Thread: Aslan question

By the way, since it was mentioned in one of the recent posts (and as long as it doesn't start some kind of massive debate) what is with the dislike of the Aslan? I think that they are one of the coolest of the Alien races. Hence my love of the Reavers' Deep area.

But most of my players prefer humans, or even Vargr! I did write the Ithklur into my Reavers' Deep story as I like the book (sorry, no gushing here yet) but took out the Hivers as they just didn't fit. I have seen the Aslan rewrite referenced in The Spinward States by Mike, which I madly dug off the CD (thanks FFE!) and will read tonight.

Maybe I haven't been playing long enough but I just like the way the Aslan work. In saying that, however, I have promoted one of the minor races in the Reavers' Deep which is fast becoming my favorite race.

Question for Dave, or anyone else who might know, but what was the future of the Aslan Hierate after TNE? I have seen plenty from all other parts of the Traveller universe but all is quiet in my neck of space, or is it just that dislike of the Aslan coming out?

Brett.

For me, it's a personal preference, and you should utterly disregard it.
They struck me as a little stylized, but they are an established and
important part of the Traveller universe, and the point behind the
universe
is to have lots of places where people can do the things they individually
like. And if people like me say they weren't my favorite, you should tell
me to shut up, because it's not my business. There was, and certainly
should be no such thing as a systemic dislike of the Aslan. They were a
part of Traveller, period, and would remain so. Please don't think that it
is your inexperience that makes you like the Aslan. The problem is people
like me with their big mouths.

As far as their future in TNE, I'm trying to remember what we had in RSB.
There was some stuff in there about the Aslan colonies, but honestly I
can't remember it clearly enough, and my copies of the book are in a
storage unit, not here in the house.

I would say, honestly, that most of our planning attention was on the
areas between the RC and Regency where we knew the expansion to re-explore
the old Imperium would take place. The stuff on the borders of the old 3I
didn't get as much attention.

And that just reminds me about a previous post, yes, the Empress Wave was
set up to do a number on the Zhodani, and there was going to be a specific
impact it was going to have on the Vargr as well, but I can't remember
right now. The Aslan, I can't remember yet. Probably Mike West could say
better, as he knows RSB pretty well.

On Sun, 10 Jun 2012 07:27:19 -0000, "krugerbf" <>
wrote:
> By the way, since it was mentioned in one of the recent posts (and as
> long as it doesn't start some kind of massive debate) what is with the
> dislike of the Aslan? I think that they are one of the coolest of the
> Alien races. Hence my love of the Reavers' Deep area.
>
> But most of my players prefer humans, or even Vargr! I did write the
> Ithklur into my Reavers' Deep story as I like the book (sorry, no
gushing
> here yet) but took out the Hivers as they just didn't fit. I have seen
> the Aslan rewrite referenced in The Spinward States by Mike, which I
> madly dug off the CD (thanks FFE!) and will read tonight.
>
> Maybe I haven't been playing long enough but I just like the way the
> Aslan work. In saying that, however, I have promoted one of the minor
> races in the Reavers' Deep which is fast becoming my favorite race.
>
> Question for Dave, or anyone else who might know, but what was the
> future of the Aslan Hierate after TNE? I have seen plenty from all other
> parts of the Traveller universe but all is quiet in my neck of space, or
> is it just that dislike of the Aslan coming out?
>
> Brett.
>
>
>

On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 12:27 AM, krugerbf <> wrote:

> By the way, since it was mentioned in one of the recent posts (and as long
> as it doesn't start some kind of massive debate) what is with the dislike
> of the Aslan?

The opinion I have heard it is the problem is making
them Stereotypical Japanese warriors in cat suits. Mind you the only Aslan
I have ever played was a Sushi Chef, who took all that Stereotype and
applied it to "HIS" Kitchen.

> But most of my players prefer humans, or even Vargr! I did write the
> Ithklur into my Reavers' Deep story as I like the book (sorry, no gushing
> here yet) but took out the Hivers as they just didn't fit. I have seen the
> Aslan rewrite referenced in The Spinward States by Mike, which I madly dug
> off the CD (thanks FFE!) and will read tonight.
>

No HIVERS!?! Man you are missing some of the best characters in the setting.

--
Evyn

As I see it most player's haven't really dug into the Aslan history enough
to have informed opinions and simply use a generalized label like "Klingon
Like" to infer that they are aggressive warrior like and tend to not get
along with other species since they have a hard enough time just getting
along with others of their own kind (differing clans).

Second humans are the easiest for a player to relate to because their own
actual life experience lets them 'think' in the skin of the character
intuitively. They done have to go "what would an aslan do here?" in their
head when confronted with a problem. So most player's gravitate towards the
familiar.

