Federation was smallers its fleet would have
>> had
>> a more consistent TL structure (TL12). In later periods the Coronation
>> would probably have been downgraded to heavy cruisers.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I did convert a number of the ships to TNE as well as other designs from
>> my Banners Sector game. You can find my interpretations at****
>>
>> http://www.skaran.net/bannerscampaign/equipment/craft/craft.html****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Antony****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *From:* [
>> ] *On Behalf Of *Master Uxi
>> *Sent:* Friday, 13 July 2012 12:48 PM
>> *To:*
>> *Subject:* [Traveller_TNE] Capital Ship Lineage of the Third
>> Imperium****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>>
>>
>> I actually did find a use for Shattered Ships of the Third Imperium once
>> upon a time. While it's designs were worthless for multiple reasons
>> (not
>> the least of which was the MT system, but also the pure incoherence of
>> many
>> of them). I didn't even really like the art... but it's prose on the
>> evolution of the capital ships in the 3I still resonates as a silver
>> lining
>> on an otherwise dark cloud. Combined with CT Supplement 9 and TNE's
>> Battle Rider, the rough piece of charcoal is capable of some small
>> amount
>> of polish. With the outline of the lineage from Shattered Ships of the
>> Imperium, I was able to conjecture some nice ideas (I'm rather fond of
>> the
>> Panthera and have ideas for using them coming out of the Black Curtain
>> with
>> PO'ed Cyber-Centaurs and their Meta-identity Eater Overlords.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Using CT Supplement 9, Supplement 5, MT Fighting Ships of the Shattered
>> Imperium, and TNE Battle Rider****
>> Third Imperium Capital Ships****
>>
>> - BB-11. 300kt, J2G2. Sylean Federation Federation-class Battleship
>> from Long Night. No intact examples lasted beyond the First Civil
>> War**
>> **
>> - BB-12. 300kt, J3G3. Upgrade of BB-11 to Imperium-class and renown
>> as
>> "mothership" of Third Imperium in use during reign of Cleon I through
>> the
>> Pacification Campaigns and until the Vargr Campaigns Many rotated to
>> reserve fleets or member worlds and more than a few converted to
>> museums or
>> monuments to the early wars of the Third Imperium. Cleon's personal
>> flagship was kept in vintage condition until it was destroyed in the
>> Civil
>> War when one of the Barrack's Emperors used it as his flagship and
>> was
>> killed in it's destruction.****
>> - BB-13. 300kt, J3G3. Imperator-class early Third Imperium upgrade of
>> the BB-12 and main capital ship through Civil War Hybrid
>> TL/spinal/weapons
>> upgrades of the original Sylean Fed battleship. Very few remaining in
>> service as of Rebellion and those almost entirely in Depot reserve
>> fleets.
>> Most were decomissioned and destroyed in weapons testings though a
>> couple
>> museum ships were preserved in the Sylean Federation.****
>> - BI-13. 700kt, J4G4. Original Basileus-class designed as supership .
>> Intended to replaced BB-13/BB-12 though due to the enormous expense,
>> most
>> sectors never saw more than one or two BatRons. Served through Third
>> Frontier War. Most were upgraded/refitted to BI-14 though a few
>> isolated
>> examples remain in service toward the Imperial Core, where a few high
>> nobles/admirals strut around in these due to high sentimental value.
>> They're mostly archaic though still can serve certain roles well
>> enough if
>> not as comfortably by its crew. None remained Behind the Claw.****
>> - BL-13 lite. 200kt, J3G2. Voroshilief-class. Cost effective
>> alternative to completely replacing BB-12 with BI-13. Retired by end
>> of
>> Civil War, where they did not perform well and were replaced with the
>> BT/R-14 system.****
>> - BT/R-14 std. 700k/30k J3G2/!JG5 Triumph-class Tender with 6x
>> Gallant-class Riders to replace BB-13 in face of design failures of
>> Voroshilief. Primary Imperial capital ship of the Solomani Rim War.
