Thread: The Kinunir's computer

In Adventure 1 the Kinunir class vessels were said to be fitted with a
limited AI system tied in to the ships security system. Incidently I had a
similar model fitted to the Cause Rampant in my Banners campaign.

Would the Regency have still had the remaining Kinunirs in service in the
post virus era given that in the Regency at least they were a none standard
design. I was wondering on the technology behind the "limited" AI, based on
when they were built 1074-1089 these would be very old ships of a non
standard design with a non Cymbeline origin (presumably) AI. Was this
developed in the Spinward Marches - certainly a project for one of the
Imperial Research facilities. What else was this AI used on and were there
any other types.

I also vaguely remember that the Solee had some vessels of this type, though
looking at the TNE version the black globe was gone (makes sense) and they
seemed underarmed to me. These were presumably patterned on the one given to
the Vegans. But why would the imperium start building this odd vessel in
this area given its troubled history in the Spinward Marches?

Then given the self-preservation instinct found in the malfunctioning AI on
Kinunir it may have helped in the development of both the virus inserted in
Averys AHL and other anti-viral weaponry developed by the Regency.

This is one of the things I liked about TNE you could always come up with
something from the backstories and tie them together in interesting ways.

Antony

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2177 / Virus Database: 2437/5088 - Release Date: 06/23/12

Antony--

First, check out this note at the bottom of your message:

> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.2177 / Virus Database: 2437/5088 - Release Date: 06/23/12

That is such a lie, you said "virus" two or three times.

> Would the Regency have still had the remaining Kinunirs in service in the
> post virus era given that in the Regency at least they were a none
> standard
> design.

The Kinunirs were established as being something of a "dog" of a design in
Adventure 1, already being taken out of service. However, the Regency is
re-using everything it can get its hands on, so any Kinunirs lying around
in mothballs would be refurbished and re-used in some fashion. However, as
part of the refurbishing, the first thing to be improved would be
electronics, so I would not say that limited AI system would still be in
them.

> I was wondering on the technology behind the "limited" AI, based
> on
> when they were built 1074-1089 these would be very old ships of a non
> standard design with a non Cymbeline origin (presumably) AI. Was this
> developed in the Spinward Marches - certainly a project for one of the
> Imperial Research facilities. What else was this AI used on and were there
> any other types.

My clear sense of Traveller was that Imperial Navy starships were largely
manufactured locally, perhaps to a common design, for obvious reasons. And
I think that Kinunir gave the shipyards that all were built in, and all
were in SM, so yes, treat all of that as local home-grown technology.

Me recollection is that the AI was deemed unsuccessful, and so was
probably not re-used. However, Traveller was very skittish about ever
admitting that anything was "truly" AI or not, so the word "limited AI"
was tossed around quite a bit without really meaning anything, like people
lying about their age. Google and that lady's voice on the new iPhone that
that putz Malkovich is in love with are "limited AI" by the standards of
1980.

> I also vaguely remember that the Solee had some vessels of this type,
> though
> looking at the TNE version the black globe was gone (makes sense) and they
> seemed underarmed to me. These were presumably patterned on the one given
> to
> the Vegans. But why would the imperium start building this odd vessel in
> this area given its troubled history in the Spinward Marches?

I think that's two questions:

1. Solee use. Although the ships were dogs, they were an established
design that would take you back and create a connection with the original
CT adventure, so were used for that reason. Anytime we could make a
reference back to our roots, we liked to do that. Arrival Vengeance was
another example. As I recall, the AHLs were no great shakes as High Guard
designs, but there were deckplans, dammit!

2. Why did they build Kinunirs for the Vegans? Given my point about
starships being built locally, that doesn't make a lot of sense. There
probably would have been a better local design down there, and it would
have taken longer to ship the plans by Xboat to Sol Rim then just to build
the local standard design. But Kinunir was written before my time.
Probably the reasoning is that some corrupt industrialist-noble paid off
some other corrupt noble-diplomat paid off some other corrupt noble-naval
officer to get the Kinunirs built down there for probably eighteen times
what they should have cost, and had drinks and cigars afterwards.

> Then given the self-preservation instinct found in the malfunctioning AI
> on
> Kinunir it may have helped in the development of both the virus inserted
> in
> Averys AHL and other anti-viral weaponry developed by the Regency.

I agree that the local RS experience in the Regency with things like that
are directly related to how they were able to "breed" "tame" versions of
Virus.

> This is one of the things I liked about TNE you could always come up with
> something from the backstories and tie them together in interesting ways.

Yes, even if the older things were mistakes, they could be helpful that way.