Those that do dig into Aslan history for a character will find that in
several places that honor bound, aggressive, warrior label is in fact true
for male clan Aslan. So while the males have the 'hard power' in the clan
culture the female Aslan have the 'soft' power in their society. This leads
most folks through a 'human' lens to say I want to play a male scientist
type and think 'Aslan or female warrior type, nope!" And move on.

As a species the Aslan are pretty interesting and the history is very rich
but the structure their society has clear gender/function roles. Other
species do not.

On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 12:27 AM, krugerbf <> wrote:

> **
>
>
> By the way, since it was mentioned in one of the recent posts (and as long
> as it doesn't start some kind of massive debate) what is with the dislike
> of the Aslan? I think that they are one of the coolest of the Alien races.
> Hence my love of the Reavers' Deep area.
>
> But most of my players prefer humans, or even Vargr! I did write the
> Ithklur into my Reavers' Deep story as I like the book (sorry, no gushing
> here yet) but took out the Hivers as they just didn't fit. I have seen the
> Aslan rewrite referenced in The Spinward States by Mike, which I madly dug
> off the CD (thanks FFE!) and will read tonight.
>
> Maybe I haven't been playing long enough but I just like the way the Aslan
> work. In saying that, however, I have promoted one of the minor races in
> the Reavers' Deep which is fast becoming my favorite race.
>
> Question for Dave, or anyone else who might know, but what was the future
> of the Aslan Hierate after TNE? I have seen plenty from all other parts of
> the Traveller universe but all is quiet in my neck of space, or is it just
> that dislike of the Aslan coming out?
>
> Brett.
>
>
>

--
If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever happened to you
would have been deserved.

I liked to imagine the 'what if' on TNE supplements for the Aslan
and Terra and what not


___
>From my Galaxy SII

-------- Original message --------
Subject: Re: [Traveller_TNE] Aslan question



For me, it's a personal preference, and you should utterly
disregard it.
They struck me as a little stylized, but they are an established
and
important part of the Traveller universe, and the point behind
the
universe
is to have lots of places where people can do the things they
individually
like. And if people like me say they weren't my favorite, you
should tell
me to shut up, because it's not my business. There was, and
certainly
should be no such thing as a systemic dislike of the Aslan. They
were a
part of Traveller, period, and would remain so. Please don't
think that it
is your inexperience that makes you like the Aslan. The problem
is people
like me with their big mouths.

As far as their future in TNE, I'm trying to remember what we had
in RSB.
There was some stuff in there about the Aslan colonies, but
honestly I
can't remember it clearly enough, and my copies of the book are
in a
storage unit, not here in the house.

I would say, honestly, that most of our planning attention was on
the
areas between the RC and Regency where we knew the expansion to
re-explore
the old Imperium would take place. The stuff on the borders of
the old 3I
didn't get as much attention.

And that just reminds me about a previous post, yes, the Empress
Wave was
set up to do a number on the Zhodani, and there was going to be a
specific
impact it was going to have on the Vargr as well, but I can't
remember
right now. The Aslan, I can't remember yet. Probably Mike West
could say
better, as he knows RSB pretty well.

On Sun, 10 Jun 2012 07:27:19 -0000, "krugerbf"
< <krugerbf%

John Potter wrote:
> As I see it most player's haven't really dug into the Aslan history
> enough to have informed opinions and simply use a generalized
> label like "Klingon Like" to infer that they are aggressive warrior
> like and tend to not get along with other species since they have
> a hard enough time just getting along with others of their own
> kind (differing clans).

You are confusing two points. In my view, the Aslan had two huge
problems. One was the History and one was the Culture. I have
already gone over the Culture problem in another post, so, since
you brought it up, I will hit on that. :-)

The problem with the history is that it doesn't match their culture.
We are told over and over that the Aslan do not have a racial
identity. Instead, they have a clan identity. So, they are just as
likely to make war with another clan as they are to make war with
the empire of another race. That is just the way they are. But, within
the history, they are always attacking as a race. They move as a
race to battle with the Imperium, until they strike a treaty with the
Aslan race. (Yeah, they try to cover it with being a treaty with the
'clan of clans', but really, it is a treaty between the humans and the
Aslan, as all Aslan obey it.) They have skirmishes with the Solomani
as a race. They invade the Domain of Deneb as a race. And finally,
they take over most of the Domain's holdings in the Trojan Reach
as a race. That doesn't fit and, really, doesn't make any sense.

They tried to cover it by saying that it was really the ihatei that was
doing the invasion. But that doesn't fly either. In fact, the Regency
Sourcebook spends a lot of word count describing how pathetic
ihatei fleets actually are, how expensive they are to create, and how
rare they are. There just simply aren't enough ihatei fleets to do the
damage they are accused of. And there pretty much isn't any way that
they could take over the Tobin Duchy (much less Tobin itself).

So, really, the whole story of the Aslan through the Rebellion and the
Collapse makes no real sense the way it is portrayed. It just doesn't
fit.