>> Many
>> transferred to Depot reserve fleets until they were called up as the
>> BT/R-15 were decimanted in the Rebellion****
>> - BI-14 dread. 700kt, J4G5. Kaiser-class refit/upgrade of BI-13. Most
>> BatRon were sent to the Depot mothball fleets, though a few were
>> decomissioned to museum ships and/or destroyed in weapons testing.
>> One
>> functional ship kept at Depot/Deneb, which was reactivated and used
>> as
>> Norris' flagship during Rebellion, cannibilizing the rest of the
>> squadron
>> for repair parts. Rest of the BatRon restored for service in the
>> Quarantine
>> during the Regency.****
>> - BL-14 lite. 200kt, J4G5. Original Kokirrak and main battleship of
>> late TL14 Third Imperium****
>> - BH-14 heavy. 500kt J4G5 - Panthera-class. Similar to later Tigress
>> but without the fighter complement and a much smaller rear
>> superstructure.
>> Not as widely procured and more of a doctrine test platform based on
>> lessons learned from BI-13 and BB-13, though several BatRon were
>> completed
>> and kept as a reaction force for the Emperor to send from Capital or
>> Depot/Core. The Pantheras had weapons and systems upgraded and were
>> largely
>> test beds for the evolution of the full TL15 Tigress. These hybrid
>> Panthera
>> BatRons remained in service in Lucan's Imperium through the
>> Rebellion.*
>> ***
>> - BT/R-15 std. 1M dton J3G2 - Cleon-class Tender with 4x
>> Admiral-class
>> 50k dton Riders. Primary capital ship of the Third Imperium through
>> the
>> Rebellion****
>> - BTL/RL-15 light 400kdt Lurenti-class Tender with 7x Nolikian-class
>> 20k dton Riders. Fleet doctrine test of light battle-riders and a
>> more cost
>> effective tender. Mostly seen on the periphery of the Third Imperium
>> as a
>> cheaper alternative to the BT/R-15.****
>> - BI-15 dread. 700kdt, J4G6. New Sylea-class design as Domain command
>> ship replacing the Kokirrak for use of highest nobles (Archdukes
>> and/or
>> Domain Grand Admirals). None in Marches/DoD/Regency. Dulinor's
>> flagship
>> Clarion is the most famous example in Imperial history****
>> - BL-15 lite. 200kdt, J4G6 Kokirrak-class and refit/upgrade of BL-14
>> though not widely procured****
>> - BM-15 missile. 200kdt J4G6. TL15 Plankwell-class and main
>> battleship
>> of TL15 Third Imperium****
>> - BB-15 heavy. 500kdt, J4G6. Tigress-class mature TL15 intended to
>> replace both Kokirrak and Plankwells. Much more widespread throughout
>> the
>> Imperium, even making it on the Solomani Rim and Spinward Marches,
>> though
>> never proliferated as widespread as the Plankwell before
>> Rebellion****
>> - BZ-15 proto. 700/850kdt J4G6. Prototype-built to Sylea-class
>> chassis
>> and carrying 3x 50k dton Admiral battle-riders though the first
>> prototype
>> also demonstrated BT/R-14 30k dton Gallant's.****
>>
>>
>>
>> ****
>>
>>
>>
>
I've dug out. The BatRon comes with some escorts as well, but I assume
they jump separately, and there are fighters carried on the Carrier.
I have always retained the original definition of BC: gunned like a BB but
longer legs, lighter armor, and bigger. So a great big, fat, expensive
liability like Jacky Fisher's originals, but oh, so romantic and oh, such
great flagships in peacetime. Much more interesting that way. Large
cruisers are just large cruisers.
