Thread: Solee

Dave,

if I might ask for a bit more detail on who you saw the RC-Solee encounter working out? I know previously you said that RC would ally with Sandman to "defeat" Solee and that this would dirty their hands for the future meeting with Regency.

But how exactly did you see the Solee War(?) working out. As you mentioned, Solee is an awfully tough nut for RC to chew on (and fighting the early naval battles included in Battlerider highlighted that). I think it fair to say that over the years since you went offline more than a few TNE players have pondered this one.

Grateful for any insights you might offer.

So many mails here each day that I think it might be best to reply in bulk - just one mail with a lot of Qs and observations. If it breaks ettiquette, please let me know so I can adjust my social emulation protocols appropriately.

Montezuma seemed to be the really hopeless case in TNE, a reasonable space force - but hampered by a low supporting tech level. Really could only be upgraded if the Guild decided to help them out in order to cause the RC trouble.

Solee, whilst having novice crews, was trying to gain experience - at least according to the 'First Clash' BR scenario. They also had the advantage of having a higher tech level, and possible access to even better tech through their friend Kmak (possible Tech-13 relic eqpt).

Solee would also be a hard nut to crack - I wonder if any resolution could achieve more than getting Solee to back down and play nice: Solee, Sovtor, Hindahl all have no gas giants for refuelling, and Kmak has only one. Would make for a 'Rump Solee' that could sit things out and wait if necessary. Of course, internal revolution or even internal dynamics could throw a spanner in those works. Having a 'Rump Solee' would be interesting from a setting background.

Experience does also seem to come to those who are amenable to learning from their mistakes - Kide's star force is experienced, so perhaps with the right attitude Solee could benefit too (or maybe even come to Kide looking to ally and open another front against the RC - though that may be beneath the Empress).

PoT gives Solee planning a naval campaign in the Shenk Rimward Main - perhaps an indication that they're moving to a 'controlling the space between the stars' attitude rather than the 'boots on the ground' operations they undertook on Marcena and Hindahl. Would be an excellent opportunity to clear the Guild out of their area too.

I'll toss this in as my last observation on this, but probably the best
route from the RC's perspective would be to engineer a change in
leadership in Solee so you could take that energy and get it working for
you rather than against. Sounds like the kind of thing that could use some
Hiver help.

Those points are NOT "what GDW would have done," as it's pretty clear the
last couple days that my memory on this is not great, but simply my
thoughts on what are options RC should try.

> So many mails here each day that I think it might be best to reply in bulk
> - just one mail with a lot of Qs and observations. If it breaks
> ettiquette, please let me know so I can adjust my social emulation
> protocols appropriately.
>
> Montezuma seemed to be the really hopeless case in TNE, a reasonable space
> force - but hampered by a low supporting tech level. Really could only be
> upgraded if the Guild decided to help them out in order to cause the RC
> trouble.
>
> Solee, whilst having novice crews, was trying to gain experience - at
> least according to the 'First Clash' BR scenario. They also had the
> advantage of having a higher tech level, and possible access to even
> better tech through their friend Kmak (possible Tech-13 relic eqpt).
>
> Solee would also be a hard nut to crack - I wonder if any resolution could
> achieve more than getting Solee to back down and play nice: Solee, Sovtor,
> Hindahl all have no gas giants for refuelling, and Kmak has only one.
> Would make for a 'Rump Solee' that could sit things out and wait if
> necessary. Of course, internal revolution or even internal dynamics could
> throw a spanner in those works. Having a 'Rump Solee' would be interesting
> from a setting background.
>
> Experience does also seem to come to those who are amenable to learning
> from their mistakes - Kide's star force is experienced, so perhaps with
> the right attitude Solee could benefit too (or maybe even come to Kide
> looking to ally and open another front against the RC - though that may be
> beneath the Empress).
>
> PoT gives Solee planning a naval campaign in the Shenk Rimward Main -
> perhaps an indication that they're moving to a 'controlling the space
> between the stars' attitude rather than the 'boots on the ground'
> operations they undertook on Marcena and Hindahl. Would be an excellent
> opportunity to clear the Guild out of their area too.
>

While I did get the sense of their being conscripted and relatively
incompetent, your precise analogy of the Soviet Navy in space helps pin
them down far more, so I hope I can get you speak more to Solee.

Don't beat yourself up on the memory. It's a relatively minor piece of
trivia and it's more than possible Frank put that in without a big
discussion on it. What GDW would have done is interesting, but I'm more
interested in not just what you yourself may have done (with or without
having to compromise with not just Frank and co-workers, etc and the
dynamics of the fan base and larger industry), but most especially what you
would do in a campaign now. IOW, your ideal and general "moral of the
story" as it were coupled with all the benefits of experience and hindsight
of the last couple decades.

