Thread: Re: Sensor Ops

John Potter · Thu, Jul 19, 2012

*Range modifier table.*

- TNE combat encounters start at 2d6x10 range bands (30k per band).

- On average an encounter will start at 70 range bands or 2100km given the
tables penalties modifiers a ships wouldn't even be able to see each other
on average.

*(note that the TNE rules do take range into account in a metagame sense as
the number of band / 3 is the diff mod of target locking another vessel)*

- The difference between point blank (same hex 30km) and maximum distance
(3600km 120 range bands) is only a difference on 1 modifier on the table.

---

*PEMS & AEMS vs Moving*

- This doesn't seem reasonable for Passive Sensors.

- It doesn't make sense for Active Sensors because at advanced tech levels
that a reaction mass drive would prevent 'all' use passive sensors. This is
additionally true when you take into account of vector based combat as a
ship can simply accelerate in a given direction and rotate on axis to point
its sensors at something, giving a 'clear view' of wants to see.

- In a true sense Gs of acceleration matter very little to the EMW
propagation through space or the ability to detect an EMW phenomena. And
there is again the point of a ship can simply rotate and ping the
area/target with which ever active sensor it wants during a combat turn (in
TNE 30minutes)

You don't list how any types of masking effect the modifiers, so it stands
as an open question.

With all the above said these seem appropriate for a war game mechanics
with the correct time scale for turns.

On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 9:49 AM, Craige <> wrote:

> **
>
>
>
> *
>
>
>
> Ranges Range Modifier
>
> Contact 0 m 1 m
> 0
>
> Short 1 m 5 m
> 1
>
> Medium 5 m 50 m
> 2
>
> Long 50 m 250 m
> 3
>
> Very Long 250 m 500 m
> 4
>
> Distant 500 m 5 km
> 5
>
> Very Distant 5 km 50 km
> 6
>
> Regional 50 km 500 km
> 7
>
> Continental 500 km 5000 km
> 8
>
> Planetary 5000 km 50 000 km
> 9
>
> Interplanetary 50 000 km 500 000 km 10
>
> Deep Orbit 500 000 km 5 000 000 km 11
>
> 5 000 000 50 000 000 km
> 12
>
> 50 000 000 500 000 000 km
> 13
>
> Solar 500 000 000 500 000 000 000 14
>
> Oort Cloud 500 000 000 000 5 000 000 000 000 15
>
> *
>
>
> A maneuvering ship cannot use passive sensors.****
>
> Sensing Ship is maneuvering 1-3 G: -1 to active sensor, cannot use passive
> sensors.****
>
> Sensing ship is maneuvering >3 G: -2 to active sensors, cannot use passive
> sensors.****
>
> Sensing ship is maneuvering >6 G: -3 to active sensors, ****
>
> Sensing ship is maneuvering >10 G: -4 to active sensors,
>
>
>
>
> --
If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever happened to you
would have been deserved.

master.uxi · Thu, Jul 19, 2012

Not bad. I used a variant of Bruce Macintosh(sp?) rules from the
TML. Signal = sensitivity- range + signature.
Sensitivity is a set characteristic of the sensor though capable
of tuning by engineers (technobabble game mechanic)... And a
skilled/experienced operator can interpret (game mechanic skill
usage)
Similarly signature is a set stat of a ship like Jump
Coefficient, though subject to maintenance and activity as well
as tuning

---
from my T989

dcndcn13 · Thu, Jul 19, 2012

Craige--

I won't be able to respond to this right away, as it will require me to
look at it carefully so I can determine what is your new wrinkle to allow
me to comment on that.

