The 90k dt is also mentioned in the MT Ref's Companion. IMTU, the 90k jobs
were considered a BB in their day (probably more of a BC but that's neither
here nor there) but this perspective would definitely have originated with
hindsight of the late 3I. IMTU/YMMV etc etc. At least that's my retcon
since I really just forgot about it when I compiled this. :D
Glad you like it Dave. Yes, the Lurentian is from SMC. I don't have it
but heard enough about it. Didn't have it in my original draft but was
trying to be complete. Guess I forgot about the MTRC/T4 90k thing, though
and should probably toss the reference to the Lurentian since I was only
really interested in the big BB's and not doing hundreds of entries for
escort and cruiser evolution. ;)
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 10:27 PM, Antony Farrell <>wrote:
> **
>
>
> I also looked at the evolution of the Shattered Designs, but I posited
> that they were all third imperium designs. The reason came indirectly from
> T4s Coronation class battleships which were only 90,000 dt. These
> presumably date from towards the end of the Sylean Federation and its
> evolution into the early Third Imperium. They were also TL12 designs. Now I
> am assuming that since the Federation was smallers its fleet would have had
> a more consistent TL structure (TL12). In later periods the Coronation
> would probably have been downgraded to heavy cruisers.****
>
> ** **
>
> I did convert a number of the ships to TNE as well as other designs from
> my Banners Sector game. You can find my interpretations at****
>
> http://www.skaran.net/bannerscampaign/equipment/craft/craft.html****
>
> ** **
>
> Antony****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* [
> ] *On Behalf Of *Master Uxi
> *Sent:* Friday, 13 July 2012 12:48 PM
> *To:*
> *Subject:* [Traveller_TNE] Capital Ship Lineage of the Third Imperium****
>
> ** **
>
>
>
> I actually did find a use for Shattered Ships of the Third Imperium once
> upon a time. While it's designs were worthless for multiple reasons (not
> the least of which was the MT system, but also the pure incoherence of many
> of them). I didn't even really like the art... but it's prose on the
> evolution of the capital ships in the 3I still resonates as a silver lining
> on an otherwise dark cloud. Combined with CT Supplement 9 and TNE's
> Battle Rider, the rough piece of charcoal is capable of some small amount
> of polish. With the outline of the lineage from Shattered Ships of the
> Imperium, I was able to conjecture some nice ideas (I'm rather fond of the
> Panthera and have ideas for using them coming out of the Black Curtain with
> PO'ed Cyber-Centaurs and their Meta-identity Eater Overlords.****
>
> ** **
>
> Using CT Supplement 9, Supplement 5, MT Fighting Ships of the Shattered
> Imperium, and TNE Battle Rider****
> Third Imperium Capital Ships****
>
> - BB-11. 300kt, J2G2. Sylean Federation Federation-class Battleship
> from Long Night. No intact examples lasted beyond the First Civil War**
> **
> - BB-12. 300kt, J3G3. Upgrade of BB-11 to Imperium-class and renown as
> "mothership" of Third Imperium in use during reign of Cleon I through the
> Pacification Campaigns and until the Vargr Campaigns Many rotated to
> reserve fleets or member worlds and more than a few converted to museums or
> monuments to the early wars of the Third Imperium. Cleon's personal
> flagship was kept in vintage condition until it was destroyed in the Civil
> War when one of the Barrack's Emperors used it as his flagship and was
> killed in it's destruction.****
> - BB-13. 300kt, J3G3. Imperator-class early Third Imperium upgrade of
> the BB-12 and main capital ship through Civil War Hybrid TL/spinal/weapons
> upgrades of the original Sylean Fed battleship. Very few remaining in
> service as of Rebellion and those almost entirely in Depot reserve fleets.
> Most were decomissioned and destroyed in weapons testings though a couple
> museum ships were preserved in the Sylean Federation.****
> - BI-13. 700kt, J4G4. Original Basileus-class designed as supership .
> Intended to replaced BB-13/BB-12 though due to the enormous expense, most
> sectors never saw more than one or two BatRons. Served through Third
> Frontier War. Most were upgraded/refitted to BI-14 though a few isolated
> examples remain in service toward the Imperial Core, where a few high
> nobles/admirals strut around in these due to high sentimental value.
> They're mostly archaic though still can serve certain roles well enough if
> not as comfortably by its crew. None remained Behind the Claw.****
> - BL-13 lite. 200kt, J3G2. Voroshilief-class. Cost effective
> alternative to completely replacing BB-12 with BI-13. Retired by end of
> Civil War, where they did not perform well and were replaced with the
> BT/R-14 system.****
> - BT/R-14 std. 700k/30k J3G2/!JG5 Triumph-class Tender with 6x
> Gallant-class Riders to replace BB-13 in face of design failures of
> Voroshilief. Primary Imperial capital ship of the Solomani Rim War. Many
> transferred to Depot reserve fleets until they were called up as the
> BT/R-15 were decimanted in the Rebellion****
> - BI-14 dread. 700kt, J4G5. Kaiser-class refit/upgrade of BI-13. Most
> BatRon were sent to the Depot mothball fleets, though a few were
> decomissioned to museum ships and/or destroyed in weapons testing. One
> functional ship kept at Depot/Deneb, which was reactivated and used as
> Norris' flagship during Rebellion, cannibilizing the rest of the squadron
> for repair parts. Rest of the BatRon restored for service in the Quarantine
> during the Regency.****
> - BL-14 lite. 200kt, J4G5. Original Kokirrak and main battleship of
> late TL14 Third Imperium****
> - BH-14 heavy. 500kt J4G5 - Panthera-class. Similar to later Tigress
> but without the fighter complement and a much smaller rear superstructure.