> The 90k dt is also mentioned in the MT Ref's Companion. IMTU, the 90k jobs
> were considered a BB in their day (probably more of a BC but that's
> neither
> here nor there) but this perspective would definitely have originated with
> hindsight of the late 3I. IMTU/YMMV etc etc. At least that's my retcon
> since I really just forgot about it when I compiled this. :D
>
> Glad you like it Dave. Yes, the Lurentian is from SMC. I don't have it
> but heard enough about it. Didn't have it in my original draft but was
> trying to be complete. Guess I forgot about the MTRC/T4 90k thing, though
> and should probably toss the reference to the Lurentian since I was only
> really interested in the big BB's and not doing hundreds of entries for
> escort and cruiser evolution. ;)
>
> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 10:27 PM, Antony Farrell
> <>wrote:
>
>> **
>>
>>
>> I also looked at the evolution of the Shattered Designs, but I posited
>> that they were all third imperium designs. The reason came indirectly
>> from
>> T4s Coronation class battleships which were only 90,000 dt. These
>> presumably date from towards the end of the Sylean Federation and its
>> evolution into the early Third Imperium. They were also TL12 designs.
>> Now I
>> am assuming that since the Federation was smallers its fleet would have
>> had
>> a more consistent TL structure (TL12). In later periods the Coronation
>> would probably have been downgraded to heavy cruisers.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I did convert a number of the ships to TNE as well as other designs from
>> my Banners Sector game. You can find my interpretations at****
>>
>> http://www.skaran.net/bannerscampaign/equipment/craft/craft.html****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Antony****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *From:* [
>> ] *On Behalf Of *Master Uxi
>> *Sent:* Friday, 13 July 2012 12:48 PM
>> *To:*
>> *Subject:* [Traveller_TNE] Capital Ship Lineage of the Third
>> Imperium****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>>
>>
>> I actually did find a use for Shattered Ships of the Third Imperium once
>> upon a time. While it's designs were worthless for multiple reasons
>> (not
>> the least of which was the MT system, but also the pure incoherence of
>> many
>> of them). I didn't even really like the art... but it's prose on the
>> evolution of the capital ships in the 3I still resonates as a silver
>> lining
>> on an otherwise dark cloud. Combined with CT Supplement 9 and TNE's
>> Battle Rider, the rough piece of charcoal is capable of some small
>> amount
>> of polish. With the outline of the lineage from Shattered Ships of the
>> Imperium, I was able to conjecture some nice ideas (I'm rather fond of
>> the
>> Panthera and have ideas for using them coming out of the Black Curtain
>> with
>> PO'ed Cyber-Centaurs and their Meta-identity Eater Overlords.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Using CT Supplement 9, Supplement 5, MT Fighting Ships of the Shattered
>> Imperium, and TNE Battle Rider****
>> Third Imperium Capital Ships****
>>
>> - BB-11. 300kt, J2G2. Sylean Federation Federation-class Battleship
>> from Long Night. No intact examples lasted beyond the First Civil
>> War**
>> **
>> - BB-12. 300kt, J3G3. Upgrade of BB-11 to Imperium-class and renown
>> as
>> "mothership" of Third Imperium in use during reign of Cleon I through
>> the
>> Pacification Campaigns and until the Vargr Campaigns Many rotated to
>> reserve fleets or member worlds and more than a few converted to
>> museums or
>> monuments to the early wars of the Third Imperium. Cleon's personal
>> flagship was kept in vintage condition until it was destroyed in the
>> Civil
>> War when one of the Barrack's Emperors used it as his flagship and
>> was
>> killed in it's destruction.****
>> - BB-13. 300kt, J3G3. Imperator-class early Third Imperium upgrade of
>> the BB-12 and main capital ship through Civil War Hybrid
>> TL/spinal/weapons
>> upgrades of the original Sylean Fed battleship. Very few remaining in
>> service as of Rebellion and those almost entirely in Depot reserve
>> fleets.
>> Most were decomissioned and destroyed in weapons testings though a
>> couple
>> museum ships were preserved in the Sylean Federation.****
>> - BI-13. 700kt, J4G4. Original Basileus-class designed as supership .
>> Intended to replaced BB-13/BB-12 though due to the enormous expense,
>> most
>> sectors never saw more than one or two BatRons. Served through Third
>> Frontier War. Most were upgraded/refitted to BI-14 though a few
>> isolated
>> examples remain in service toward the Imperial Core, where a few high
>> nobles/admirals strut around in these due to high sentimental value.
