Thread: Vargr Bites

11 posts.

Hi all,

In all my years of gaming, I've never had this happen before.

I've got two vargr battling it out against one another and one, given
the opportunity, will attempt to rip the other's throat out with his
teeth. I've looked in AM3 and V&V but haven't found anything about
specific damage.

Going by some animal encounters data... 1d6 seems a bit high. 1-3 perhaps?

\_/
DED
TNE @ Yahoo ml Admin

I'd go with the full 1d6. A canine chop can be surprisingly powerful. I don't think it is too much.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 6, 2012, at 10:49 AM, DED <> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> In all my years of gaming, I've never had this happen before.
>
> I've got two vargr battling it out against one another and one, given
> the opportunity, will attempt to rip the other's throat out with his
> teeth. I've looked in AM3 and V&V but haven't found anything about
> specific damage.
>
> Going by some animal encounters data... 1d6 seems a bit high. 1-3 perhaps?
>
> \_/
> DED
> TNE @ Yahoo ml Admin
>
Given that it IS the throat, why not 1D6? Lots of arteries there. Given
that dogs have heavy fur armor (which would actually be rubbed off by the
clothes they wear, but don't get me started), maybe less, but you've also
got windpipes, etc. I say 1D6.

> Hi all,
>
> In all my years of gaming, I've never had this happen before.
>
> I've got two vargr battling it out against one another and one, given
> the opportunity, will attempt to rip the other's throat out with his
> teeth. I've looked in AM3 and V&V but haven't found anything about
> specific damage.
>
> Going by some animal encounters data... 1d6 seems a bit high. 1-3 perhaps?
>
> \_/
> DED
> TNE @ Yahoo ml Admin
>

I think the questions are;

1. Is the Vargr trained in the use of its bite? (see Aslan dew claw rules)
2. If skilled wouldn't UMD cover this?
3. If for tone or setting it seems appropriate for one or the other die
from such attack remember the quick kill rules for NPCs. As a GM an npc can
simply die from taking a single point of damage if their unlucky enough.
This becomes different if the Vargr in this situation are PCs obviously.

Cheers.

On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 8:49 AM, DED <> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> In all my years of gaming, I've never had this happen before.
>
> I've got two vargr battling it out against one another and one, given
> the opportunity, will attempt to rip the other's throat out with his
> teeth. I've looked in AM3 and V&V but haven't found anything about
> specific damage.
>
> Going by some animal encounters data... 1d6 seems a bit high. 1-3 perhaps?
>
> \_/
> DED
> TNE @ Yahoo ml Admin
>
>

--
If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever happened to you
would have been deserved.
For what it's worth, GURPS Traveller uses "15 points" advantage for Aslan dewclaws, and lists Vargr "teeth" at a "5 point" advantage.
It's PC vs. PC so Quick Kill is inadvisable. It certainly would've made things easier if either one was NPC. :)

Neither one has Infighting so it's instinct, rather than trained combatants.

I've got two votes for 1d6. I'll stick with that then.

Thanks, guys!
\_/
DED
TNE @ Yahoo ml Admin

--- In , John Potter wrote:
>
> I think the questions are;
>
> 1. Is the Vargr trained in the use of its bite? (see Aslan dew claw rules)
> 2. If skilled wouldn't UMD cover this?
> 3. If for tone or setting it seems appropriate for one or the other die
> from such attack remember the quick kill rules for NPCs. As a GM an npc can
> simply die from taking a single point of damage if their unlucky enough.
> This becomes different if the Vargr in this situation are PCs obviously.
>
> Cheers.
>
> On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 8:49 AM, DED wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > In all my years of gaming, I've never had this happen before.
> >
> > I've got two vargr battling it out against one another and one, given
> > the opportunity, will attempt to rip the other's throat out with his
> > teeth. I've looked in AM3 and V&V but haven't found anything about
> > specific damage.
> >
> > Going by some animal encounters data... 1d6 seems a bit high. 1-3 perhaps?
> >
> > \_/
> > DED
> > TNE @ Yahoo ml Admin
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever happened to you
> would have been deserved.
>

