Thread: Re: [Traveller_TNE] Re: 1248

7 posts.

In a message dated 11/25/2007 9:26:11 AM Pacific Standard Time, writes:
> The key idea, though, is that adventures are specifically designed for
> involving the players, and that, after all, is what Traveller - or any
> RPG - is ultimately about.

The problem with adventures is that they are so specialized.

To be worth bothering with, an adventure must focus on a single
area (whether that is a single world, or up to a cluster or so)
in relatively decent detail. Then it provide an activity interesting
to the players (or they won't do it).

The problem is that by focusing on that single area, you limit
yourself to the players interested in that area. Then, of that
small subset of players, only the ones interested in the
provided activity will want it. And then, only one player in
a group will actually buy it.
The key is to make adventures that can be set in locales where the overall region doesn't matter.  One of the good things about Traveller history is that I could have a Solomani or Vilani (or make up your Minor Race) <insert subsector/sector here>.  TNE makes that even easier ot have a reasonably familiar Traveller world anywhere you want and any GM worth his dice can place it with a reasonable amount of easy 1 paragraph backstory (Virus hit, society went THIS way, then X, Y, Z happened and that's why A,B,C are the way they are).
 
Assuming it's not entirely generic to begin with, much less adaptable.  For the former if it's a factory/company thing it could happen ANYWHERE with some name changes if done right.  For the latter... I quite easily converted the original Ravenloft Module to my Star Wars WEG D6 campaign... I have half a fancy to make it a TNE adventure on a world just outside the RC... probably in Diaspora. :D
 
Traveller made it easy for all of us to make our own random subsectors.  I think specific adventures are the most useful so I can use / adapt them on the fly as "filler" adventures.  For my campaigns, I almost always set up two or their tier story/character arcs to go through but I like to space them out with "filler" and semi-random missions sometimes.  Sometimes these amount to nothing more than "on the fly" random encounters and made up backstories, etc.  TNE motivations go a good way (though I have a simple script I did in pearl to randomize it without needing a deck of cards).  The "BIG" stuff is all carefully planned but I could certainly use a book of adventures, random world here, scientific mission there that doesn't need to be tied to any one place (or if it is, I can just change some names).
 
Along those lines, I had always wanted to see The Traveller
Adventure done up as a comic or webcomic. I always thought
THAT would be a very cool thing.

Or as a riff on Jeff's idea, but address my concern above,
make the novel an anthology of multiple short stories. That
way it could cover more than one activity and site and have
a better chance to hook someone's interest in at least one
of the stories.
I could go for that, too.  Ultimately, for Traveller to survive it needs to get a new lease on life.  Someone needs to make an MMORPG about it or something...




Check out AOL Money Finance's list of the hottest products and top money wasters of 2007.

--- In , TravelrTNE@... wrote:
> The key is to make adventures that can be set in locales where the
> overall region doesn't matter. One of the good things about
> Traveller history is that I could have a Solomani or Vilani (or
> make up your Minor Race) <insert subsector/sector here>. TNE makes
> that even easier ot have a reasonably familiar Traveller world
> anywhere you want and any GM worth his dice can place it with
> a reasonable amount of easy 1 paragraph backstory (Virus hit,
> society went THIS way, then X, Y, Z happened and that's why A,B,C
> are the way they are).

Isn't there a danger there of adventures being so generic that they
basically lose any "Traveller" identity? You're basically saying "why
not produce generic scifi adventures that can be run in any setting?",
to which one might say "so why use Traveller in the first place?".

I'd argue that TNE/1248 is a lot [i]less[/i] generic (i.e. more
specific) than the CT era Traveller setting. You've got Virus,
Collapse, the general post-apocalyptic feel of things... all of which
is lacking in the more generic (and IMO bland) CT-era setting.