> Antony

Richard--

I would ABSOLUTELY say that your Kinunir is one of the originals
mentioned. It has to be because it is so cool. Original mag wheels,
captain's leather seat. Go down and look for the dedication plaque on the
keelplate, I guarantee it will back you up.

Dave

> Anthony
>
> Agree wit Dave, the Kinuir is a useful design for piracy supression and
> for putting down minor fires - 35 marines, and APC and a pinnace are very
> useful for stamping on minor brushfires. I imagine the AI system was
> severely toned down either on the loss of the Kinuir or when she was found
> - the library data already said the AI was tempremental.
>
> With the virus - AI turned off.
>
> As for Solee - they have 1 kinuir - I always thought it was the one given
> to the vegans by the emperess. With the wholesale retreat of imperial
> forces from the solomani rim - it might have ended up here. Or it got
> captured by the Solomani and then re-used as the war got into its
> meat-grinder phase. That area of Diaspora was under the control of
> solomani liberal wing - so they might have ended up with it.
>
> Cheers
> Richard
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 9:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [Traveller_TNE] The Kinunir's computer
>
>
>
> Antony--
>
> First, check out this note at the bottom of your message:
>
> > -----
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 2012.0.2177 / Virus Database: 2437/5088 - Release Date:
> 06/23/12
>
> That is such a lie, you said "virus" two or three times.
>
> > Would the Regency have still had the remaining Kinunirs in service in
> the
> > post virus era given that in the Regency at least they were a none
> > standard
> > design.
>
> The Kinunirs were established as being something of a "dog" of a design
> in
> Adventure 1, already being taken out of service. However, the Regency is
> re-using everything it can get its hands on, so any Kinunirs lying
> around
> in mothballs would be refurbished and re-used in some fashion. However,
> as
> part of the refurbishing, the first thing to be improved would be
> electronics, so I would not say that limited AI system would still be in
> them.
>
> > I was wondering on the technology behind the "limited" AI, based
> > on
> > when they were built 1074-1089 these would be very old ships of a non
> > standard design with a non Cymbeline origin (presumably) AI. Was this
> > developed in the Spinward Marches - certainly a project for one of the
> > Imperial Research facilities. What else was this AI used on and were
> there
> > any other types.
>
> My clear sense of Traveller was that Imperial Navy starships were
> largely
> manufactured locally, perhaps to a common design, for obvious reasons.
> And
> I think that Kinunir gave the shipyards that all were built in, and all
> were in SM, so yes, treat all of that as local home-grown technology.
>
> Me recollection is that the AI was deemed unsuccessful, and so was
> probably not re-used. However, Traveller was very skittish about ever
> admitting that anything was "truly" AI or not, so the word "limited AI"
> was tossed around quite a bit without really meaning anything, like
> people
> lying about their age. Google and that lady's voice on the new iPhone
> that
> that putz Malkovich is in love with are "limited AI" by the standards of
> 1980.
>
> > I also vaguely remember that the Solee had some vessels of this type,
> > though
> > looking at the TNE version the black globe was gone (makes sense) and
> they
> > seemed underarmed to me. These were presumably patterned on the one
> given
> > to
> > the Vegans. But why would the imperium start building this odd vessel
> in
> > this area given its troubled history in the Spinward Marches?
>
> I think that's two questions:
>
> 1. Solee use. Although the ships were dogs, they were an established
> design that would take you back and create a connection with the
> original
> CT adventure, so were used for that reason. Anytime we could make a
> reference back to our roots, we liked to do that. Arrival Vengeance was
> another example. As I recall, the AHLs were no great shakes as High
> Guard
> designs, but there were deckplans, dammit!
>
> 2. Why did they build Kinunirs for the Vegans? Given my point about
> starships being built locally, that doesn't make a lot of sense. There
> probably would have been a better local design down there, and it would
> have taken longer to ship the plans by Xboat to Sol Rim then just to
> build
> the local standard design. But Kinunir was written before my time.
> Probably the reasoning is that some corrupt industrialist-noble paid off
> some other corrupt noble-diplomat paid off some other corrupt
> noble-naval
> officer to get the Kinunirs built down there for probably eighteen times
> what they should have cost, and had drinks and cigars afterwards.
>
> > Then given the self-preservation instinct found in the malfunctioning
> AI
> > on
> > Kinunir it may have helped in the development of both the virus
> inserted
> > in
> > Averys AHL and other anti-viral weaponry developed by the Regency.
>
> I agree that the local RS experience in the Regency with things like
> that
> are directly related to how they were able to "breed" "tame" versions of
> Virus.
>
> > This is one of the things I liked about TNE you could always come up
> with
> > something from the backstories and tie them together in interesting
> ways.
>
> Yes, even if the older things were mistakes, they could be helpful that
> way.
>
> > Antony
>
>
>
>

OK, since I still have the LBB of 'The Kinunir' I decided to put ,my
research goggles on and break it out and grab some useful tidbits from it.

