Thread: Mining Vessels

I was just wondering whether mining and exploration vessels owned by registered corporations/mining groups etc. Would be allowed to use nuclear warheads in mining operations? These would not be the TNE standard nuclear detonation types but conventional nuclear warheads either emplaced or fired using a missile into a small asteroid for example.

KE missiles or a ships laser I think could also be used to hit an asteroid then the ships sensors could read off the "rocks" composition. NASA did something similar when they impacted a probe on a small asteroid.

Incidentally if someone wants to metricate it GURPS Vehicle expansion 2 has a couple of possible ore processors in the Fuel Transfer and Processing section.

Antony

Wouldn't that disperse the rubble released from the asteroid?

I think a method that cut manageable pieces that could be drawn into a
mining scoop for processing would be the desired method. In the Traveller
milieu, I see gravitic tech as the best way to draw in the ore.

--
Regards,
Michael Jenkins
--
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On 23 March 2010 02:47, Antony <> wrote:

>
>
> I was just wondering whether mining and exploration vessels owned by
> registered corporations/mining groups etc. Would be allowed to use nuclear
> warheads in mining operations? These would not be the TNE standard nuclear
> detonation types but conventional nuclear warheads either emplaced or fired
> using a missile into a small asteroid for example.
>
> KE missiles or a ships laser I think could also be used to hit an asteroid
> then the ships sensors could read off the "rocks" composition. NASA did
> something similar when they impacted a probe on a small asteroid.
>
> Incidentally if someone wants to metricate it GURPS Vehicle expansion 2 has
> a couple of possible ore processors in the Fuel Transfer and Processing
> section.
>
> Antony
>
>
>

On 23 Mar 2010 at 12:09, Michael Jenkins wrote:

> Wouldn't that disperse the rubble released from the asteroid?
>
> I think a method that cut manageable pieces that could be drawn into
> a mining scoop for processing would be the desired method. In the
> Traveller milieu, I see gravitic tech as the best way to draw in the
> ore.

Tractor beams are something like TL16. So they aren't going to be
used.

The big solar mirror idea you see frequently has problems as well.
Heat the material too hot and it will vaporize. And in a vacuum, the
vaporized atoms move in straight lines until they hit something.

Vaporizing aluminum in a vacuum chamber will coat things with
aluminum, for example.

Get too close to and asteroid that got just a bit too hot and you may
have a layer of silica or other minerals deposited on the side of
your ship that faces the asterooid. This would not be good.

Folks are going to have to either dig in (not terribly practical) or
cut it up into manageable chunks to process inside an enclosed
facility.

This may require a "bubble" over part of the asteroid (to contain
pieces including stuff down to gravel, sand and dust sizes) or even
around the entire asteroid.

>
> --
> Regards,
> Michael Jenkins
> --
> Facebook: The Destroyer Of Time ... join now!!!
> http://www.facebook.com/darvedd
> --
>
> On 23 March 2010 02:47, Antony <> wrote:
>
> I was just wondering whether mining and exploration vessels owned by
> registered corporations/mining groups etc. Would be allowed to use
> nuclear warheads in mining operations? These would not be the TNE
> standard nuclear detonation types but conventional nuclear warheads
> either emplaced or fired using a missile into a small asteroid for
> example.
>
> KE missiles or a ships laser I think could also be used to hit an
> asteroid then the ships sensors could read off the "rocks"
> composition. NASA did something similar when they impacted a probe on
> a small asteroid.
>
> Incidentally if someone wants to metricate it GURPS Vehicle expansion
> 2 has a couple of possible ore processors in the Fuel Transfer and
> Processing section.
>
> Antony
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at shadowgard dot com

On 23 March 2010 12:43, <> wrote:

