Thread: combat support ships and wilds support ships

to me combat support ships would fall into four classes: The first is the merchant ship that hauls the bullets and beans from the Coalition to forward supply depots. The second is what I believe the US Navy calls an AOR, this ship would bring the bullets and beans from the supply depots to a rendezvous with the ships that need the supplies. Third is a depot ship, during WW2 the US navy used these to shorten the turnaround for its submarines. These ships would have repair facilities supplies and R&R facilities. The fourth is either a troop transport like the US navy's Tarawa class with its Harriers, and Apache helicopters (orbit to ground fighters and attack speeders?). Or an anti-ship-ship. A ship with a huge mason gun or particle accelerator and a lot of missiles (both anti ship and anti ground).

The Wilds Support Ship: Here I can picture a Coalition version of USS Hope. Or maybe a ship or ship transportable +400 D Ton pod. The pod could carry a medical facility, school, or a small but instant class C starport. In this last case the ship would be a pod carrier. If an epidemic sprung up it could carry a medical facility pod to the location of the epidemic. To support a bootstrap mission a pod with a school for both children and adults who would learn advanced techniques in anything from agriculture to engineering.

This is a interesting idea. It might be the basis of another contest.

Set up the specs you think would be needed and Jain's Astro Architects stand ready with sharp pencils to design to the best of their ability.
Roger

looking at your idea for a pod carrier and the class C port, pretty good idea -
 
another idea that I'm stealing from a Renegade Legion novel is what they called a MOBASTAT it's a pod with the crew and facilities to handle a very large number of fighters no JD, minimal MD, fission power system cause that doesn't require refueling often etc ... in the novel it carried a full wing of fighters (360 of them) and about 1,200 personel (crews and maintenance, etc) ... may have to scale down to traveller specs but someone with the books could look at it.
regards, T

--- On Sat, 11/27/10, roger <> wrote:

From: roger <>
Subject: [Traveller_TNE] combat support ships and wilds support ships
To:
Date: Saturday, November 27, 2010, 3:20 PM

 

to me combat support ships would fall into four classes: The first is the merchant ship that hauls the bullets and beans from the Coalition to forward supply depots. The second is what I believe the US Navy calls an AOR, this ship would bring the bullets and beans from the supply depots to a rendezvous with the ships that need the supplies. Third is a depot ship, during WW2 the US navy used these to shorten the turnaround for its submarines. These ships would have repair facilities supplies and R&R facilities. The fourth is either a troop transport like the US navy's Tarawa class with its Harriers, and Apache helicopters (orbit to ground fighters and attack speeders?). Or an anti-ship-ship. A ship with a huge mason gun or particle accelerator and a lot of missiles (both anti ship and anti ground).

The Wilds Support Ship: Here I can picture a Coalition version of USS Hope. Or maybe a ship or ship transportable +400 D Ton pod. The pod could carry a medical facility, school, or a small but instant class C starport. In this last case the ship would be a pod carrier. If an epidemic sprung up it could carry a medical facility pod to the location of the epidemic. To support a bootstrap mission a pod with a school for both children and adults who would learn advanced techniques in anything from agriculture to engineering.

This is a interesting idea. It might be the basis of another contest.

Set up the specs you think would be needed and Jain's Astro Architects stand ready with sharp pencils to design to the best of their ability.
Roger

one old idea from WW2 was the LST. Tank Landing Ship
an actual full sized cargo ship designed specifically to land vehicles and
troops on beaches. but was also a fully functional freighter as well and
with internal 'drop tanks' was also a functional tanker.
with the right loadout. 1 of these vessels probably COULD assemble a forward
base for company sized military action, a semi permanent spaceport.
2 could get a bare bones type c starport running. (assuming 20 seabees in
low berth or somesuch.)
it was only lightly armed for anti aircraft defense.
in fact, I found a link to share,'
very strange 8-) a 'broken wreck' new carissa had to have its bow section
towed out to sea. scuttling charges didn't sink it. it took a combination of
a navy torpedo and an unspecified number of rounds from a destroyers 5 inch
guns. two hours to sink a wreck 8=) WOW!