> Not as widely procured and more of a doctrine test platform based on
> lessons learned from BI-13 and BB-13, though several BatRon were completed
> and kept as a reaction force for the Emperor to send from Capital or
> Depot/Core. The Pantheras had weapons and systems upgraded and were largely
> test beds for the evolution of the full TL15 Tigress. These hybrid Panthera
> BatRons remained in service in Lucan's Imperium through the Rebellion.*
> ***
> - BT/R-15 std. 1M dton J3G2 - Cleon-class Tender with 4x Admiral-class
> 50k dton Riders. Primary capital ship of the Third Imperium through the
> Rebellion****
> - BTL/RL-15 light 400kdt Lurenti-class Tender with 7x Nolikian-class
> 20k dton Riders. Fleet doctrine test of light battle-riders and a more cost
> effective tender. Mostly seen on the periphery of the Third Imperium as a
> cheaper alternative to the BT/R-15.****
> - BI-15 dread. 700kdt, J4G6. New Sylea-class design as Domain command
> ship replacing the Kokirrak for use of highest nobles (Archdukes and/or
> Domain Grand Admirals). None in Marches/DoD/Regency. Dulinor's flagship
> Clarion is the most famous example in Imperial history****
> - BL-15 lite. 200kdt, J4G6 Kokirrak-class and refit/upgrade of BL-14
> though not widely procured****
> - BM-15 missile. 200kdt J4G6. TL15 Plankwell-class and main battleship
> of TL15 Third Imperium****
> - BB-15 heavy. 500kdt, J4G6. Tigress-class mature TL15 intended to
> replace both Kokirrak and Plankwells. Much more widespread throughout the
> Imperium, even making it on the Solomani Rim and Spinward Marches, though
> never proliferated as widespread as the Plankwell before Rebellion****
> - BZ-15 proto. 700/850kdt J4G6. Prototype-built to Sylea-class chassis
> and carrying 3x 50k dton Admiral battle-riders though the first prototype
> also demonstrated BT/R-14 30k dton Gallant's.****
>
>
>
> ****
>
>
>
were considered a BB in their day (probably more of a BC but that's neither
here nor there) but this perspective would definitely have originated with
hindsight of the late 3I. IMTU/YMMV etc etc. At least that's my retcon
since I really just forgot about it when I compiled this. :D
Glad you like it Dave. Yes, the Lurentian is from SMC. I don't have it
but heard enough about it. Didn't have it in my original draft but was
trying to be complete. Guess I forgot about the MTRC/T4 90k thing, though
and should probably toss the reference to the Lurentian since I was only
really interested in the big BB's and not doing hundreds of entries for
escort and cruiser evolution. ;)
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 10:27 PM, Antony Farrell <>wrote:
> **
>
>
> I also looked at the evolution of the Shattered Designs, but I posited
> that they were all third imperium designs. The reason came indirectly from
> T4s Coronation class battleships which were only 90,000 dt. These
> presumably date from towards the end of the Sylean Federation and its
> evolution into the early Third Imperium. They were also TL12 designs. Now I
> am assuming that since the Federation was smallers its fleet would have had
> a more consistent TL structure (TL12). In later periods the Coronation
> would probably have been downgraded to heavy cruisers.****
>
> ** **
>
> I did convert a number of the ships to TNE as well as other designs from
> my Banners Sector game. You can find my interpretations at****
>
> http://www.skaran.net/bannerscampaign/equipment/craft/craft.html****
>
> ** **
>
> Antony****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* [
> ] *On Behalf Of *Master Uxi
> *Sent:* Friday, 13 July 2012 12:48 PM
> *To:*
> *Subject:* [Traveller_TNE] Capital Ship Lineage of the Third Imperium****
>
> ** **
>
>
>
> I actually did find a use for Shattered Ships of the Third Imperium once
> upon a time. While it's designs were worthless for multiple reasons (not
> the least of which was the MT system, but also the pure incoherence of many
> of them). I didn't even really like the art... but it's prose on the
> evolution of the capital ships in the 3I still resonates as a silver lining
> on an otherwise dark cloud. Combined with CT Supplement 9 and TNE's
> Battle Rider, the rough piece of charcoal is capable of some small amount
> of polish. With the outline of the lineage from Shattered Ships of the
> Imperium, I was able to conjecture some nice ideas (I'm rather fond of the
> Panthera and have ideas for using them coming out of the Black Curtain with
> PO'ed Cyber-Centaurs and their Meta-identity Eater Overlords.****
>
> ** **
>
> Using CT Supplement 9, Supplement 5, MT Fighting Ships of the Shattered
> Imperium, and TNE Battle Rider****
> Third Imperium Capital Ships****
>
> - BB-11. 300kt, J2G2. Sylean Federation Federation-class Battleship
> from Long Night. No intact examples lasted beyond the First Civil War**
> **
> - BB-12. 300kt, J3G3. Upgrade of BB-11 to Imperium-class and renown as
> "mothership" of Third Imperium in use during reign of Cleon I through the
> Pacification Campaigns and until the Vargr Campaigns Many rotated to
> reserve fleets or member worlds and more than a few converted to museums or
> monuments to the early wars of the Third Imperium. Cleon's personal
> flagship was kept in vintage condition until it was destroyed in the Civil
> War when one of the Barrack's Emperors used it as his flagship and was
> killed in it's destruction.****
> - BB-13. 300kt, J3G3. Imperator-class early Third Imperium upgrade of
> the BB-12 and main capital ship through Civil War Hybrid TL/spinal/weapons
> upgrades of the original Sylean Fed battleship. Very few remaining in
> service as of Rebellion and those almost entirely in Depot reserve fleets.
