Thread: Plot Idea - Comments

10 posts.

I'm reading a very fun sci-fi series called the "Lost Fleet" series by Jack
Campbell. As a former sailor myself, one of the aspects I really enjoy
about the series is that the author is a former Naval officer and brings
that perspective to the stories (which combine naval realism, sci-fi,
Xenophon's *Retreat of the Ten Thousand* and Arthurian legend).

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One of the plot points involves an alien species which has gone unnoticed
by humanity because it uses something called a "quantum worm" to cause
human fleet sensors to ignore the alien ships, making them effectively
invisible. Much later in the series, villainous elements in the human
fleet's own government insert "routine updates" to the fleet software that
does much the same thing, causing fleet and planetary sensors to ignore a
"black fleet" that carries out nefarious purposes.

I like this latter point a lot and am thinking of ways to use it in my TNE
game, but I'm not sure how. Maybe villainous elements in the RC want to
trade with the Guild or Solee or the Vampires? or maybe it's the Guild or
Solee or Vampires that operate as the black fleet?

The more important question is how, with RC security procedures regarding
computers, do the "routine updates" get into the system? I'm thinking that
only RCES or RCSA has access to the systems to perform the updates, which
could point the PCs in the direction of the culprits.

Whaddya think? How to make this plot work in the world of Virus? And who's
the best villain to pin this on? I'm kinda thinking hardline fuedal
technocrats in the Oriflamme government, but I'm not sure what they'd be up
to.

Scott

It would be tricky, as passive sensors should be able to spot the thermal image of a ship, even if the radar was updated to ignore them.

The people that would be in the place to pull off such a scam would be in the department that handles the hardware updates on the various ships, so they can insert the code package into each ship.  This would have to be paired with the shipyard personnel in the affected area, as those upgrades would be part of the mandatory (and free) sensor updates.  You land at a starport in a system near where the illegal stuff will be going on, and they inform you of a mandatory sensor package upgrade to help identify the ships in the sector.  It is free, and they throw in a free refueling.  The free refueling encourages anyone who stops by to get the upgrade package, and you will need a 'diversion ring' so you can have a mix of ships with and without the black fleet upgrades, but your black fleet doesn't operate (in case a ship without the upgrades spots a black fleet ship).

The overall authority will need to be someone with sector authority, either completely in charge and making money from this side business, or close to it who can conceal the sort of operations this requires.  Very powerful person relative to the PCs, so if they try to go up against this evil overlord I expect the PCs to be expanding vapor or bloody smears.  Now taking down a few of the minions might be possible, if it allows the PCs to escape.

The other detail is needing to figure out the goal of the person running the black fleet.  Is it used for deep cover operations?  If so, this fleet could be technically legal, even as they do illegal stuff (KGB/CIA equivalent).  Is it used for smuggling, slavery, or other stuff, in which case the overlord is relying on a relatively few people to buy the illegal stuff to keep the network functioning.  Or is it used to ship dissidents to a hidden prison (low berths on a Jump 6 courier, or some sort of drug to slow down the prisoner).

Virus could do this, if a 'friendly virus' strain was working with the local ships.  They are inoculated against other Viral strains thanks to the current one in residence, but that strain has plans that are better if the organics don't know about them.  So it has its own hidden ships conducting its own operations in areas that organics don't often get near.  Perhaps a brown dwarf star that is little more than a giant ball of hydrogen, that Virus ships use as a fueling stop?  An automated repair yard that is fabricating Von Neumann machines to consume local planets to take care of the puny humans, so they can feel free to do research?  This research is then sent via Viral couriers, so the main Viral control/coordination gets the upgrades as well.  The Virus is keeping pet humans to steadily uptech itself, in an attempt to reach TL 16.  Its goal is to eventually upload itself into the structure of space-time.

One way to reveal a dark fleet type ship would be a new vessel getting into the area, not having the upgrades, seeing a black fleet ship, and deciding to raid it.  Another ship in-system sees the newcomer accelerating towards empty space, and opening fire.  Then explosions start occurring in the empty space.