of course, historically speaking LST class was phenomenally tough. tough
enough to carry a 285 ton vehicle even on the top deck in the roughest seas
of the pacific or atlantic.

http://www.cargolaw.com/New_Carissa_Ship_Disaster.html

a fictional novel that made me aware of these wee beasties was called "the
90 and 9"

I thinks I have to break out lahtinens ship builder now 8-)

anyone mind if I keep the original hull design in mind? as in it is a sea
going ship with AG and heplars. hmmmmm, could that be considered stealth by
misdirection? hide in plain sight as a lower tech version of what you are?

not an original idea of course, star blazers was way ahead of me.

On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 7:21 PM, Tim O'Reilly <> wrote:

>
>
> looking at your idea for a pod carrier and the class C port, pretty good
> idea -
>
> another idea that I'm stealing from a Renegade Legion novel is what they
> called a MOBASTAT it's a pod with the crew and facilities to handle a very
> large number of fighters no JD, minimal MD, fission power system cause that
> doesn't require refueling often etc ... in the novel it carried a full wing
> of fighters (360 of them) and about 1,200 personel (crews and maintenance,
> etc) ... may have to scale down to traveller specs but someone with the
> books could look at it.
> regards, T
>
> --- On *Sat, 11/27/10, roger <>* wrote:
>
>
> From: roger <>
> Subject: [Traveller_TNE] combat support ships and wilds support ships
> To:
> Date: Saturday, November 27, 2010, 3:20 PM
>
>
>
> to me combat support ships would fall into four classes: The first is the
> merchant ship that hauls the bullets and beans from the Coalition to forward
> supply depots. The second is what I believe the US Navy calls an AOR, this
> ship would bring the bullets and beans from the supply depots to a
> rendezvous with the ships that need the supplies. Third is a depot ship,
> during WW2 the US navy used these to shorten the turnaround for its
> submarines. These ships would have repair facilities supplies and R&R
> facilities. The fourth is either a troop transport like the US navy's Tarawa
> class with its Harriers, and Apache helicopters (orbit to ground fighters
> and attack speeders?). Or an anti-ship-ship. A ship with a huge mason gun or
> particle accelerator and a lot of missiles (both anti ship and anti ground).
>
>
> The Wilds Support Ship: Here I can picture a Coalition version of USS Hope.
> Or maybe a ship or ship transportable +400 D Ton pod. The pod could carry a
> medical facility, school, or a small but instant class C starport. In this
> last case the ship would be a pod carrier. If an epidemic sprung up it could
> carry a medical facility pod to the location of the epidemic. To support a
> bootstrap mission a pod with a school for both children and adults who would
> learn advanced techniques in anything from agriculture to engineering.
>
> This is a interesting idea. It might be the basis of another contest.
>
> Set up the specs you think would be needed and Jain's Astro Architects
> stand ready with sharp pencils to design to the best of their ability.
> Roger
>
>
>
>

--
The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to
think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.
Nikola Tesla

verrrry interesting, as for keeping it a sea going vessel with attachments don't see why not
NBC warfare designs allow for sealing the ship, they'd have to be beefed up as the ship isn't a submarine but there were any number of novels, anime and the like that have a naval ship being converted to a space ship.  Yamato (BB) Macros series (CVNs) etc so this has precedent in the fictional genre
regards, T

--- On Sun, 11/28/10, allen carpenter <> wrote:

From: allen carpenter <>
Subject: Re: [Traveller_TNE] combat support ships and wilds support ships
To:
Date: Sunday, November 28, 2010, 12:19 AM

 

one old idea from WW2 was the LST. Tank Landing Ship
an actual full sized cargo ship designed specifically to land vehicles and troops on beaches. but was also a fully functional freighter as well and with internal 'drop tanks' was also a functional tanker.
with the right loadout. 1 of these vessels probably COULD assemble a forward base for company sized military action, a semi permanent spaceport.
2 could get a bare bones type c starport running. (assuming 20 seabees in low berth or somesuch.)
it was only lightly armed for anti aircraft defense.
in fact, I found a link to share,'
very strange 8-) a 'broken wreck' new carissa had to have its bow section towed out to sea. scuttling charges didn't sink it. it took a combination of a navy torpedo and an unspecified number of rounds from a destroyers 5 inch guns. two hours to sink a wreck 8=) WOW!

