I wouldn't say the Mistrals are the best example because they are pretty
complete when France declines to turn them over to Putin's Pirates. A
better example might be the way that the QE CVFs are being built where
blocks are built in SEVEN different shipyards and barged to Rosyth for
final assembly, or US SSNs, similar but only three yards. The big issue is
that since it is the real world all that matters is if you can do it, and
no one has to figure out if Rosyth is a type A shipyard and Portsmouth,
Birkenhead, Govan, and Scotstoun aren't, or why if both Groton and Newport
News are type A, why do they barge components around? Obviously Quonset
Point is type B. Game rules are much more arbitrary because you can't just
let real life have a vote when the players need an answer now.
Traveller was first written when ships were almost all still launched down
inclined shipways (Litton Pascagoula probably the only exception at that
time), which hardly ever happens anymore.
> Isn't that sort of what is going on now with naval shipbuilding? For
> example the Mistrals the French are selling to the Russians. They are
> building most of it with some of the high tech stuff(propulsion and stuff)
> but not some(electronics and weapons) the Russians have to fit their less
> capable and cruder systems.I would think you could always swap systems in
> as long as they closly fit except if the tech was way out of line
>
> Wherever you go there you are-Buckaroo Banzai
>
> We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to
> visit violence on those who would do us harm. (Winston Churchill)
>
> When in doubt I think of the immortal words of Socrates when he said:"I
> just drank what?"
>
> On Sat, Feb 21, 2015 at 2:59 PM, [Traveller_TNE] <
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Roger--
>>
>> I agree with your premise about bringing the drive to the hull, but
>> that's
>> not the way I went, because it would violate the spirit of starport
>> classifications, and it was not our place to undermine too many settled
>> Traveller conventions (pick your favorite convention that we DID
>> violate--focal arrays vs. Space Battleship Yamato style WW2 turrets is
>> my
>> favorite distinction without a difference). The RC and the Covenant of
>> Suffren raised this issue all the time, but I didn't want to get into,
>> "it's a type A starport except when it's not, it's a type B starport
>> except when it's a type A." Logically the difference between Type A and
>> B
>> is not like the difference between Lead and Gold, but more like the
>> difference between Uranium 238 and Thorium 234. For all I know, the
>> sacred
>> UWP difference between A and B is like the number of stars in a Michelin
>> guide: some numbskull at TAS decides "it's a B" and it is because he
>> says
>> so. That's another piece of the expanded rules I've talked about, "how
>> do
>> you develop a B Starport into an A Starport," and I wasn't going to
>> trash
>> the distinction, but put out rules to visualize what the distinction
>> actually was and how you could manipulate and evolve it. Whether we
>> touched on any of that in World Tamer's I don't recall, but think we
>> didn't go that far.
>>
>> So bottom line is that I was deliberately saying that if you were going
>> to
>> install a Jump Drive you had to do it at an A starport, thereby working
>> within the rules until there was time to expand them.
>>
>> > The problem with only having one shipbuilding facility in the RC is
>> that
>> > if a vampire hit Aubaine like one did to Nike Nimbus the RC is sunk.
>> In
>> > addition it would speed up construction and save the construction
>> docks
>> > for much needed military craft.
>> > My thought was that Say Trybec could build a J-Hawk style ship but
>> near
>> > completion a Multi-mission scout with a J-drive and a couple of
>> > technicians on board would fly out and with the assistance of Trybec
>> > workers install the J-drive. Over time the technicians could step back
>> > into an advisory role as the workers took over more of the
>> installation
>> > work. The starport would then be, I guess a B+ or A- facility. Being
>> > TL-10, Trybec I assume would have most of the where-to-all to build
>> the
>> > components of a jump drive, coils and governors might have to be
>> tooled
>> > up and final construction of the drive would have to be build, but
>> once
>> > this was done and the personal trained up the starport would get its
>> > class-A rating.
>> > For an idea, check out BARD and an SDB called ATEF, this is my idea on
>> a
>> > multi-tech on a single ship. Modules holding higher tech systems like
>> > sensors and the computer to run them is a great idea, it would allow
>> ship
>> > to up-graded when funds or need wanted. The only connections that
>> would
>> > be needed would be to the bridge, electronics workstation and a power
>> > connection.
>> > My thoughts on the jump computer limiting the distance of the jump is
>> > mixed here. On one side FF&S only states that a third computer is
>> needed
>> > for a jump capable ship. Here I assume "again" that the jump governor
>> or
>> > a small computer integral to the drive itself is sufficient for the
>> > required distance of the jump. I can see where limiting the jump
>> > distance because of the jump computer TL. I guess this will be one of
>> > those IMTU rules.