What I did to deal with it is to say that the story that "everyone
knows" was a cover. What happened is that some anti-Imperial clans
made war with the Domain while they could, knowing it would have
to be quick and decisive before they lost all of their home holdings
to clans that would decide their unguarded homes were juicier targets
than the Regency. Tobin didn't fall; rather the duke decided that
Norris wasn't paying enough attention in that direction, so he cut a
deal with the Aslan clans. His duchy then realigned under the Aslan
banner. The whole "everyone knows" cover story is the nonsense that
Norris put out to save face over the idea that a Domain Duke deserted.
(And he paid for that choice with his life when Norris could finally
refocus his forces.)

(And note that even my explanation doesn't hold together that well,
as the other clans wouldn't wait like I made them. They would have
struck immediately after the war fleets left for the Domain of Deneb.
The war clans would have had nothing to come back to. I just hand-
waved the delay to make it all work.)

Mike West

Just to make sure we aren't confusion our points Mike my previous post was
to try and explain the 'why' players tended to not play Aslan characters.

In my view its simply psychological familiarity and empathy.of normal
people as compared to knowledge or lack there of in regards to Aslan as a
species and possibilities.

On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 9:58 AM, Mike West <> wrote:

> **
>
>
>
> John Potter wrote:
> > As I see it most player's haven't really dug into the Aslan history
> > enough to have informed opinions and simply use a generalized
> > label like "Klingon Like" to infer that they are aggressive warrior
> > like and tend to not get along with other species since they have
> > a hard enough time just getting along with others of their own
> > kind (differing clans).
>
> You are confusing two points. In my view, the Aslan had two huge
> problems. One was the History and one was the Culture. I have
> already gone over the Culture problem in another post, so, since
> you brought it up, I will hit on that. :-)
>
> The problem with the history is that it doesn't match their culture.
> We are told over and over that the Aslan do not have a racial
> identity. Instead, they have a clan identity. So, they are just as
> likely to make war with another clan as they are to make war with
> the empire of another race. That is just the way they are. But, within
> the history, they are always attacking as a race. They move as a
> race to battle with the Imperium, until they strike a treaty with the
> Aslan race. (Yeah, they try to cover it with being a treaty with the
> 'clan of clans', but really, it is a treaty between the humans and the
> Aslan, as all Aslan obey it.) They have skirmishes with the Solomani
> as a race. They invade the Domain of Deneb as a race. And finally,
> they take over most of the Domain's holdings in the Trojan Reach
> as a race. That doesn't fit and, really, doesn't make any sense.
>
> They tried to cover it by saying that it was really the ihatei that was
> doing the invasion. But that doesn't fly either. In fact, the Regency
> Sourcebook spends a lot of word count describing how pathetic
> ihatei fleets actually are, how expensive they are to create, and how
> rare they are. There just simply aren't enough ihatei fleets to do the
> damage they are accused of. And there pretty much isn't any way that
> they could take over the Tobin Duchy (much less Tobin itself).
>
> So, really, the whole story of the Aslan through the Rebellion and the
> Collapse makes no real sense the way it is portrayed. It just doesn't
> fit.
>
> What I did to deal with it is to say that the story that "everyone
> knows" was a cover. What happened is that some anti-Imperial clans
> made war with the Domain while they could, knowing it would have
> to be quick and decisive before they lost all of their home holdings
> to clans that would decide their unguarded homes were juicier targets
> than the Regency. Tobin didn't fall; rather the duke decided that
> Norris wasn't paying enough attention in that direction, so he cut a
> deal with the Aslan clans. His duchy then realigned under the Aslan
> banner. The whole "everyone knows" cover story is the nonsense that
> Norris put out to save face over the idea that a Domain Duke deserted.
> (And he paid for that choice with his life when Norris could finally
> refocus his forces.)
>
> (And note that even my explanation doesn't hold together that well,
> as the other clans wouldn't wait like I made them. They would have
> struck immediately after the war fleets left for the Domain of Deneb.
> The war clans would have had nothing to come back to. I just hand-
> waved the delay to make it all work.)
>
> Mike West
>
>
>
>

--
If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever happened to you
would have been deserved.

Also, one thing I forgot to mention: It was really MT that messed with
the Aslan history. Really, the Regency Sourcebook tried to remove a
lot of the silliness, but they still had to leave what was written alone.

So, in the Regency Sourcebook, the Regency had reclaimed all of their
territory "taken" by the Aslan. (So, for example, the Domain holdings
in the Trojan Reach were Regency holdings.) They also retconned
the penetration of the Aslan back by at least a subsector. (MT had
the Aslan knocking on the door of Glisten. TNE pushed them back
outside the Spinward Marches.)