of course, historically speaking LST class was phenomenally tough. tough enough to carry a 285 ton vehicle even on the top deck in the roughest seas of the pacific or atlantic.

http://www.cargolaw.com/New_Carissa_Ship_Disaster.html

a fictional novel that made me aware of these wee beasties was called "the 90 and 9"

I thinks I have to break out lahtinens ship builder now 8-)

anyone mind if I keep the original hull design in mind? as in it is a sea going ship with AG and heplars.  hmmmmm, could that be considered stealth by misdirection? hide in plain sight as a lower tech version of what you are?

not an original idea of course, star blazers was way ahead of me.

On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 7:21 PM, Tim O'Reilly <> wrote:

 

looking at your idea for a pod carrier and the class C port, pretty good idea -
 
another idea that I'm stealing from a Renegade Legion novel is what they called a MOBASTAT it's a pod with the crew and facilities to handle a very large number of fighters no JD, minimal MD, fission power system cause that doesn't require refueling often etc ... in the novel it carried a full wing of fighters (360 of them) and about 1,200 personel (crews and maintenance, etc) ... may have to scale down to traveller specs but someone with the books could look at it.
regards, T

--- On Sat, 11/27/10, roger <> wrote:

From: roger <>
Subject: [Traveller_TNE] combat support ships and wilds support ships
To:
Date: Saturday, November 27, 2010, 3:20 PM

 

to me combat support ships would fall into four classes: The first is the merchant ship that hauls the bullets and beans from the Coalition to forward supply depots. The second is what I believe the US Navy calls an AOR, this ship would bring the bullets and beans from the supply depots to a rendezvous with the ships that need the supplies. Third is a depot ship, during WW2 the US navy used these to shorten the turnaround for its submarines. These ships would have repair facilities supplies and R&R facilities. The fourth is either a troop transport like the US navy's Tarawa class with its Harriers, and Apache helicopters (orbit to ground fighters and attack speeders?). Or an anti-ship-ship. A ship with a huge mason gun or particle accelerator and a lot of missiles (both anti ship and anti ground).

The Wilds Support Ship: Here I can picture a Coalition version of USS Hope. Or maybe a ship or ship transportable +400 D Ton pod. The pod could carry a medical facility, school, or a small but instant class C starport. In this last case the ship would be a pod carrier. If an epidemic sprung up it could carry a medical facility pod to the location of the epidemic. To support a bootstrap mission a pod with a school for both children and adults who would learn advanced techniques in anything from agriculture to engineering.

This is a interesting idea. It might be the basis of another contest.

Set up the specs you think would be needed and Jain's Astro Architects stand ready with sharp pencils to design to the best of their ability.
Roger

--
The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.
Nikola Tesla

still more interresting ... the vessel was nearly 700 ft long, carried 400,000 gal of bunker fuel, got grounded in a storm - bad charts led to that at least in part - the legal side has been going on for years.  the stern was stuck fast and when they attempted to pull the wreck off an haul out to sea she broke in half.  Of the bow portion it took 70 rounds of 5 inch and an attack (?) sub (USS Bremerton's) torpedoe to sink it.  A tough ship, not too surprised about it taking the 5inch that's nothing more than a modern day tank's cannon really - tough yes, but to sink a vessel that (at this time is approx 300 ft long?  heh, take more than that, 8 inch at least n maybe larger to do the job.  So lacking guns or torpedoes of any size the DD needs a sub to come and finish the job properly.
 