> Most were decomissioned and destroyed in weapons testings though a couple
> museum ships were preserved in the Sylean Federation.****
> - BI-13. 700kt, J4G4. Original Basileus-class designed as supership .
> Intended to replaced BB-13/BB-12 though due to the enormous expense, most
> sectors never saw more than one or two BatRons. Served through Third
> Frontier War. Most were upgraded/refitted to BI-14 though a few isolated
> examples remain in service toward the Imperial Core, where a few high
> nobles/admirals strut around in these due to high sentimental value.
> They're mostly archaic though still can serve certain roles well enough if
> not as comfortably by its crew. None remained Behind the Claw.****
> - BL-13 lite. 200kt, J3G2. Voroshilief-class. Cost effective
> alternative to completely replacing BB-12 with BI-13. Retired by end of
> Civil War, where they did not perform well and were replaced with the
> BT/R-14 system.****
> - BT/R-14 std. 700k/30k J3G2/!JG5 Triumph-class Tender with 6x
> Gallant-class Riders to replace BB-13 in face of design failures of
> Voroshilief. Primary Imperial capital ship of the Solomani Rim War. Many
> transferred to Depot reserve fleets until they were called up as the
> BT/R-15 were decimanted in the Rebellion****
> - BI-14 dread. 700kt, J4G5. Kaiser-class refit/upgrade of BI-13. Most
> BatRon were sent to the Depot mothball fleets, though a few were
> decomissioned to museum ships and/or destroyed in weapons testing. One
> functional ship kept at Depot/Deneb, which was reactivated and used as
> Norris' flagship during Rebellion, cannibilizing the rest of the squadron
> for repair parts. Rest of the BatRon restored for service in the Quarantine
> during the Regency.****
> - BL-14 lite. 200kt, J4G5. Original Kokirrak and main battleship of
> late TL14 Third Imperium****
> - BH-14 heavy. 500kt J4G5 - Panthera-class. Similar to later Tigress
> but without the fighter complement and a much smaller rear superstructure.
> Not as widely procured and more of a doctrine test platform based on
> lessons learned from BI-13 and BB-13, though several BatRon were completed
> and kept as a reaction force for the Emperor to send from Capital or
> Depot/Core. The Pantheras had weapons and systems upgraded and were largely
> test beds for the evolution of the full TL15 Tigress. These hybrid Panthera
> BatRons remained in service in Lucan's Imperium through the Rebellion.*
> ***
> - BT/R-15 std. 1M dton J3G2 - Cleon-class Tender with 4x Admiral-class
> 50k dton Riders. Primary capital ship of the Third Imperium through the
> Rebellion****
> - BTL/RL-15 light 400kdt Lurenti-class Tender with 7x Nolikian-class
> 20k dton Riders. Fleet doctrine test of light battle-riders and a more cost
> effective tender. Mostly seen on the periphery of the Third Imperium as a
> cheaper alternative to the BT/R-15.****
> - BI-15 dread. 700kdt, J4G6. New Sylea-class design as Domain command
> ship replacing the Kokirrak for use of highest nobles (Archdukes and/or
> Domain Grand Admirals). None in Marches/DoD/Regency. Dulinor's flagship
> Clarion is the most famous example in Imperial history****
> - BL-15 lite. 200kdt, J4G6 Kokirrak-class and refit/upgrade of BL-14
> though not widely procured****
> - BM-15 missile. 200kdt J4G6. TL15 Plankwell-class and main battleship
> of TL15 Third Imperium****
> - BB-15 heavy. 500kdt, J4G6. Tigress-class mature TL15 intended to
> replace both Kokirrak and Plankwells. Much more widespread throughout the
> Imperium, even making it on the Solomani Rim and Spinward Marches, though
> never proliferated as widespread as the Plankwell before Rebellion****
> - BZ-15 proto. 700/850kdt J4G6. Prototype-built to Sylea-class chassis
> and carrying 3x 50k dton Admiral battle-riders though the first prototype
> also demonstrated BT/R-14 30k dton Gallant's.****
>
>
>
> ****
>
>
>