The Aslan in the Regency Sourcebook were bottled up. They had lost
all of their ancestral homelands, and had completely lost the entire
J5 route across the Rift. All they had left were their spinward holdings
in the Trojan Reach and Beyond. They also had little area to try and
expand. They were beholden to the Regency for their protection from
Virus, but resented it and resented the limitations the Regency had
placed on them (like no going back across the Rift). So, it was a very
tense situation. It was a powderkeg waiting for a match. (Which, of
course, was left to happen after 1202.)

In addition to that dynamic, there were also millions (probably billions)
of Aslan left in reclaimed Regency territory. These Aslan were allowed
to stay as long as they toed the Regency line. This, of course, pissed
off the other occupants on those worlds who felt that the Regency
was giving a free pass to their "invaders" and occupiers.

Also, the Regency was trying to apply the lessons learned by the
Darrians in how to coopt the Aslan. They would hire willing Aslan to
the defense force (forgot the name) with the promises of land in
the Regency (and, presumably, the buffer zone). This was done
hoping that they could "domesticate" (my word, not Dave's) the Aslan
into proper Regency citizens, like the Darrians had done to the Aslan
that had settled in the Darrian Confederation.

Mike West

But what Mike MEANT to say was, "the Aslan are cool if you like them,
they're just not my cup of tea." See? Peace and harmony. :-)

So that's what I said in RSB? I remember thinking about some "wheels
within wheels" to revisit later, but I can't remember right now, without
the book in front of me.

But what you're getting at is the angst of a designer, when you have to
dig into what's been published, and realize, "man, some of what we've
published just isn't true," because you're the guy that's going to have to
fix it. Having had to re-read EVERYTHING put out about the Spinward Marches
from CT onwards to update it, I remember writing somewhere, "I know more
about the internal inconsistencies of Traveller than anyone alive, and I
know where all the bodies are buried, and I ain't telling." Some of them
were easy, like when Frank published two different names for the Empress of
Solee, and I turned one into an honorific atop her given name. But some,
especially in the Spinward Marches, were not as easy, especially since they
were so old and established. But my compass was always not to say, "oops,
this is wrong, use this information instead," unless it was absolutely
necessary. Instead, find a way of seeing them as things that were each true
in their own right, and doing something with the tension between two
different interpretations.

Heck, one of the big secrets was that there were multiple editions of the
LBBs (and LBB compilations and Traveller Book that followed) that had some
pretty major changes that were never called attention to. You just had to
trip over them.

One example of a big wholesale change was fixing the mess of all of the
bad stars from the DGP computer run, complete with all of the
record-stuck-

Ah, there we are. That was some of the "wheels within wheels" that I was
trying to remember referenced in my previous post.

Thanks for laying that out, Mike.

On Sun, 10 Jun 2012 12:19:36 -0500, "Mike West" <>
wrote:
> Also, one thing I forgot to mention: It was really MT that messed with
> the Aslan history. Really, the Regency Sourcebook tried to remove a
> lot of the silliness, but they still had to leave what was written
> alone.
>
> So, in the Regency Sourcebook, the Regency had reclaimed all of their
> territory "taken" by the Aslan. (So, for example, the Domain holdings
> in the Trojan Reach were Regency holdings.) They also retconned
> the penetration of the Aslan back by at least a subsector. (MT had
> the Aslan knocking on the door of Glisten. TNE pushed them back
> outside the Spinward Marches.)
>
> The Aslan in the Regency Sourcebook were bottled up. They had lost
> all of their ancestral homelands, and had completely lost the entire
> J5 route across the Rift. All they had left were their spinward
> holdings
> in the Trojan Reach and Beyond. They also had little area to try and
> expand. They were beholden to the Regency for their protection from
> Virus, but resented it and resented the limitations the Regency had
> placed on them (like no going back across the Rift). So, it was a very
> tense situation. It was a powderkeg waiting for a match. (Which, of
> course, was left to happen after 1202.)
>
> In addition to that dynamic, there were also millions (probably
> billions)
> of Aslan left in reclaimed Regency territory. These Aslan were allowed
> to stay as long as they toed the Regency line. This, of course, pissed
> off the other occupants on those worlds who felt that the Regency
> was giving a free pass to their "invaders" and occupiers.
>
> Also, the Regency was trying to apply the lessons learned by the
> Darrians in how to coopt the Aslan. They would hire willing Aslan to
> the defense force (forgot the name) with the promises of land in
> the Regency (and, presumably, the buffer zone). This was done
> hoping that they could "domesticate" (my word, not Dave's) the Aslan
> into proper Regency citizens, like the Darrians had done to the Aslan
> that had settled in the Darrian Confederation.
>
> Mike West
> [1]
>
>
>

wrote:
> But what Mike MEANT to say was, "the Aslan are cool if you like them,
> they're just not my cup of tea." See? Peace and harmony. :-)

OK, I can go with that.