Todd Kes

On Monday, November 3, 2014 2:55 PM, "Scott Nolan wrote:

<!--#yiv5208075722 #yiv5208075722 .yiv5208075722ygrp-photo-title{clear:both;font-size:smaller;height:15px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;width:75px;}#yiv5208075722 div.yiv5208075722ygrp-photo{background-position:center;background-repeat:no-repeat;background-color:white;border:1px solid black;height:62px;width:62px;}#yiv5208075722 div.yiv5208075722photo-title a, #yiv5208075722 div.yiv5208075722photo-title a:active, #yiv5208075722 div.yiv5208075722photo-title a:hover, #yiv5208075722 div.yiv5208075722photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv5208075722 div.yiv5208075722attach-table div.yiv5208075722attach-row {clear:both;}#yiv5208075722 div.yiv5208075722attach-table div.yiv5208075722attach-row div {float:left;}#yiv5208075722 p {clear:both;padding:15px 0 3px 0;overflow:hidden;}#yiv5208075722 div.yiv5208075722ygrp-file {width:30px;}#yiv5208075722 div.yiv5208075722attach-table div.yiv5208075722attach-row div div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv5208075722 div.yiv5208075722attach-table div.yiv5208075722attach-row div div span {font-weight:normal;}#yiv5208075722 div.yiv5208075722ygrp-file-title {font-weight:bold;}#yiv5208075722 --> <!--#yiv5208075722 #yiv5208075722ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv5208075722 #yiv5208075722ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv5208075722 #yiv5208075722ygrp-mkp #yiv5208075722hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv5208075722 #yiv5208075722ygrp-mkp #yiv5208075722ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv5208075722 #yiv5208075722ygrp-mkp .yiv5208075722ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv5208075722 #yiv5208075722ygrp-mkp .yiv5208075722ad p {margin:0;}#yiv5208075722 #yiv5208075722ygrp-mkp .yiv5208075722ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}-->I like this latter point a lot and am thinking of ways to use it in my TNE game, but I'm not sure how. Maybe villainous elements in the RC want to trade with the Guild or Solee or the Vampires? or maybe it's the Guild or Solee or Vampires that operate as the black fleet? The more important question is how, with RC security procedures regarding computers, do the "routine updates" get into the system?  I'm thinking that only RCES or RCSA has access to the systems to perform the updates, which could point the PCs in the direction of the culprits. Whaddya think? How to make this plot work in the world of Virus? And who's the best villain to pin this on?  I'm kinda thinking hardline fuedal technocrats in the Oriflamme government, but I'm not sure what they'd be up to.

Scott
the yard personnel don't have to know the purpose of the upgrade either, only that it is being done. Software upgrades are all that are really necessary whether the sensors are passive or active provided you're looking at distinctive signatures.

A radar pulse that hits a "black fleet" ship is going to produce a return of some kind barring some super-stealth features. That radar return, if it is strong enough to register on the sending or other receiving ship's systems will produce a "blip" on the screen. This type of radar is called a primary radar and current "RL" era military radars work on this principle.

Civilian radars on the other hand do not attempt to register a return pulse, but rather interrogate the aircraft's or ship's transponder to get a "return" from that. This method provides much more detailed information of that vessel - it's own ID, its altitude, course, speed, and such forth. This information can be spoofed by that vessel to provide false information to the radar systems that inquire it.

There were, prior to this discussion, 2 ways that I know of to "spoof" primary radars. The first is to use stealth materials in the construction of the vessel. The idea being to either reduce the radar return to negligible levels or to redirect that return away from the radar receiver of the sending unit. The second method is to actively jam or spoof the radar in question. Jamming I assume we're familiar with in broad principles ... it's an attempt to overwhelm the radar with the power of your own emitter, or to produce false images on the screen, or any number of other confusing effects. But, some years ago the French came up with another method - "active stealth" - in which the vessel (aircraft) being targeted would, send a reverse polarity, or mirror image signal back to the sender. The idea being that the two signals would overlap and cancel each other out. While fairly simple in theory, because the vessel is moving its a bit complicated in
practice so I think that they have a dedicated, if simple, computer system to handle that.

Passive thermal detection or possibly gravitics, and or other passive systems are more of a problem. All vessels (land, air, sea and space) produce some form of energy, often heat, sometimes combined with something else - wake or turbulence. Heat is very problematic in that it's going to stand out as it's rather hard to keep a convenient sun in the "eyes" of the opponent.

One method that may work is to radiate that heat away from the expected direction of the opponent attempting to deny him that "visual" look at your presence. This of course, requires that your opponent cooperate by not being on the side that you are radiating that energy to.

Another method along these lines would be to somehow store the heat energy for a limited time and then radiate it later when it's more convenient, or safer to do so.

Thoughts, comments?
Regards,
Tim

On Monday, November 3, 2014 7:33 PM, "Todd Kes [Traveller_TNE]" <> wrote:


It would be tricky, as passive sensors should be able to spot the thermal image of a ship, even if the radar was updated to ignore them.

The people that would be in the place to pull off such a scam would be in the department that handles the hardware updates on the various ships, so they can insert the code package into each ship. This would have to be paired with the shipyard personnel in the affected area, as those upgrades would be part of the mandatory (and free) sensor updates. You land at a starport in a system near where the illegal stuff will be going on, and they inform you of a mandatory sensor package upgrade to help identify the ships in the sector. It is free, and they throw in a free refueling. The free refueling encourages anyone who stops by to get the upgrade package, and you will need a 'diversion ring' so you can have a mix of ships with and without the black fleet upgrades, but your black fleet doesn't operate (in case a ship without the upgrades spots a black fleet ship).