The stern half remains stuck in the sand reports say its worked itself in about 40 feet or so ... to try and remove it they're bringing in a special set of barges with some bodaciously large hydraulic jacks on board - they hope to rock the wreck loose and cut it up as they go.  Failing that they'll cut her down to the sand line.
 
so there's another ship/pod type for you the hydraulic jacks, and another might be oversized cranes - but in space that may morph into the same thing - pressor-puller perhaps?
regards, Tim

--- On Sun, 11/28/10, allen carpenter <> wrote:

From: allen carpenter <>
Subject: Re: [Traveller_TNE] combat support ships and wilds support ships
To:
Date: Sunday, November 28, 2010, 12:19 AM

 

one old idea from WW2 was the LST. Tank Landing Ship
an actual full sized cargo ship designed specifically to land vehicles and troops on beaches. but was also a fully functional freighter as well and with internal 'drop tanks' was also a functional tanker.
with the right loadout. 1 of these vessels probably COULD assemble a forward base for company sized military action, a semi permanent spaceport.
2 could get a bare bones type c starport running. (assuming 20 seabees in low berth or somesuch.)
it was only lightly armed for anti aircraft defense.
in fact, I found a link to share,'
very strange 8-) a 'broken wreck' new carissa had to have its bow section towed out to sea. scuttling charges didn't sink it. it took a combination of a navy torpedo and an unspecified number of rounds from a destroyers 5 inch guns. two hours to sink a wreck 8=) WOW!

of course, historically speaking LST class was phenomenally tough. tough enough to carry a 285 ton vehicle even on the top deck in the roughest seas of the pacific or atlantic.

http://www.cargolaw.com/New_Carissa_Ship_Disaster.html

a fictional novel that made me aware of these wee beasties was called "the 90 and 9"

I thinks I have to break out lahtinens ship builder now 8-)

anyone mind if I keep the original hull design in mind? as in it is a sea going ship with AG and heplars.  hmmmmm, could that be considered stealth by misdirection? hide in plain sight as a lower tech version of what you are?

not an original idea of course, star blazers was way ahead of me.

On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 7:21 PM, Tim O'Reilly <> wrote:

 

looking at your idea for a pod carrier and the class C port, pretty good idea -
 
another idea that I'm stealing from a Renegade Legion novel is what they called a MOBASTAT it's a pod with the crew and facilities to handle a very large number of fighters no JD, minimal MD, fission power system cause that doesn't require refueling often etc ... in the novel it carried a full wing of fighters (360 of them) and about 1,200 personel (crews and maintenance, etc) ... may have to scale down to traveller specs but someone with the books could look at it.
regards, T

--- On Sat, 11/27/10, roger <> wrote:

From: roger <>
Subject: [Traveller_TNE] combat support ships and wilds support ships
To:
Date: Saturday, November 27, 2010, 3:20 PM

 

to me combat support ships would fall into four classes: The first is the merchant ship that hauls the bullets and beans from the Coalition to forward supply depots. The second is what I believe the US Navy calls an AOR, this ship would bring the bullets and beans from the supply depots to a rendezvous with the ships that need the supplies. Third is a depot ship, during WW2 the US navy used these to shorten the turnaround for its submarines. These ships would have repair facilities supplies and R&R facilities. The fourth is either a troop transport like the US navy's Tarawa class with its Harriers, and Apache helicopters (orbit to ground fighters and attack speeders?). Or an anti-ship-ship. A ship with a huge mason gun or particle accelerator and a lot of missiles (both anti ship and anti ground).

The Wilds Support Ship: Here I can picture a Coalition version of USS Hope. Or maybe a ship or ship transportable +400 D Ton pod. The pod could carry a medical facility, school, or a small but instant class C starport. In this last case the ship would be a pod carrier. If an epidemic sprung up it could carry a medical facility pod to the location of the epidemic. To support a bootstrap mission a pod with a school for both children and adults who would learn advanced techniques in anything from agriculture to engineering.

This is a interesting idea. It might be the basis of another contest.

Set up the specs you think would be needed and Jain's Astro Architects stand ready with sharp pencils to design to the best of their ability.
Roger

--
The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.
Nikola Tesla

For Combat Support I was thinking a very generic "helps the RC Navy get more bangs for their bucks" - so a ship which by whatever means the naval architect decides, makes operations more efficient, or enables cheaper operations to be performed. Not specifically focussed on ground combat (like USS Tarawa, HMS Ocean) per se, just a nice ship a Task Force Commander would like to have around 'cos everything goes a bit smoother with it there.