I don't speak GURPS so that doesn't really help. But, thanks anyway, Claude. You already helped out tremendously on that other stuff I off-listed you about. :)

\_/
DED
TNE @ Yahoo ml Admin

--- In , "Claude Murdoch" wrote:
>
> For what it's worth, GURPS Traveller uses "15 points" advantage for Aslan dewclaws, and lists Vargr "teeth" at a "5 point" advantage.
>

Hello Everyone,

I have been attacked in the real world and your question spurred some memories. I was 180, fit, 5'8" and 30. I was attacked by a Golden Labrador with hyper aggressive tendencies weighing 85+. I responded to the the dog barking constantly. It led me to where a black Labrador female was penned to prevent her being gotten at.

I looked at the dog, told it No I would not let him in. He sat back and then pounced on me, hitting me with both forelegs and knocking my feet out of my shoes (ripped shoe tops out, both) and bruising my upper chest. Lost breath and slightly dazed at the NO warning attack. It went for my throat, I immediately and knowingly ducked my face into the bite. Felt like I was a hamburger being bit, but the adrenalin surged and I had very, little pain. Fast as that neck strike was, he made a second immediately after and I put my Left Arm in his mouth. He never let go of that arm (he did not puncture the clothing, but I still have a vivid V shaped scar at the left inner elbow. No bleeding there but heavy skin damage due to pressure).

I choked the dog with its chain choke collar but the thick muscles prevented me from knocking him out with a one hand grasp. Though his eyes glazed, he still held on. Twenty minutes later, a neighbor came out and the dog was up and at me again. With the neighbors help we got him detached and locked up.

My Point, I would NEVER let the dog bite my throat even if he got my face. The face wound was over six inches by four and had strings of fat from face hanging out. My doctor would not treat, but sent me to the emergency room. Point here face wounds often are non-critical. Ironically, my mother always took care of the dogs and if he had attacked her it would have killed her. (5ft, 120lbs, 55, secretary). I was actually happy with the result afterwards. The dog was diagnosed as brain tumor, but maybenot. It had to put it down.

I frequently read of "baring the throat", but I would/did NOT and do not think any rational being would, unless there were cultural, racial traits for it. I have seen Pit Bulls tear other dogs up and they do NOT to my knowledge, back off like other dogs.

Any fight where someone strikes for the throat with their teeth would also force the attacker into a more vulnerable position. I would be inclined to make the attempt a low one to succeed, but higher to hit with the resultant counterattack possibly being worse for the attacker. Still we are talking seconds of action and from my experience shock did NOT set in. Everyone else was much more affected by my wounds looks. If I had a knife or bludgeon the dog would have been mincemeat.

"Going for the throat" is an all out attack, exposing the attacker to hand held weaponry.

Posted for thoughts as a real experience.

Thanks, Harry

--- In , "DED" <dedly@...> wrote:
>
> I don't speak GURPS so that doesn't really help. But, thanks anyway, Claude. You already helped out tremendously on that other stuff I off-listed you about. :)
>
> \_/
> DED
> TNE @ Yahoo ml Admin
>
> --- In , "Claude Murdoch" wrote:
> >
> > For what it's worth, GURPS Traveller uses "15 points" advantage for Aslan dewclaws, and lists Vargr "teeth" at a "5 point" advantage.
> >
>

Thanks for the reality check, Harry (I think). Brutal story. Glad you're still around to tell it.