On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 9:42 AM, <> wrote:

>
>
> I'll toss this in as my last observation on this, but probably the best
> route from the RC's perspective would be to engineer a change in
> leadership in Solee so you could take that energy and get it working for
> you rather than against. Sounds like the kind of thing that could use some
> Hiver help.
>
> Those points are NOT "what GDW would have done," as it's pretty clear the
> last couple days that my memory on this is not great, but simply my
> thoughts on what are options RC should try.
>
>
>
>

Thanks, I appreciate that. And as in my previous reply, I am prepared to
speak on, "what would I do in a campaign now."

And I guess I'd start off with, the best route for Solee is to co-opt it
in some fashion. Since what you've got is an aggregation of worlds working
under some notion of "common cause" under the Cristen Overtak, why not get
them working for some other common cause? Certainly these worlds have
different self-interests subsumed/controlled/manipulated by the Overtak
which could find outlet in some other way, i.e., in a way more congruent
with the RC. Much easier to repaint the ships "Our Side" than have to blow
them up and build new ones first.

An obvious thought is, "that's the sort of thing Hivers do." So, are the
Hivers already doing something here? How do you get a Hiver to help you
manipulate something? If you as the RC manipulate Solee directly, the
Hivers will just say that was part of their master plan anyway.

Dave

> While I did get the sense of their being conscripted and relatively
> incompetent, your precise analogy of the Soviet Navy in space helps pin
> them down far more, so I hope I can get you speak more to Solee.
>
> Don't beat yourself up on the memory. It's a relatively minor piece of
> trivia and it's more than possible Frank put that in without a big
> discussion on it. What GDW would have done is interesting, but I'm more
> interested in not just what you yourself may have done (with or without
> having to compromise with not just Frank and co-workers, etc and the
> dynamics of the fan base and larger industry), but most especially what
> you
> would do in a campaign now. IOW, your ideal and general "moral of the
> story" as it were coupled with all the benefits of experience and
> hindsight
> of the last couple decades.
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 9:42 AM, <> wrote:
>

Makes sense. I guess the question is whether Gabriella Ramastan
has a relatively open mind or if she believes her own propaganda.
Is she driving the expansionist Solee ambitions or mitigating
bellicose pressures on her own society with a larger ideal? If
the Soviet analogy holds, one wonders if she's a Gorbechev who
thinks she can deal with freedom piecemeal or if she's a Yeltsin
and hopeful harbinger of greater ideals.
Sounds like the progress of the war will be the coalition
outgunned but bettering the Solee with superior tech, asymmetric
tactics, and an ave in the hole: sandman. That will remove the
interstellar threat perhaps, but an invasion or decap of Solee
itself would be extremely difficult in the short term, if not
outside the Coalitions capability.
The Hiver angle solves that dilemma. Is the Exposer of Deceit
along for the ride? :D the optimist in me will hope that Solee
doesn't end up in the clutches of a Putin when the starfish are
making their claims
---
from my T989

wrote:


Thanks, I appreciate that. And as in my previous reply, I am
prepared to
speak on, "what would I do in a campaign now."

And I guess I'd start off with, the best route for Solee is to
co-opt it
in some fashion. Since what you've got is an aggregation of
worlds working
under some notion of "common cause" under the Cristen Overtak,
why not get
them working for some other common cause? Certainly these worlds
have
different self-interests subsumed/controlled/manipulated by the
Overtak
which could find outlet in some other way, i.e., in a way more
congruent
with the RC. Much easier to repaint the ships "Our Side" than
have to blow
them up and build new ones first.

An obvious thought is, "that's the sort of thing Hivers do." So,
are the
Hivers already doing something here? How do you get a Hiver to
help you
manipulate something? If you as the RC manipulate Solee directly,
the
Hivers will just say that was part of their master plan anyway.

Dave

> While I did get the sense of their being conscripted and
relatively
> incompetent, your precise analogy of the Soviet Navy in space
helps pin
> them down far more, so I hope I can get you speak more to
Solee.
>
> Don't beat yourself up on the memory. It's a relatively minor
piece of
> trivia and it's more than possible Frank put that in without a
big
> discussion on it. What GDW would have done is interesting, but
I'm more
> interested in not just what you yourself may have done (with or
without
> having to compromise with not just Frank and co-workers, etc
and the
> dynamics of the fan base and larger industry), but most
especially what
> you
> would do in a campaign now. IOW, your ideal and general
"moral of the
> story" as it were coupled with all the benefits of experience
and
> hindsight
> of the last couple decades.
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 9:42 AM, <
<> > wrote:
>