The overall authority will need to be someone with sector authority, either completely in charge and making money from this side business, or close to it who can conceal the sort of operations this requires. Very powerful person relative to the PCs, so if they try to go up against this evil overlord I expect the PCs to be expanding vapor or bloody smears. Now taking down a few of the minions might be possible, if it allows the PCs to escape.

The other detail is needing to figure out the goal of the person running the black fleet. Is it used for deep cover operations? If so, this fleet could be technically legal, even as they do illegal stuff (KGB/CIA equivalent). Is it used for smuggling, slavery, or other stuff, in which case the overlord is relying on a relatively few people to buy the illegal stuff to keep the network functioning. Or is it used to ship dissidents to a hidden prison (low berths on a Jump 6 courier, or some sort of drug to slow down the prisoner).

Virus could do this, if a 'friendly virus' strain was working with the local ships. They are inoculated against other Viral strains thanks to the current one in residence, but that strain has plans that are better if the organics don't know about them. So it has its own hidden ships conducting its own operations in areas that organics don't often get near. Perhaps a brown dwarf star that is little more than a giant ball of hydrogen, that Virus ships use as a fueling stop? An automated repair yard that is fabricating Von Neumann machines to consume local planets to take care of the puny humans, so they can feel free to do research? This research is then sent via Viral couriers, so the main Viral control/coordination gets the upgrades as well. The Virus is keeping pet humans to steadily uptech itself, in an attempt to reach TL 16. Its goal is to eventually upload itself into the structure of space-time.

One way to reveal a dark fleet type ship would be a new vessel getting into the area, not having the upgrades, seeing a black fleet ship, and deciding to raid it. Another ship in-system sees the newcomer accelerating towards empty space, and opening fire. Then explosions start occurring in the empty space.

Todd Kes

On Monday, November 3, 2014 2:55 PM, "Scott Nolan wrote:


I like this latter point a lot and am thinking of ways to use it in my TNE game, but I'm not sure how. Maybe villainous elements in the RC want to trade with the Guild or Solee or the Vampires? or maybe it's the Guild or Solee or Vampires that operate as the black fleet?

The more important question is how, with RC security procedures regarding computers, do the "routine updates" get into the system? I'm thinking that only RCES or RCSA has access to the systems to perform the updates, which could point the PCs in the direction of the culprits.

Whaddya think? How to make this plot work in the world of Virus? And who's the best villain to pin this on? I'm kinda thinking hardline fuedal technocrats in the Oriflamme government, but I'm not sure what they'd be up to.

Scott

Stealth aircraft employ a variety of measures to reduce their signature including radar absorbing materials, redirection of engine heat, and design features that cause active radar signals to naturally be scattered.  You see all this employed in the F-117.
At more advanced tech levels the experiments you see being done now with cloaking devices would be employed.  These would culminate in the black globe device and later the white globe device.  The idea with cloaking is not to simply be a dead spot on a passive or active sensor, but to emit just enough energy so that you would appear match the background energy levels from the perspective of the enemy. Of course such cloaking couldn't be all aspect (though at the upper reaches of Ancients level tech perhaps it could be...), so a certain amount tactical skill would be required in employing it.
That perhaps is the best way to introduce a RCES black trading fleet into the mix.  Certain elements within the RC aren't happy with the pace of technological advancement, and feel the Hivers are holding the RC back on purpose.  They would employ a few vessels, tenders or carriers most likely that act as a mobile base, that have salvaged Imperial black globe generators to carry trading vessels to places where the RC doesn't routinely go and deal with people/AI that the RC don't do business with in order to obtain high tech salvage items. The player characters could encounter these elements a number of ways, either because they accidentally stumble across a ship, follow it for some reason, and witness as a massive battletender suddenly appears and then disappears, along with the ship.  Perhaps they cold even be recruited by the operators of the black fleet to be part of the their trade/salvage teams.  The motivations of those that control the black fleet could vary from genuinely sincere "super patriots" operating outside the RC's control to a "Section 31" type organization that only a few in the RC government even know about, to arch villains who want to create a high tech empire that includes the RC and puts the Hivers "in their place". 