\_/
DED
TNE @ Yahoo ml Admin

--- In , "dragoondelight" wrote:
>
> Hello Everyone,
>
> I have been attacked in the real world and your question spurred some memories. I was 180, fit, 5'8" and 30. I was attacked by a Golden Labrador with hyper aggressive tendencies weighing 85+. I responded to the the dog barking constantly. It led me to where a black Labrador female was penned to prevent her being gotten at.
>
> I looked at the dog, told it No I would not let him in. He sat back and then pounced on me, hitting me with both forelegs and knocking my feet out of my shoes (ripped shoe tops out, both) and bruising my upper chest. Lost breath and slightly dazed at the NO warning attack. It went for my throat, I immediately and knowingly ducked my face into the bite. Felt like I was a hamburger being bit, but the adrenalin surged and I had very, little pain. Fast as that neck strike was, he made a second immediately after and I put my Left Arm in his mouth. He never let go of that arm (he did not puncture the clothing, but I still have a vivid V shaped scar at the left inner elbow. No bleeding there but heavy skin damage due to pressure).
>
> I choked the dog with its chain choke collar but the thick muscles prevented me from knocking him out with a one hand grasp. Though his eyes glazed, he still held on. Twenty minutes later, a neighbor came out and the dog was up and at me again. With the neighbors help we got him detached and locked up.
>
> My Point, I would NEVER let the dog bite my throat even if he got my face. The face wound was over six inches by four and had strings of fat from face hanging out. My doctor would not treat, but sent me to the emergency room. Point here face wounds often are non-critical. Ironically, my mother always took care of the dogs and if he had attacked her it would have killed her. (5ft, 120lbs, 55, secretary). I was actually happy with the result afterwards. The dog was diagnosed as brain tumor, but maybenot. It had to put it down.
>
> I frequently read of "baring the throat", but I would/did NOT and do not think any rational being would, unless there were cultural, racial traits for it. I have seen Pit Bulls tear other dogs up and they do NOT to my knowledge, back off like other dogs.
>
> Any fight where someone strikes for the throat with their teeth would also force the attacker into a more vulnerable position. I would be inclined to make the attempt a low one to succeed, but higher to hit with the resultant counterattack possibly being worse for the attacker. Still we are talking seconds of action and from my experience shock did NOT set in. Everyone else was much more affected by my wounds looks. If I had a knife or bludgeon the dog would have been mincemeat.
>
> "Going for the throat" is an all out attack, exposing the attacker to hand held weaponry.
>
> Posted for thoughts as a real experience.
>
> Thanks, Harry
>
> --- In , "DED" wrote:
> >
> > I don't speak GURPS so that doesn't really help. But, thanks anyway, Claude. You already helped out tremendously on that other stuff I off-listed you about. :)
> >
> > \_/
> > DED
> > TNE @ Yahoo ml Admin
> >
> > --- In , "Claude Murdoch" wrote:
> > >
> > > For what it's worth, GURPS Traveller uses "15 points" advantage for Aslan dewclaws, and lists Vargr "teeth" at a "5 point" advantage.
> > >
> >
>

Dear Folks -

Dave wrote:
>Given that it IS the throat, why not 1D6?

FWIW, here's a link to my (admittedly MT) weapons tables for alien weapons (actually thislinks to the Vargr section):

<http://members.tip.net.au/~davidjw/tavspecs/maint/combat/hyp_wpn/alienwpn.htm#Vargr Natural Weapons>

The quick reference is:
Weapon, Penetration, Damage (dice)
Hands, 1, 1
Dewclaws,, 2, 2
Vargr claw, 2, 2
Vargr teeth, 4, 2

I just don't know how this translates to TNE. :-(

Yeah, since he only asked for damage, I wasn't sure what system he was
using. But assuming that to-hit and to-penetrate had already been solved,
the higher damage value seemed reasonable to me.

> Dear Folks -
>
> Dave wrote:
>>Given that it IS the throat, why not 1D6?
>
> FWIW, here's a link to my (admittedly MT) weapons tables for alien weapons
> (actually thislinks to the Vargr section):
>
> <http://members.tip.net.au/~davidjw/tavspecs/maint/combat/hyp_wpn/alienwpn.htm#Vargr
> Natural Weapons>
>
> The quick reference is:
> Weapon, Penetration, Damage (dice)
> Hands, 1, 1
> Dewclaws,, 2, 2
> Vargr claw, 2, 2
> Vargr teeth, 4, 2
>
> I just don't know how this translates to TNE. :-(
>
>