> On 23 Mar 2010 at 12:09, Michael Jenkins wrote:
> > On 23 March 2010 02:47, Antony <<>>
> wrote:
> >
> > I was just wondering whether mining and exploration vessels owned by
> > registered corporations/mining groups etc. Would be allowed to use
> > nuclear warheads in mining operations? These would not be the TNE
> > standard nuclear detonation types but conventional nuclear warheads
> > either emplaced or fired using a missile into a small asteroid for
> > example.
> >
> > KE missiles or a ships laser I think could also be used to hit an
> > asteroid then the ships sensors could read off the "rocks"
> > composition. NASA did something similar when they impacted a probe on
> > a small asteroid.
> >
> > Incidentally if someone wants to metricate it GURPS Vehicle expansion
> > 2 has a couple of possible ore processors in the Fuel Transfer and
> > Processing section.
> >
> > Antony
>
> > Wouldn't that disperse the rubble released from the asteroid?
> >
> > I think a method that cut manageable pieces that could be drawn into
> > a mining scoop for processing would be the desired method. In the
> > Traveller milieu, I see gravitic tech as the best way to draw in the
> > ore.
>
> Tractor beams are something like TL16. So they aren't going to be
> used.
>

Tractor beams, yes, but on the other hand we do have ship's gravity.

If you could create ship's gravity in a chamber open at one end (similar to
a room missing either the roof or a wall, then any mining ejecta in the room
will fall "down" and can be collected, no tractor beam necessary.

This would be the mining scoop, which you'd position practically right on
the mining face of the asteroid.

Or if your ship was bigger than the asteroid, just grapple the rock into
your hold, and process it there.

Or have grapples on your ship to hold a larger asteroid still relative to
the ship while you carved chunks off it and grapple-fed them into your ore
processor.

--
Regards,
Michael Jenkins
--
Facebook: The Destroyer Of Time ... join now!!!
http://www.facebook.com/darvedd
--

I don't think the mining company would be looking at high yield devices for
breaking up asteroids but low, perhaps part kiloton yields. Of course they
could send someone down to place lots of conventional charges like current
open cut mining practices.

Lasers could be used, use a much smaller array than a standard missile as
range does not have to be much. But until tractors come in you then still
have to gather and process all the chunks.

Perhaps the best would be a combination of explosives and then the vessel
attaches to the rock with one of those big wheel shovel things (whatever
they are called) and moves the shattered rock direct into the processors.

Antony

On 23 Mar 2010 at 14:49, Antony Farrell wrote:

> I don't think the mining company would be looking at high yield devices for
> breaking up asteroids but low, perhaps part kiloton yields. Of course they
> could send someone down to place lots of conventional charges like current
> open cut mining practices.
>
> Lasers could be used, use a much smaller array than a standard missile as
> range does not have to be much. But until tractors come in you then still
> have to gather and process all the chunks.
>
> Perhaps the best would be a combination of explosives and then the vessel
> attaches to the rock with one of those big wheel shovel things (whatever
> they are called) and moves the shattered rock direct into the processors.

Only if you have gravity. Asteroids are essentially zero G.

Also, someone's idea about the gravfield extending out of an open
hatch has problems.

For one, it'd place the asteroid *above you and make it fall on you.
For another if the field extends outside the ship you have all soorts
of problems with it affecyting external objext.

Standard assumptiopn is that the field requires a "top" and "bottom"
plate.

Of course, that *does* make a sort of conveyer belt workable, you
just run it in a rectangular "duct" with plates on the top and bottom
--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at shadowgard dot com

In FF&S the tractors starts at TL 12. A change I actually support as repulsors are too damned close to a gravitic drive and magical thrusters.

--
Roger Malmstein
www.travellerfreeport.com

From:
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 5:43 AM
To:
Subject: Re: [Traveller_TNE] Mining Vessels

On 23 Mar 2010 at 12:09, Michael Jenkins wrote:

Tractor beams are something like TL16. So they aren't going to be
used.

I'd agree that mining companies wouldn't be using hi-yield devices, something that most governments would control strictly.
part kt yields are also counter-productive as nukes would more than vaporize the material that they'd be wanting to mine and the fragments would be
moving at a high velocity afterwards.
chemical explosives perhaps, problems there as well but definitely more do-able than nukes for all sorts of reasons in this instance
grappling larger asteroids and then using lasers or machinery to cut the pieces up would seem to be more effective
particularly if the there was some way of ensuring that there was a way to bring most of the desired material into the ship

T.

________________________________
From: Antony Farrell
Sent: Tue, March 23, 2010 1:49:36 AM
Subject: RE: [Traveller_TNE] Mining Vessels

I don't think the mining company would be looking at high yield devices for
breaking up asteroids but low, perhaps part kiloton yields. Of course they
could send someone down to place lots of conventional charges like current
open cut mining practices.