Dave

> HI all,
>
> Please note following are a set of sensor rules that I made based on
> something I read a long time ago on a TNE news group. So sorry if I have
> not provided correct and proper references. Sorry if this don't make
> sense on your email, then go to the TNE newsgroup pages.
>
>
>
> Detection of Space Units
>
> Detection of space units such as space vessels and gravatic vehicles
> involves the use of sensors. Sensors are broadly categorized as active
> or passive. Active sensors employ active electromagnetic waves and
> detect reflected signatures. Passive sensors detect energy emissions of
> the target.
>
>
>
>
> Signature = Sensitivity + Absolute Range + Computer Modifier Range
> Modifier Target DMs
>
>
>
>
> Sensitivity
>
> AEMS Sensitivity
>
>
> Active Sensor
>
> Technology Level
>
> Range (km)
>
> 10
>
> 11
>
> 12
>
> 13
>
> 14
>
> 15
>
> 3
>
> 2
>
> 3
>
> 4
>
> 5
>
> 6
>
> 7
>
> 30
>
> 3
>
> 4
>
> 5
>
> 6
>
> 7
>
> 8
>
> 300
>
> 4
>
> 5
>
> 6
>
> 7
>
> 8
>
> 9
>
> 3000
>
> 5
>
> 6
>
> 7
>
> 8
>
> 9
>
> 10
>
> 30 000
>
> 6
>
> 7
>
> 8
>
> 9
>
> 10
>
> 11
>
> 300 000
>
> 7
>
> 8
>
> 9
>
> 10
>
> 11
>
> 12
>
> 3 000 000
>
> 8
>
> 9
>
> 10
>
> 11
>
> 12
>
> 13
>
> 30 000 000
>
> 9
>
> 10
>
> 11
>
> 12
>
> 13
>
> 14
>
> 300 000 000
>
> 10
>
> 11
>
> 12
>
> 13
>
> 14
>
> 15
>
> 3 000 000 000
>
> 11
>
> 12
>
> 13
>
> 14
>
> 15
>
> 16
>
>
>
>
> PEMS Sensitivity
>
>
> Passive Sensor
>
> Technology Level
>
> Range (km)
>
> 10
>
> 11
>
> 12
>
> 13
>
> 14
>
> 15
>
> 3
>
> 4.5
>
> 5.5
>
> 6.5
>
> 7.5
>
> 8.5
>
> 9.5
>
> 30
>
> 5.5
>
> 6.5
>
> 7.5
>
> 8.5
>
> 9.5
>
> 10.5
>
> 300
>
> 6.5
>
> 7.5
>
> 8.5
>
> 9.5
>
> 10.5
>
> 11.5
>
> 3000
>
> 7.5
>
> 8.5
>
> 9.5
>
> 10.5
>
> 11.5
>
> 12.5
>
> 30 000
>
> 8.5
>
> 9.5
>
> 10.5
>
> 11.5
>
> 12.5
>
> 13.5
>
> 300 000
>
> 9.5
>
> 10.5
>
> 11.5
>
> 12.5
>
> 13.5
>
> 14.5
>
> 3 000 000
>
> 10.5
>
> 11.5
>
> 12.5
>
> 13.5
>
> 14.5
>
> 15.5
>
> 30 000 000
>
> 11.5
>
> 12.5
>
> 13.5
>
> 14.5
>
> 15.5
>
> 16.5
>
> 300 000 000
>
> 12.5
>
> 13.5
>
> 14.5
>
> 15.5
>
> 16.5
>
> 17.5
>
> 3 000 000 000
>
> 13.5
>
> 14.5
>
> 15.5
>
> 16.5
>
> 17.5
>
> 18.5
>
>
>
>
> Absolute Range
>
> -Ln (Range to Target /Short range of Sensor)
>
> The negative natural log of (range to target divided by the short range
> of the sensor).
>
>
>
> Computer Modifier
>
>
>
>
> Vehicle Displacement
>
> Computer Number by tech level
>
>
>
> 10
>
> 11
>
> 12
>
> 13
>
> 14
>
> 15
>
> 1-9
>
> 0
>
> 0
>
> 0
>
> 0
>
> 0.25
>
> 0.5
>
> 10-99
>
> 0
>
> 0
>
> 0
>
> 0.25
>
> 0.5
>
> 1.0
>
> 100-999
>
> 0