Jeff writes:
 
>(2) What Avenger should be publishing, IMO, is principally adventures,
>secondarily background (e.g., (sub)sector sourcebooks and worldbooks),
>rather than things like vehicles or weapons or starships or equipment.
>Publish enough of the latter (v,w,s,e) to support the background
>material and adventures, WHERE INTEGRALLY NEEDED FOR THE PLOT (e.g., if
>an adventure requires having an air/raft, the adventure module should
>contain the stats for an air/raft), but big thick compilations of
>eleventy-twelveteen different projectile firearms, umpty-thirteen
>different capital starships (or military support adjuncts), or so on are
>just - again, IMO - examples of useless mental masturbation when a
>relatively simple design sequence is available for generating them.
 
I'm going agree and disagree here.  I *think* I agree with what Jeff is saying, but the emphasis might be off...
 
As a "secondary" license under Mongoose, you should probably leave the volumes of toys to them unless you have such a large and campaign ideosyncratic collection that you *need* a compilation.  I would, for example, consider doing a compilation to "bring forward" the hardware you've already included in existing products published prior to the Mongoose arrangement.
 
Normally, however, I'd think that "adventures with crunch" are the ideal.  Something a bit deeper than an Amber Zone (in terms of details pressented, not necessarily plot depth), accompanied by all the unique hardware and environments needed.  The goal is to make each product useful long after the adventure itself has been played.
 
As an example, the recent eBooks that spend some pages detailing a ship class, then drop a subsector and a pile of hooks in after it.  Some of those hooks are not simply adventure nuggets, they are *campaign* nuggets. I come back to the book for the ship even though I've already inflicted the adventures on my players.  Toss in a D-Port customs building, patron/target ranch map, and some distinctive wildlife, and there is plenty to come back to.  TSR's old blanket statement that "adventures don't sell" was due in no small part to there being nothing to come back to after the monsters were dead.
 
On the other hand, including the stats for hardware covered in the main rulebook is not called for unless you have distinctive artwork or a significant variant from the rulebook standard.
 
On the gripping hand, I love datasheets, and if an adventure provides an excuse to produce equipment sheets like DGP used to do for MT, I'd include them.
 
To further mix up my message, I'll return to the "adventures don't sell" statement. Aside from having little-to-no replay value, straight adventures are also intended for DM/Referee use *only*. That inherently limits the sales to one per group unless you've got a bunch of completists around the table.  The rulebook, weapons collections, vehicle catalogs, and adventure-class starship books are NOT Referee-only, and as such sell better.
 
Adventures are important because they set the mode and mood of the setting.  Classic Traveller was well-known for its "every ship's crew are crooks-for-hire and smugglers-by-default" because so many of the early adventures were cast that way.  If Mongoose sets up in one era and publishes adventures for it, they set the mode for that era.  If that mode doesn't suit you, or you choose to publish in a different era, you need to publish adventures that set *your* mode and mood.  No one else will do it for you...
 
GC


On Nov 25, 2007, at 11:42 AM, Evil Dr Ganymede wrote:

I think what Traveller actually needs is "splat books". i.e. books
that are actually honest-to-god primarily of use to players (though
the GM can get useful stuff out of them too). Ironically, even though
GT doesn't have "classes", the GT career books were along the right
lines - Star Mercs (aimed at Merc characters), Ground Forces (aimed at
military characters), First In (aimed at Scout characters), Far Trader
(aimed at merchant characters) etc. Though those specific examples
seemed a bit too aimed at GMs... maybe the oft-overlooked GT Bounty
Hunters book might be a better example of one aimed at players. Alien
race books written with the player in mind are another example. Either
way, I mean "books that are specifically aimed at players, so that
players (who make up the majority at the gaming table) will go out and
buy them and find them useful".

Humm... Now that is an Idea!

Say something a digest size?
--
Evyn MacDude

"When a meeting, or part thereof, is held under the Chatham House Rule, participants are free to use the information received, but neither the identity nor the affiliation of the speaker(s), nor that of any other participant, may be revealed"




In a message dated 11/25/2007 11:58:47 PM Pacific Standard Time, writes:
Isn't there a danger there of adventures being so generic that they
basically lose any "Traveller" identity? You're basically saying "why
not produce generic scifi adventures that can be run in any setting?",
to which one might say "so why use Traveller in the first place?".
 