>> They're mostly archaic though still can serve certain roles well
>> enough if
>> not as comfortably by its crew. None remained Behind the Claw.****
>> - BL-13 lite. 200kt, J3G2. Voroshilief-class. Cost effective
>> alternative to completely replacing BB-12 with BI-13. Retired by end
>> of
>> Civil War, where they did not perform well and were replaced with the
>> BT/R-14 system.****
>> - BT/R-14 std. 700k/30k J3G2/!JG5 Triumph-class Tender with 6x
>> Gallant-class Riders to replace BB-13 in face of design failures of
>> Voroshilief. Primary Imperial capital ship of the Solomani Rim War.
>> Many
>> transferred to Depot reserve fleets until they were called up as the
>> BT/R-15 were decimanted in the Rebellion****
>> - BI-14 dread. 700kt, J4G5. Kaiser-class refit/upgrade of BI-13. Most
>> BatRon were sent to the Depot mothball fleets, though a few were
>> decomissioned to museum ships and/or destroyed in weapons testing.
>> One
>> functional ship kept at Depot/Deneb, which was reactivated and used
>> as
>> Norris' flagship during Rebellion, cannibilizing the rest of the
>> squadron
>> for repair parts. Rest of the BatRon restored for service in the
>> Quarantine
>> during the Regency.****
>> - BL-14 lite. 200kt, J4G5. Original Kokirrak and main battleship of
>> late TL14 Third Imperium****
>> - BH-14 heavy. 500kt J4G5 - Panthera-class. Similar to later Tigress
>> but without the fighter complement and a much smaller rear
>> superstructure.
>> Not as widely procured and more of a doctrine test platform based on
>> lessons learned from BI-13 and BB-13, though several BatRon were
>> completed
>> and kept as a reaction force for the Emperor to send from Capital or
>> Depot/Core. The Pantheras had weapons and systems upgraded and were
>> largely
>> test beds for the evolution of the full TL15 Tigress. These hybrid
>> Panthera
>> BatRons remained in service in Lucan's Imperium through the
>> Rebellion.*
>> ***
>> - BT/R-15 std. 1M dton J3G2 - Cleon-class Tender with 4x
>> Admiral-class
>> 50k dton Riders. Primary capital ship of the Third Imperium through
>> the
>> Rebellion****
>> - BTL/RL-15 light 400kdt Lurenti-class Tender with 7x Nolikian-class
>> 20k dton Riders. Fleet doctrine test of light battle-riders and a
>> more cost
>> effective tender. Mostly seen on the periphery of the Third Imperium
>> as a
>> cheaper alternative to the BT/R-15.****
>> - BI-15 dread. 700kdt, J4G6. New Sylea-class design as Domain command
>> ship replacing the Kokirrak for use of highest nobles (Archdukes
>> and/or
>> Domain Grand Admirals). None in Marches/DoD/Regency. Dulinor's
>> flagship
>> Clarion is the most famous example in Imperial history****
>> - BL-15 lite. 200kdt, J4G6 Kokirrak-class and refit/upgrade of BL-14
>> though not widely procured****
>> - BM-15 missile. 200kdt J4G6. TL15 Plankwell-class and main
>> battleship
>> of TL15 Third Imperium****
>> - BB-15 heavy. 500kdt, J4G6. Tigress-class mature TL15 intended to
>> replace both Kokirrak and Plankwells. Much more widespread throughout
>> the
>> Imperium, even making it on the Solomani Rim and Spinward Marches,
>> though
>> never proliferated as widespread as the Plankwell before
>> Rebellion****
>> - BZ-15 proto. 700/850kdt J4G6. Prototype-built to Sylea-class
>> chassis
>> and carrying 3x 50k dton Admiral battle-riders though the first
>> prototype
>> also demonstrated BT/R-14 30k dton Gallant's.****
>>
>>
>>
>> ****
>>
>>
>>
>