The Following is a list of officially contracted yards that built Kinunirs.
In total 21 hulls were built.
Ling Standard
Mars
general
GSB,AG
clan Severn
yard 17

by 1105, 15 remain in service
6 of them, including the name bearer Kinunir, were declared lost or
defunct, General shipyards constructed 4 and all 4 were failed vessels at
one point or another. General Shipyards is the only yard as far as I can
tell that is a spinward states shipyard. LSP, being a Megacorp, could have
built them in any yard in the Old imperium.and yard 17 is actually
specified as building them at superior quality. and since they built 6 of
them, it may be reasonably assumed theirs were the ones that have survived
to the new ea, if any did.
The Navy decided to discontinue production in 1089
the design has been around since the fourth frontier war, Where the Allamu
and the Ninkur sagga were lost in the "battle of two suns" in 1084 between
yres and Menorb.
So, with so few Kinunirs actually in service before the Hard times and the
collapse, it is a wonder that ANY survived to the new era. so how can we
explain that detail away?
Easy, the designs were standard, had been around for decades, and after the
Black War began, a beefier version of the broadsword Merc cruiser became a
necessity. Well off and Successful Merc Units may well have resurrected the
life of the kinunir class as a worthier version of a merc cruiser
considering it is actually BETTER at the broadswords job than the
broadsword itself. So in all likelihood, most, if not ALL kinunirs
mentioned in TNE are likely of hard times era construction.
There is also a possibility that some were constructed "unofficialy" by
yards OUTSIDE the Imperium depending on how the original Kinunir adventure
played itself out based on 'The Scrapyard" version of the Players encounter
with a patron looking for specific construction details of a Kinunir.
If someone were to use that reasoning, the vargr would probably paid well
for those designs as nothing in canon print claiming that Vargr possess an
equivalent, though the Aslan do.

--
"Christmas is a time when kids tell Santa what they want and adults pay for
it. Deficits are when adults tell the government what they want and their
kids pay for it."

Exactly right.

Plus, I loved the chance to resurrect or pay homage to old classic Trav
stuff, and the Kinunirs were definitely that. Everyone's first "big" ship.

Dave

> OK, since I still have the LBB of 'The Kinunir' I decided to put ,my
> research goggles on and break it out and grab some useful tidbits from it.
>
> The Following is a list of officially contracted yards that built
> Kinunirs.
> In total 21 hulls were built.
> Ling Standard
> Mars
> general
> GSB,AG
> clan Severn
> yard 17
>
> by 1105, 15 remain in service
> 6 of them, including the name bearer Kinunir, were declared lost or
> defunct, General shipyards constructed 4 and all 4 were failed vessels at
> one point or another. General Shipyards is the only yard as far as I can
> tell that is a spinward states shipyard. LSP, being a Megacorp, could have
> built them in any yard in the Old imperium.and yard 17 is actually
> specified as building them at superior quality. and since they built 6 of
> them, it may be reasonably assumed theirs were the ones that have survived
> to the new ea, if any did.
> The Navy decided to discontinue production in 1089
> the design has been around since the fourth frontier war, Where the Allamu
> and the Ninkur sagga were lost in the "battle of two suns" in 1084 between
> yres and Menorb.
> So, with so few Kinunirs actually in service before the Hard times and the
> collapse, it is a wonder that ANY survived to the new era. so how can we
> explain that detail away?
> Easy, the designs were standard, had been around for decades, and after
> the
> Black War began, a beefier version of the broadsword Merc cruiser became a
> necessity. Well off and Successful Merc Units may well have resurrected
> the
> life of the kinunir class as a worthier version of a merc cruiser
> considering it is actually BETTER at the broadswords job than the
> broadsword itself. So in all likelihood, most, if not ALL kinunirs
> mentioned in TNE are likely of hard times era construction.
> There is also a possibility that some were constructed "unofficialy" by
> yards OUTSIDE the Imperium depending on how the original Kinunir adventure
> played itself out based on 'The Scrapyard" version of the Players
> encounter
> with a patron looking for specific construction details of a Kinunir.
> If someone were to use that reasoning, the vargr would probably paid well
> for those designs as nothing in canon print claiming that Vargr possess an
> equivalent, though the Aslan do.
>
>
> --
> "Christmas is a time when kids tell Santa what they want and adults pay
> for
> it. Deficits are when adults tell the government what they want and their
> kids pay for it."
>