Please understand that I simply state my opinion. When dealing with
a fictional game universe I didn't create, that is pretty much all I can
do. I can read all of it I want, but in the end it is just my opinion.

I apologize for not using all of the qualifications and prequalifiers on
my statements, but they are there. Outside of 1248 Spinward States,
all I can do is state my opinion. And that is all I claim.

And just because I don't like something doesn't mean I don't think
anyone else should. Use what you like. Ignore the rest, regardless
of who wrote what. The point is to have fun, not figure out who
is "right".

> So that's what I said in RSB? I remember thinking about some "wheels
> within wheels" to revisit later, but I can't remember right now,
> without the book in front of me.

As you found my followup email, I think we are good. All I want to add
is that I described what I *read*, which could have very little to
do with what you actually *meant*. I think I understood most, if not
all, of it correctly, but it is entirely possible I simply went off and
completely missed the point you were trying to make. (Though, based
on your follow up, it looks like I was at least close enough.)

Mike West

I always thought of it as analogous to the First Crusade. enemies
at home go abroad to fight a foreign enemy. IMTU is a major bloc
of the Tlakhu with their mainline forces using ihatei as cover. I
like your cover story too and will incorporate if and when my RC
campaign should encounter the Regency


___
>From my Galaxy SII

-------- Original message --------
Subject: Re: [Traveller_TNE] Aslan question
From: Mike West




John Potter wrote:
> As I see it most player's haven't really dug into the Aslan
history
> enough to have informed opinions and simply use a generalized
> label like "Klingon Like" to infer that they are aggressive
warrior
> like and tend to not get along with other species since they
have
> a hard enough time just getting along with others of their own
> kind (differing clans).

You are confusing two points. In my view, the Aslan had two huge
problems. One was the History and one was the Culture. I have
already gone over the Culture problem in another post, so, since
you brought it up, I will hit on that. :-)

The problem with the history is that it doesn't match their
culture.
We are told over and over that the Aslan do not have a racial
identity. Instead, they have a clan identity. So, they are just
as
likely to make war with another clan as they are to make war with
the empire of another race. That is just the way they are. But,
within
the history, they are always attacking as a race. They move as a
race to battle with the Imperium, until they strike a treaty with
the
Aslan race. (Yeah, they try to cover it with being a treaty with
the
'clan of clans', but really, it is a treaty between the humans
and the
Aslan, as all Aslan obey it.) They have skirmishes with the
Solomani
as a race. They invade the Domain of Deneb as a race. And
finally,
they take over most of the Domain's holdings in the Trojan Reach
as a race. That doesn't fit and, really, doesn't make any sense.

They tried to cover it by saying that it was really the ihatei
that was
doing the invasion. But that doesn't fly either. In fact, the
Regency
Sourcebook spends a lot of word count describing how pathetic
ihatei fleets actually are, how expensive they are to create, and
how
rare they are. There just simply aren't enough ihatei fleets to
do the
damage they are accused of. And there pretty much isn't any way
that
they could take over the Tobin Duchy (much less Tobin itself).

So, really, the whole story of the Aslan through the Rebellion
and the
Collapse makes no real sense the way it is portrayed. It just
doesn't
fit.

What I did to deal with it is to say that the story that
"everyone
knows" was a cover. What happened is that some anti-Imperial
clans
made war with the Domain while they could, knowing it would have
to be quick and decisive before they lost all of their home
holdings
to clans that would decide their unguarded homes were juicier
targets
than the Regency. Tobin didn't fall; rather the duke decided that
Norris wasn't paying enough attention in that direction, so he
cut a
deal with the Aslan clans. His duchy then realigned under the
Aslan
banner. The whole "everyone knows" cover story is the nonsense
that
Norris put out to save face over the idea that a Domain Duke
deserted.
(And he paid for that choice with his life when Norris could
finally
refocus his forces.)

(And note that even my explanation doesn't hold together that
well,
as the other clans wouldn't wait like I made them. They would
have
struck immediately after the war fleets left for the Domain of
Deneb.
The war clans would have had nothing to come back to. I just
hand-
waved the delay to make it all work.)

Mike West
<>

Mike--

Please accept my apologies, I didn't mean to sound like I was scolding you.

I just suddenly felt really badly that I had made that stupid
Klingon-Aslan-

> Please accept my apologies, I didn't mean to sound like I was scolding
you.

There was no problem on your part (or Brett's, for that matter).

On my part, I have long had a problem of not using enough tact. My wife
often
tells me that I sound strident and condescending when I *talk*. It has to be
worse when I write. So, I want to be sure people (not just your and Brett)
know that I am merely sharing my opinions and observations. That's all.

> I think you made a good read of RSB. As I read it, the bells of
> recognition were definitely going off in my head.

Thank you. I am glad to hear that.

Mike West

Thanks, Mike. I was feeling sad, thinking, "man, I've been rude to Mike,
too."