Not at all...  Sure, there would be the danger of that, but that's what makes a good adventure designer different from the rest of the pack. :)  If nothing else, it's integration into a more "complete" campaign would be the fruits of labor born of a great GM. ;) 
 
Of course, being "Traveller" it would need to have fundamental concepts like Jump Drives, the Traveller tech tree.  The Free Trader Network and the Guild, should could and would be anywhere in between the Regency and the Coalition (if not anyone's own pet pocket empire).  Through the background would be the entire Traveller setting waiting to be unlocked by the intrepid explorers. 
 

I'd argue that TNE/1248 is a lot [i]less[/i] generic (i.e. more
specific) than the CT era Traveller setting. You've got Virus,
Collapse, the general post-apocalyptic feel of things... all of which
is lacking in the more generic (and IMO bland) CT-era setting.

 
Indeed and agreed on all counts.




Check out AOL Money Finance's list of the hottest products and top money wasters of 2007.

Antony Farrell wrote:

> Personally I think (and my thoughts are no better than anyone elses)
> that Avenger should consider dropping the entire Traveller lines and
> bring out something new in the SF line themselves. (I would also stay
> away from the d20 system). I know this would be hard work but it would
> mean that Avenger becomes the prime agent of its own destiny (nice line
> that) rather than subject to licences. I believe this worked for FASA
> though not for all old Traveller Licensees.

Building a new Si-Fi RPG from scratch, with only Martin's past works as
a sales pull? Hard work doesn't do it justice. The marketing needed to
pull it off might cost more than a MongTrav license.

But then:

Rock: Avenger: Hard Place.

If Avenger's current works can be converted to MongTrav then Martin can
utalize the long tail approach with his existing works (and maybe new
sales from an additional fan base) while working on producing more 1248.

It all really depends on the cost of the MongTrav License, and the terms
and conditions therein. Being the first is sometimes a good thing, but
until the license and the cost have been established there is no way to
know.

Best Regards

Ewan
--

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old;
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.
Laurence Binyon

My spelling is entirerly due to dyslexia, typos, and poetic license

Jim Kundert wrote:
>
> Jeff writes:
>
> >(2) What Avenger should be publishing, IMO, is principally adventures,
> >secondarily background (e.g., (sub)sector sourcebooks and worldbooks),
> >rather than things like vehicles or weapons or starships or equipment.
> >Publish enough of the latter (v,w,s,e) to support the background
> >material and adventures, WHERE INTEGRALLY NEEDED FOR THE PLOT (e.g., if
> >an adventure requires having an air/raft, the adventure module should
> >contain the stats for an air/raft), but big thick compilations of
> >eleventy-twelveteen different projectile firearms, umpty-thirteen
> >different capital starships (or military support adjuncts), or so on are
> >just - again, IMO - examples of useless mental masturbation when a
> >relatively simple design sequence is available for generating them.

snip

> Normally, however, I'd think that "adventures with crunch" are the
> ideal. Something a bit deeper than an Amber Zone (in terms of details
> pressented, not necessarily plot depth), accompanied by all the unique
> hardware and environments needed. The goal is to make each product
> useful long after the adventure itself has been played.

Jeff and Jim hit the nail right smack bang on the head, for me at least.

Adventures are what the RPGs are all about, and for an adventure to be
useful it needs everything in it that you need to play it, or in the
main rule book, and it must be useful after you have run the adventure.
Jim's "adventures with crunch".

One of the things I really liked about the Basic Books 1-3 reprint, is
there is a story in the front by Martin. It's quite an engaging tale
about a patron encounter, it sets out some background and character
development, and leaves open possibilities for more adventures. If
Martin had used the example characters in Book 1 and based it on Speer
(the UWP example) you could have played that adventure and gone on to
play a number of others you made up yourself, and all with the stuff
needed already detailed in the books. This is the type of thing that
Jeff was on about.

Whether or not you can make money selling the Novella/Adventure I don't
know.

A Novella/Adventure to start you off, add a setting book with adventure
seeds and hooks (to keep you going) along with adventures with crunch in
that setting (to really get your teeth into) where players can make real
differences.

Best Regards

Ewan
--


They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old;
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.
Laurence Binyon

My spelling is entirerly due to dyslexia, typos, and poetic license