>
> 0.25
>
> 0.5
>
> 1.0
>
> 1.5
>
> 2.0
>
> 1000-9999
>
> 1
>
> 1.5
>
> 2
>
> 2.5
>
> 3
>
> 4
>
> 10 000 - 99 999
>
> 2
>
> 3
>
> 4
>
> 5
>
> 6
>
> 7
>
> 100 000 999 999
>
> 3
>
> 4
>
> 5
>
> 6
>
> 7
>
> 8
>
> 1 000 000 999 999 999
>
> 4
>
> 5
>
> 6
>
> 7
>
> 8
>
> 9
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Military vehicles with two computers add one to the number in the table.
>
> Military vehicles with three computers instead add two to the number in
> the table.
>
>
>
> Ranges Range Modifier
>
> Contact 0 m 1 m
> 0
>
> Short 1 m 5 m
> 1
>
> Medium 5 m 50 m
> 2
>
> Long 50 m 250 m
> 3
>
> Very Long 250 m 500 m
> 4
>
> Distant 500 m 5 km
> 5
>
> Very Distant 5 km 50 km
> 6
>
> Regional 50 km 500 km
> 7
>
> Continental 500 km 5000 km
> 8
>
> Planetary 5000 km 50 000 km
> 9
>
> Interplanetary 50 000 km 500 000 km
> 10
>
> Deep Orbit 500 000 km 5 000 000 km
> 11
>
> 5 000 000 50 000 000 km
> 12
>
> 50 000 000 500 000 000 km
> 13
>
> Solar 500 000 000 500 000 000 000
> 14
>
> Oort Cloud 500 000 000 000 5 000 000 000 000 15
>
>
>
> Target DMs
>
> Target Size
>
>
> Vehicle Displacement
>
> Difficulty Modifier
>
> 0-1
>
> -4
>
> 1-9
>
> -3
>
> 10-99
>
> -2
>
> 100-999
>
> -1
>
> 1000 - 9999
>
> 0
>
> 10 000-99 999
>
> +1
>
> 100 000-999 999
>
> +2
>
> 1 000 000-9 999 999
>
> +4
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Target Energy
>
>
> MW Output
>
> Difficulty Modifier
>
> 0-1
>
> -4
>
> 1-5
>
> -2
>
> 6-10
>
> -1
>
> 11-99
>
> 0
>
> 100-500
>
> +1
>
> 501-1 000
>
> +2
>
> 1 001-5 000
>
> +3
>
> 5 001-50 000
>
> +4
>
> 50 001-500,000
>
> +5
>
> 500,001-5,000,000
>
> +6
>
>
>
>
> A maneuvering ship cannot use passive sensors.
>
> Sensing Ship is maneuvering 1-3 G: -1 to active sensor, cannot use
> passive sensors.
>
> Sensing ship is maneuvering >3 G: -2 to active sensors, cannot use
> passive sensors.
>
> Sensing ship is maneuvering >6 G: -3 to active sensors,
>
> Sensing ship is maneuvering >10 G: -4 to active sensors,
>
>
>
> Signature
>
> -2 Target cannot be detected
>
> -1.5 Impossible task to detect target
>
> -0.5 Formidable task to detect target
>
> 0 Difficult task to detect target
>
> 1.0 Routine task to detect target
>
> 1.5 Simple task to detect target
>
> 2+ Target is automatically detected
>
>
>
> Signature = Actual Sensitivity + Absolute Range Range Mod +
> Computer Mod + Target DMs
>
>
>
> There may be other DMs such as the facing of the target ship in relation
> to the sensing ship or massive bodies such as planets nearby
>
>
>
> Thoughts anyone?
>
> Enjoy!
>
> Craige
>
>
>
>