I'm really kind of itching to have a look at a copy of RSB now, as your
summaries make me want to revisit it.

Frank Chadwick used to share a funny story. Like any designer, he would
spend a fair amount of time re-reading his old stuff, for all of the
various reasons, not least of which is, "I have a fun job, and I get to
make stuff like this." But whenever his wife, Tessa, would see him doing
that she would say, "Re-reading your favorite author again, I see."

Telling that story always made Frank laugh.

Dave

>> Please accept my apologies, I didn't mean to sound like I was scolding
> you.
>
> There was no problem on your part (or Brett's, for that matter).
>
> On my part, I have long had a problem of not using enough tact. My wife
> often
> tells me that I sound strident and condescending when I *talk*. It has to
> be
> worse when I write. So, I want to be sure people (not just your and Brett)
> know that I am merely sharing my opinions and observations. That's all.
>
>> I think you made a good read of RSB. As I read it, the bells of
>> recognition were definitely going off in my head.
>
> Thank you. I am glad to hear that.
>
> Mike West
>
>
>

> John Potter wrote:
> > As I see it most player's haven't really dug into the Aslan history enough to have informed opinions and simply use a generalized label like "Klingon Like" to infer that they are aggressive warrior like and tend to not get along with other species since they have a hard enough time just getting along with others of their own kind (differing clans).
>
> You are confusing two points. In my view, the Aslan had two huge
> problems. One was the History and one was the Culture. I have
> already gone over the Culture problem in another post, so, since
> you brought it up, I will hit on that. :-)
>
> The problem with the history is that it doesn't match their culture.
> We are told over and over that the Aslan do not have a racial
> identity. Instead, they have a clan identity. So, they are just as
> likely to make war with another clan as they are to make war with
> the empire of another race. That is just the way they are. But, within
> the history, they are always attacking as a race. They move as a
> race to battle with the Imperium, until they strike a treaty with the
> Aslan race. (Yeah, they try to cover it with being a treaty with the
> 'clan of clans', but really, it is a treaty between the humans and the
> Aslan, as all Aslan obey it.) They have skirmishes with the Solomani
> as a race. They invade the Domain of Deneb as a race. And finally,
> they take over most of the Domain's holdings in the Trojan Reach
> as a race. That doesn't fit and, really, doesn't make any sense.
>
> They tried to cover it by saying that it was really the ihatei that was
> doing the invasion. But that doesn't fly either. In fact, the Regency
> Sourcebook spends a lot of word count describing how pathetic
> ihatei fleets actually are, how expensive they are to create, and how
> rare they are. There just simply aren't enough ihatei fleets to do the
> damage they are accused of. And there pretty much isn't any way that
> they could take over the Tobin Duchy (much less Tobin itself).
>
> So, really, the whole story of the Aslan through the Rebellion and the
> Collapse makes no real sense the way it is portrayed. It just doesn't
> fit.
>
> What I did to deal with it is to say that the story that "everyone
> knows" was a cover. What happened is that some anti-Imperial clans
> made war with the Domain while they could, knowing it would have
> to be quick and decisive before they lost all of their home holdings
> to clans that would decide their unguarded homes were juicier targets
> than the Regency. Tobin didn't fall; rather the duke decided that
> Norris wasn't paying enough attention in that direction, so he cut a
> deal with the Aslan clans. His duchy then realigned under the Aslan
> banner. The whole "everyone knows" cover story is the nonsense that
> Norris put out to save face over the idea that a Domain Duke deserted.
> (And he paid for that choice with his life when Norris could finally
> refocus his forces.)
>
> (And note that even my explanation doesn't hold together that well,
> as the other clans wouldn't wait like I made them. They would have
> struck immediately after the war fleets left for the Domain of Deneb.
> The war clans would have had nothing to come back to. I just hand-
> waved the delay to make it all work.)
>
> Mike West
> mjwest@...
>

This makes so much sense and clarifies some of the things I have been struggling with the Aslan myself. I looked at the history and culture and think 'how can the Heirate be so big?' I have looked at Japanese history, even looked at the Klingons for inspiration but it doesn't make sense. I read your Aslan write-up last night and thought 'plausible'.

In reality I think the Heirate should be portrayed much more like the Extents, not one coherent whole like it is. Thanks so much for your reply Mike. Makes me want to dig deeper to try and explain thinks in MTU better.

Cheers.

Brett.

> Just to make sure we aren't confusion our points Mike my previous post was to try and explain the 'why' players tended to not play Aslan characters.
>
> In my view its simply psychological familiarity and empathy.of normal people as compared to knowledge or lack there of in regards to Aslan as a species and possibilities.
>

Sorry John, I didn't reply to you before Mike's reply and I don't want to seem that I was ignoring your comments.