Lasers could be used, use a much smaller array than a standard missile as
range does not have to be much. But until tractors come in you then still
have to gather and process all the chunks.

Perhaps the best would be a combination of explosives and then the vessel
attaches to the rock with one of those big wheel shovel things (whatever
they are called) and moves the shattered rock direct into the processors.

Antony

If you were going after asteroids containing ferrous metals, you wouldn't need tractors, magnetic grapples would do.
 
Jim

--- On Tue, 3/23/10, Roger Malmstein <> wrote:

From: Roger Malmstein <>
Subject: Re: [Traveller_TNE] Mining Vessels
To:
Date: Tuesday, March 23, 2010, 9:02 AM

In FF&S the tractors starts at TL 12. A change I actually support as repulsors are too damned close to a gravitic drive and magical thrusters.
 
--
Roger Malmstein
www.travellerfreeport.com

From:
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 5:43 AM
To:
Subject: Re: [Traveller_TNE] Mining Vessels

 

On 23 Mar 2010 at 12:09, Michael Jenkins wrote:

Tractor beams are something like TL16. So they aren't going to be
used.

Agreed, but claw grapples and cutting lasers will be more versatile.

--
Regards,
Michael Jenkins
--
Facebook: The Destroyer Of Time ... join now!!!
http://www.facebook.com/darvedd
--

On 23 March 2010 21:14, Jim <> wrote:

>
>
> If you were going after asteroids containing ferrous metals, you wouldn't
> need tractors, magnetic grapples would do.
>
> Jim
>
> --- On *Tue, 3/23/10, Roger Malmstein <>*wrote:
>
>
> From: Roger Malmstein <>
>
> Subject: Re: [Traveller_TNE] Mining Vessels
> To:
> Date: Tuesday, March 23, 2010, 9:02 AM
>
>
>
>
> In FF&S the tractors starts at TL 12. A change I actually support as
> repulsors are too damned close to a gravitic drive and magical thrusters.
>
> --
> Roger Malmstein
> www.travellerfreeport.com
>
> *From:* <http://us.mc657.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 23, 2010 5:43 AM
> *To:* <http://us.mc657.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=>
> *Subject:* Re: [Traveller_TNE] Mining Vessels
>
>
> On 23 Mar 2010 at 12:09, Michael Jenkins wrote:
>
>
> Tractor beams are something like TL16. So they aren't going to be
> used.
>
>
>
>
>
>

The only problem for this is that you may nt only want to go for ferrous ores, but also for non-ferrous ores and ice (for refueling).
And of course magnets got short range. Very short ranges.

Another topic for the mining vessel is the reason for a mining vessel to be jump capable. Wouldn't it be more economic to have a mining vessel without jump drive to give more space for ore. Any given starsystem would have enough mineable matter locally. And I can't imagine how it would be possible to run a ship with raw ore from one system to the next.

--
Roger Malmstein
www.travellerfreeport.com

From: Jim
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 2:14 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [Traveller_TNE] Mining Vessels

If you were going after asteroids containing ferrous metals, you wouldn't need tractors, magnetic grapples would do.

Jim

.

re the second topic below:
I'd think a jump capable ship's use as a mining vessel puts it in the prospector's class more than anything else ... if he thought he found a strong enough strike then it'd be time to call in the big ships but such a vessel wouldn't be looking for nickle-iron, although if one came along that was pure enough and large enough it might be worth while...
scattered thoughts
T

________________________________
From: Roger Malmstein
Sent: Tue, March 23, 2010 2:52:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Traveller_TNE] Mining Vessels

The only problem for this is that you may nt only want
to go for ferrous ores, but also for non-ferrous ores and ice (for
refueling).
And of course magnets got short range. Very short
ranges.


Another topic for the mining vessel is the reason for a
mining vessel to be jump capable. Wouldn't it be more economic to have a mining
vessel without jump drive to give more space for ore. Any given starsystem would
have enough mineable matter locally. And I can't imagine how it would be
possible to run a ship with raw ore from one system to the next.

--
Roger Malmstein
www.travellerfreepo rt.com

From: Jim
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 2:14 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [Traveller_TNE] Mining Vessels

If you were going after asteroids containing ferrous metals, you wouldn't need tractors, magnetic grapples would do.

Jim