Tim O'Reilly · Fri, Jul 20, 2012

I tend to agree that AEMS & PEMS would not be affected by manuevering - that would be like saying that a DD couldn't use passive EMS to detect a submarine and vice versa.Â Change in vector as in change in direction may affect PEMS if a tail is used - IIRC that included 2300 genre as well as RL - but straight line?Â no.Â Active systems could be affected if the vessel/vehicle is manuevering in such a manner to avoid being a target - but otherwise I'd think that it might not be that much of an issue.Â The thing is most folks think of a traveller spaceship as being a glorified airplane and, to a point, that's not far off.Â But, OTOH, these same vessels also resemble ocean going ships, and that allows greatly differing capabilities.
Tim

>________________________________
From: John Potter
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Traveller_TNE] Sensor Ops
>
>
>
>Â
>
>Range modifier table.
>
>
>- TNE combat encounters start at 2d6x10 range bands (30k per band).Â
>- On average an encounter will start at 70 range bands or 2100km given the tables penalties modifiers a ships wouldn't even be able to see each other on average.Â
>(note that the TNE rules do take range into account in a metagame sense as the number of band / 3 is the diff mod of target locking another vessel)
>- The difference between point blank (same hex 30km) and maximum distance (3600km 120 range bands) is only a difference on 1 modifier on the table.
>
>
>---
>PEMS & AEMS vs Moving
>
>
>- This doesn't seem reasonable for Passive Sensors.
>- It doesn't make sense for Active Sensors because at advanced tech levels that a reaction mass drive would prevent 'all' use passive sensors. This is additionally true when you take into account of vector based combat as a ship can simply accelerate in a given direction and rotate on axis to point its sensors at something, giving a 'clear view' of wants to see.
>- In a true sense Gs of acceleration matter very little to the EMW propagation through space or the ability to detect an EMWÂ phenomena. And there is again the point of a ship can simply rotate and ping the area/target with which ever active sensor it wants during a combat turn (in TNE 30minutes)Â
>
>
>You don't list how any types of masking effect the modifiers, so it stands as an open question.
>
>
>With all the above said these seem appropriate for a war game mechanics with the correct time scale for turns.
>
>
>
>
>
>On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 9:49 AM, Craige <> wrote:
>
>
>>Â
>>
>>Â RangesÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Range Modifier
>>ContactÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 0 m â 1 m Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 0
>>ShortÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 1 m â 5 m Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 1
>>Medium Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 5 m â 50 m Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 2
>>Long Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 50 m â 250 m Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 3
>>Very Long Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 250 m â 500 m Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 4
>>DistantÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 500 m â 5 kmÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 5
>>Very Distant Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 5 km â 50 km Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 6
>>RegionalÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 50 km â 500 kmÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 7
>>ContinentalÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 500 km â 5000 kmÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 8
>>PlanetaryÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 5000 km â 50 000 kmÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 9
>>Interplanetary Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 50 000 km â 500 000 kmÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 10
>>Deep Orbit Â Â Â Â 500 000 km â 5 000 000 kmÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 11
>>Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 5 000 000 â 50 000 000 kmÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 12
>>Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 50 000 000 â 500 000 000 kmÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 13
>>SolarÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 500 000 000 â 500 000 000 000Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 14
>>Oort Cloud Â Â Â Â 500 000 000 000 â 5 000 000 000 000Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 15
>>
>>
>>A maneuvering ship cannot use passive sensors.
>>Sensing Ship is maneuvering 1-3 G: -1 to active sensor, cannot use passive sensors.
>>Sensing ship is maneuvering >3 G: -2 to active sensors, cannot use passive sensors.
>>Sensing ship is maneuvering >6 G: -3 to active sensors,
>>Sensing ship is maneuvering >10 G: -4 to active sensors,
>>Â
>>--
>If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever happened to you would have been deserved.
>
>
>
>