I think you are correct for the most part, which would tend to indicate that the players I have come in contact with so far, the ones that play aliens, tend towards Vargr rather than Aslan characters which may have skewed my point of view. But it is also true that the vast majority will always play humans, which points to your explanation.

So, lots of good information for me all round.

By the way, I have a player in my CT game, David Billinghurst, who has Aslan characters down to a tee. His portrayal of the Aslan character is one of the reasons I love the game so much.

Guys,

Please don't feel bad on my account. I only 'discovered' TNE 18 months and all of these accounts of years gone by are fascinating to me. I'm like a child at a table of adults listening in to a discussing of past political events. Cool that I'm allowed to the table, but most of it going way over my head.

Besides, like most Aussies I am easy going with a thick skin.

Keep up the good work, I'm hanging in for the ride!

Brett.

> Mike--
>
> Please accept my apologies, I didn't mean to sound like I was scolding you.
>
> I just suddenly felt really badly that I had made that stupid Klingon-Aslan-Worf remark that made Brett feel bad, and I was trying to undo that. That I ended up adding you into my apology was unfair, and poor judgement on my part. I mean, here I am someone who has "issues" with some of the flak I get, and I throw some flak at Brett, for which I am sorry.
>
> I think your opinions are sound and valid, as I hope you can see from my other posts. I guess I just didn't want Brett to feel like he was getting jumped on.
>
> And I'm probably not anyone's mother, but maybe it's obvious why I'm sensitive, if unsightly. :-)
>
> I think you made a good read of RSB. As I read it, the bells of recognition were definitely going off in my head.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave
>
>
> On Sun, 10 Jun 2012 13:48:54 -0500, "Mike West" <mjwest@...>
> wrote:
> > dcndcn13@... [1] wrote:
> > > But what Mike MEANT to say was, "the Aslan are cool if you like them, they're just not my cup of tea." See? Peace and harmony. :-)
> >
> > OK, I can go with that.
> >

Dave,

If I'm not being too bold, would you mind visiting my Reavers' Deep web site and casting your eye over my fanzines? I'm a programmer/manager by trade so this is my first leap into design and publishing and having someone who did this for a living look over them and give me feedback would be a great learning experience for me.

I promise not to gush and only if you have the time. The site is at;

http://sites.google.com/site/reaversdeep/file-cabinet

Brett.

Thanks, Brett.

I just hated the idea that I said something snotty that would lessen your
enjoyment of the game.

I'm very glad it's all good.

Dave

> Guys,
>
> Please don't feel bad on my account. I only 'discovered' TNE 18 months
> and all of these accounts of years gone by are fascinating to me. I'm
> like a child at a table of adults listening in to a discussing of past
> political events. Cool that I'm allowed to the table, but most of it
> going way over my head.
>
> Besides, like most Aussies I am easy going with a thick skin.
>
> Keep up the good work, I'm hanging in for the ride!
>
> Brett.
>
>> Mike--
>>
>> Please accept my apologies, I didn't mean to sound like I was scolding
>> you.
>>
>> I just suddenly felt really badly that I had made that stupid
>> Klingon-Aslan-Worf remark that made Brett feel bad, and I was trying to
>> undo that. That I ended up adding you into my apology was unfair, and
>> poor judgement on my part. I mean, here I am someone who has "issues"
>> with some of the flak I get, and I throw some flak at Brett, for which I
>> am sorry.
>>
>> I think your opinions are sound and valid, as I hope you can see from my
>> other posts. I guess I just didn't want Brett to feel like he was
>> getting jumped on.
>>
>> And I'm probably not anyone's mother, but maybe it's obvious why I'm
>> sensitive, if unsightly. :-)
>>
>> I think you made a good read of RSB. As I read it, the bells of
>> recognition were definitely going off in my head.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 10 Jun 2012 13:48:54 -0500, "Mike West" <mjwest@...>
>> wrote:
>> > dcndcn13@... [1] wrote:
>> > > But what Mike MEANT to say was, "the Aslan are cool if you like
>> them, they're just not my cup of tea." See? Peace and harmony. :-)
>> >
>> > OK, I can go with that.
>> >
>
>
>

Yes, I would be happy to. I will try to do it some evening this week in
the hotel room, okay?

If you don't hear back from me on it by the end of the week, please feel
free to remind me.

Dave

> Dave,
>
> If I'm not being too bold, would you mind visiting my Reavers' Deep web
> site and casting your eye over my fanzines? I'm a programmer/manager by
> trade so this is my first leap into design and publishing and having
> someone who did this for a living look over them and give me feedback
> would be a great learning experience for me.
>
> I promise not to gush and only if you have the time. The site is at;
>
> http://sites.google.com/site/reaversdeep/file-cabinet
>
> Brett.
>
>
>

Thanks Dave,

In the 2 years I have been creating the website and content for my game I think I have gotten a brief insight into what you guys at games companies went through. I get regular emails asking for the next issue, but with work and life I think 'do I pay the bills or do create something I enjoy.