The main thing is to have fun with it and try not to do too much violence to the established storyline--that way the cloak and dagger aspects of what's going on can be maintained.
"I know things, Duval, and if I told you what I knew, I'd have to kill you."
"Yeah, right, whatever..." said Duval, rolling his eyes.
Kilburn frowned. "No, Duval, I am being totally serious.  If you think the Hivers are puppet masters, you haven't seen anything yet."
Hi everyone, In the second book "To Dream of Chaos" from GDW the plot hook centered on sending an improved J-hawk very deep into the wilds to recover or destroy a black globe before the Solee could get their hands on it. This leads me to think that the Coalition does not have any globes of if they do only one or two. These would most likely be found items, off a derelict starship or being repaired at a base when the base was abandoned. Lancers might come across the hulk of one that the locals striped for parts to keep their fusion plant going, never realizing just what they had. The Guild being active over at least a sector would have an even better chance of finding one that the RCES. They could repair one for sure but I don't think they could build a globe. The Solee are close to the sector's depot, and here I'll bet they were building globes for black war raiders. These black war raiders I've always pictured as being smaller more expendable ships, CEs, DEs, or anything up to maybe 3000 tons. So the globes being built here would not fit on the larger Solee ships. The Solee could mount one on a J-Hawk. Soup up its sensors and you would have a dandy spy ship. My money would be on the vampires. They must have captured ships with globes, and building new globes would not be a problem for them especially behind the black curtain. Could a fleet of them work together, yes if they wanted to but would they want to?
Since black globes are so hard to get-build-find. Currently stealth aircraft absorb and reflect radar signals to make themselves harder to spot. In BARD the is something called smart paint, how about adding computer controlled crystals to the paint. The crystals would reflect EMS and radar emissions away from the searching ship making it harder to spot the reflecting ship (+1 to Active EMS search attempts). Something else is EM Masking, it makes your ship look smaller on active sensors. Put EM Masking and reverse the process on a two ton craft and on radar now gives a return echo of a much larger ship. The enemy could be drawn off to follow or shoot at the phony target. Also extra EM Masking radiators could be added to EM Masking package. Turn off the radiators facing the rival ship and turn on the ones facing away from it, making it harder (+1 to passive sensors) for passive sensors to pick up the target.
I like the concept. How paranoid people would get, if reports of starships fading into nothingness started coming in.
Roger

Kulligan was head of Dulinor's secret service. If he didn't know they existed then we have a problem.

Derek Stanley
Sent from my iPad

> On Nov 10, 2014, at 2:36 PM, [Traveller_TNE] <> wrote:
>
> True, the RC navy would absolutely love to have 2-4 operational black globes...if they knew they existed. Thus the alternative scenarios I postulated as to who was operating them.
>
>
Certainly if they knew they existed :)

It would be an interesting dance to keep them from being seized the first time you entered RC space.

Matt
I think the fact that they existed would be known… What they look like on the other hand…

I know what this is, this is a snow cone maker.

Is it a water cooler?

An espresso machine?

From: []
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 8:02 AM
To:
Subject: Re: [Traveller_TNE] Plot Idea - Comments

Certainly if they knew they existed :)

It would be an interesting dance to keep them from being seized the first time you entered RC space.

Matt

One note about the radiators being turned on/off/away, is that you would need the light-speed information from the opposite craft to arrive before you would know which way to turn your radiators.  So smaller sensors near the spy craft would use lasercomms to help track ships that get near (and obviously not communicating if something got between the sensor and the mothership).
Your best bet is to just have the non-cleared cargo vessels deliver the supplies (food/fuel/life support) to a military base (ground or orbital), then have a military craft jump to previously set coordinates to drop off the supplies into vacuum with a coded transponder.  Another vessel would jump in to those coordinates, squawks the codes to make the cargo transponder activate, and pick up the cargo.  If this was done in deep space, then anyone trying to search for the base would need to search a hex 1 parsec in width (so roughly a sphere with a volume of roughly 18.17 light years, or half a cubic parsec).  If the receiving base is also in an empty hex, that is another half parsec you need to search to find it.
The coordinates would be changed for each jump, to prevent anyone from tracking the cargo vessel.

So the base would be expensive, but theoretically possible.  And if the players get a contract to keep the basic military base supplied, potentially very profitable too, unless the base uses a standard shipping schedule that can afford the 1000 Cr/dton cargo rates, and remain profitable - Freelance Traveller - The Shipyard - Commercial Efficiency Analysis of Selected Starfreighters

Todd Kes
From: " [Traveller_TNE]" <>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 9:07 AM
Subject: Re: [Traveller_TNE] Plot Idea - Comments

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There's knowing that something exists some place as a real piece of hardware.

There's knowing what it would look like if you saw it.

Then there's knowing that someone has one hooked up in engineering and two more of them in the cargo hold...

That's where I was going. No question the old Imperial/Solomani records would mention black globe generators and indeed Kulligan could give you a basic briefing about them. You might even be able to find the technical specifications for the crude copies the Imperium was making or simply how to hook one up. But our "RC Illuminati" would guard the fact they had an operational one (or multiple operational ones) as a secret of the highest order.