>> > Roger
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
complete when France declines to turn them over to Putin's Pirates. A
better example might be the way that the QE CVFs are being built where
blocks are built in SEVEN different shipyards and barged to Rosyth for
final assembly, or US SSNs, similar but only three yards. The big issue is
that since it is the real world all that matters is if you can do it, and
no one has to figure out if Rosyth is a type A shipyard and Portsmouth,
Birkenhead, Govan, and Scotstoun aren't, or why if both Groton and Newport
News are type A, why do they barge components around? Obviously Quonset
Point is type B. Game rules are much more arbitrary because you can't just
let real life have a vote when the players need an answer now.
Traveller was first written when ships were almost all still launched down
inclined shipways (Litton Pascagoula probably the only exception at that
time), which hardly ever happens anymore.
> Isn't that sort of what is going on now with naval shipbuilding? For
> example the Mistrals the French are selling to the Russians. They are
> building most of it with some of the high tech stuff(propulsion and stuff)
> but not some(electronics and weapons) the Russians have to fit their less
> capable and cruder systems.I would think you could always swap systems in
> as long as they closly fit except if the tech was way out of line
>
> Wherever you go there you are-Buckaroo Banzai
>
> We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to
> visit violence on those who would do us harm. (Winston Churchill)
>
> When in doubt I think of the immortal words of Socrates when he said:"I
> just drank what?"
>
> On Sat, Feb 21, 2015 at 2:59 PM, [Traveller_TNE] <
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Roger--
>>
>> I agree with your premise about bringing the drive to the hull, but
>> that's
>> not the way I went, because it would violate the spirit of starport
>> classifications, and it was not our place to undermine too many settled
>> Traveller conventions (pick your favorite convention that we DID
>> violate--focal arrays vs. Space Battleship Yamato style WW2 turrets is
>> my
>> favorite distinction without a difference). The RC and the Covenant of
>> Suffren raised this issue all the time, but I didn't want to get into,
>> "it's a type A starport except when it's not, it's a type B starport
>> except when it's a type A." Logically the difference between Type A and
>> B
>> is not like the difference between Lead and Gold, but more like the
>> difference between Uranium 238 and Thorium 234. For all I know, the
>> sacred
>> UWP difference between A and B is like the number of stars in a Michelin
>> guide: some numbskull at TAS decides "it's a B" and it is because he
>> says
>> so. That's another piece of the expanded rules I've talked about, "how
>> do
>> you develop a B Starport into an A Starport," and I wasn't going to
>> trash
>> the distinction, but put out rules to visualize what the distinction
>> actually was and how you could manipulate and evolve it. Whether we
>> touched on any of that in World Tamer's I don't recall, but think we
>> didn't go that far.
>>
>> So bottom line is that I was deliberately saying that if you were going
>> to
>> install a Jump Drive you had to do it at an A starport, thereby working
>> within the rules until there was time to expand them.
>>
>> > The problem with only having one shipbuilding facility in the RC is
>> that
>> > if a vampire hit Aubaine like one did to Nike Nimbus the RC is sunk.
>> In
>> > addition it would speed up construction and save the construction
>> docks
>> > for much needed military craft.
>> > My thought was that Say Trybec could build a J-Hawk style ship but
>> near
>> > completion a Multi-mission scout with a J-drive and a couple of
>> > technicians on board would fly out and with the assistance of Trybec
>> > workers install the J-drive. Over time the technicians could step back
>> > into an advisory role as the workers took over more of the
>> installation
>> > work. The starport would then be, I guess a B+ or A- facility. Being
>> > TL-10, Trybec I assume would have most of the where-to-all to build
>> the
>> > components of a jump drive, coils and governors might have to be
>> tooled
>> > up and final construction of the drive would have to be build, but
>> once
>> > this was done and the personal trained up the starport would get its
>> > class-A rating.
>> > For an idea, check out BARD and an SDB called ATEF, this is my idea on
>> a
>> > multi-tech on a single ship. Modules holding higher tech systems like
>> > sensors and the computer to run them is a great idea, it would allow
>> ship
>> > to up-graded when funds or need wanted. The only connections that
>> would
>> > be needed would be to the bridge, electronics workstation and a power
>> > connection.
>> > My thoughts on the jump computer limiting the distance of the jump is
>> > mixed here. On one side FF&S only states that a third computer is
>> needed
>> > for a jump capable ship. Here I assume "again" that the jump governor
>> or
>> > a small computer integral to the drive itself is sufficient for the
>> > required distance of the jump. I can see where limiting the jump
>> > distance because of the jump computer TL. I guess this will be one of
>> > those IMTU rules.
>> > Roger
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>