Food on the table tends to win.

Brett

PS. No rush. I've been asking my players and readers for feedback for years with minimal response. I guess as there are no complaints then I must be doing something right!

> Yes, I would be happy to. I will try to do it some evening this week in the hotel room, okay?
>
> If you don't hear back from me on it by the end of the week, please feel free to remind me.
>
> Dave
>
> > Dave,
> >
> > If I'm not being too bold, would you mind visiting my Reavers' Deep web site and casting your eye over my fanzines? I'm a programmer/manager by trade so this is my first leap into design and publishing and having someone who did this for a living look over them and give me feedback would be a great learning experience for me.
> >
> > I promise not to gush and only if you have the time. The site is at;
> >
> > http://sites.google.com/site/reaversdeep/file-cabinet
> >
> > Brett.
> >
> >
> >
>

I really like the blue and white color palette, and it looks like you have
a lot of categories of information.

I'll dig into it deeper this coming week.

Dave

> Thanks Dave,
>
> In the 2 years I have been creating the website and content for my game I
> think I have gotten a brief insight into what you guys at games companies
> went through. I get regular emails asking for the next issue, but with
> work and life I think 'do I pay the bills or do create something I enjoy.
>
> Food on the table tends to win.
>
> Brett
>
> PS. No rush. I've been asking my players and readers for feedback for
> years with minimal response. I guess as there are no complaints then I
> must be doing something right!
>
>
>> Yes, I would be happy to. I will try to do it some evening this week in
>> the hotel room, okay?
>>
>> If you don't hear back from me on it by the end of the week, please feel
>> free to remind me.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> > Dave,
>> >
>> > If I'm not being too bold, would you mind visiting my Reavers' Deep
>> web site and casting your eye over my fanzines? I'm a
>> programmer/manager by trade so this is my first leap into design and
>> publishing and having someone who did this for a living look over them
>> and give me feedback would be a great learning experience for me.
>> >
>> > I promise not to gush and only if you have the time. The site is at;
>> >
>> > http://sites.google.com/site/reaversdeep/file-cabinet
>> >
>> > Brett.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>

On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 4:41 PM, <> wrote:

> I really like the blue and white color palette, and it looks like you have
> a lot of categories of information.
>
> I'll dig into it deeper this coming week.

Here is the Yahoo Group for Galactic, Jim V reads and answers questions.

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/galactic/
--
Evyn

Thanks again Evyn.

> > I really like the blue and white color palette, and it looks like you have
> > a lot of categories of information.
> >
> > I'll dig into it deeper this coming week.
>
>
> Here is the Yahoo Group for Galactic, Jim V reads and answers questions.
>
> http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/galactic/
> --
> Evyn
>

I really like that you're using some of the stuff I wrote and lost. My campaign was in Nightrim and when I got there there were about 5 planet names and thats it. I love that my Ayansh'i minor race still get mentioned.

Derek Stanley
Sent from my iPhone...

On 2012-06-10, at 16:41, wrote:

> I really like the blue and white color palette, and it looks like you have
> a lot of categories of information.
>
> I'll dig into it deeper this coming week.
>
> Dave
>
> > Thanks Dave,
> >
> > In the 2 years I have been creating the website and content for my game I
> > think I have gotten a brief insight into what you guys at games companies
> > went through. I get regular emails asking for the next issue, but with
> > work and life I think 'do I pay the bills or do create something I enjoy.
> >
> > Food on the table tends to win.
> >
> > Brett
> >
> > PS. No rush. I've been asking my players and readers for feedback for
> > years with minimal response. I guess as there are no complaints then I
> > must be doing something right!
> >
> >
> >> Yes, I would be happy to. I will try to do it some evening this week in
> >> the hotel room, okay?
> >>
> >> If you don't hear back from me on it by the end of the week, please feel
> >> free to remind me.
> >>
> >> Dave
> >>
> >> > Dave,
> >> >
> >> > If I'm not being too bold, would you mind visiting my Reavers' Deep
> >> web site and casting your eye over my fanzines? I'm a
> >> programmer/manager by trade so this is my first leap into design and
> >> publishing and having someone who did this for a living look over them
> >> and give me feedback would be a great learning experience for me.
> >> >
> >> > I promise not to gush and only if you have the time. The site is at;
> >> >
> >> > http://sites.google.com/site/reaversdeep/file-cabinet
> >> >
> >> > Brett.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>

OK, I have DOSBox, Galactic 2.4c and the classic era data for Reavers' Deep. Any ideas where I can get the SAR file for TNE Reavers' Deep?

Brett.

> Here is the Yahoo Group for Galactic, Jim V reads and answers questions.
>
> http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/galactic/
> --
> Evyn
>