There are a range of modern ships and designs which encompass the ideas of the RC Combat Support Ship: The Danish Absalon Class, Canadian Joint Support Ship, and the Swedish Combat Support Ship. All are multi-role to some extent - some ship troops and are reasonably armed, others ship troops, fuel and supplies. So ships like that would be what the RC Naval command are thinking of - but who knows what crazy ideas might come across their datapads?

--- On Sat, 27/11/10, roger <> wrote:

From: roger <>
Subject: [Traveller_TNE] combat support ships and wilds support ships
To:
Date: Saturday, 27 November, 2010, 21:20

 

to me combat support ships would fall into four classes: The first is the merchant ship that hauls the bullets and beans from the Coalition to forward supply depots. The second is what I believe the US Navy calls an AOR, this ship would bring the bullets and beans from the supply depots to a rendezvous with the ships that need the supplies. Third is a depot ship, during WW2 the US navy used these to shorten the turnaround for its submarines. These ships would have repair facilities supplies and R&R facilities. The fourth is either a troop transport like the US navy's Tarawa class with its Harriers, and Apache helicopters (orbit to ground fighters and attack speeders?). Or an anti-ship-ship. A ship with a huge mason gun or particle accelerator and a lot of missiles (both anti ship and anti ground).

The Wilds Support Ship: Here I can picture a Coalition version of USS Hope. Or maybe a ship or ship transportable +400 D Ton pod. The pod could carry a medical facility, school, or a small but instant class C starport. In this last case the ship would be a pod carrier. If an epidemic sprung up it could carry a medical facility pod to the location of the epidemic. To support a bootstrap mission a pod with a school for both children and adults who would learn advanced techniques in anything from agriculture to engineering.

This is a interesting idea. It might be the basis of another contest.

Set up the specs you think would be needed and Jain's Astro Architects stand ready with sharp pencils to design to the best of their ability.

Roger

That certainly sounds like a ship the Spiri would like.

--- On Sat, 27/11/10, roger <> wrote:
>The Wilds Support Ship: Here I can picture a Coalition version of USS
>Hope. Or maybe a ship or ship transportable +400 D Ton pod. The pod
>could carry a medical facility, school, or a small but instant class C
>starport. In this last case the ship would be a pod carrier. If an
>epidemic sprung up it could carry a medical facility pod to the location
>of the epidemic. To support a bootstrap mission a pod with a school for
>both children and adults who would learn advanced techniques in anything
>from agriculture to engineering.

>This is a interesting idea. It might be the basis of another contest.

Cheers!

.

Addendum: though the Orifmammens, Tribeci, Aurorans and others might have wildly differing views of 'aiding the wilds' wich would feed through into their design processes.

--- On Sun, 28/11/10, Eamon Watters <> wrote:

From: Eamon Watters <>
Subject: Re: [Traveller_TNE] combat support ships and wilds support ships
To:
Date: Sunday, 28 November, 2010, 15:16

 

That certainly sounds like a ship the Spiri would like.

--- On Sat, 27/11/10, roger <> wrote:

>The Wilds Support Ship: Here I can picture a Coalition version of USS

>Hope. Or maybe a ship or ship transportable +400 D Ton pod. The pod

>could carry a medical facility, school, or a small but instant class C

>starport. In this last case the ship would be a pod carrier. If an

>epidemic sprung up it could carry a medical facility pod to the location

>of the epidemic. To support a bootstrap mission a pod with a school for

>both children and adults who would learn advanced techniques in anything

>from agriculture to engineering.

>This is a interesting idea. It might be the basis of another contest.

Cheers!

.

One thing to note is that the RCN is already planning to build the _Polyphemus_ class of brigade transports for carrying large numbers of RCMC troops around to do nasty things in the Wilds. Thus, while a combat support ship can mean a number of things, doing a _Tarawa_ style troop transport would probably be less useful since they've already got one.

That still leaves a lot of possibilities open, though... Personally, I'd be good with either contest, and it'd probably inspire me to haul out the old FF&S again.

Cheers,

-JTD