Hey, Charles, et al.--
I do play Dave on television, and I'm shorter than I appear.
I was going to paste this back in to my reply to Bardbear, and since you
brought up the Avenger Books (I believe those are the 1248 books, right?),
this is a good time to do it.
Bardbear originally sent his question to me direct, unsure if I wanted to
talk about it on the full board, and I told him I was fine with the big
board, there was nothing he asked that I was unwilling to attempt to
answer. His original question also included this, which I wanted to reply
to:
> I didn't post this on the newsgroup because i wasn't sure
>
> a) if you would answer this sort of question
> b) and if you did, would you want it "on the record"
>
> I've gotten the impression you were not happy with the Traveller 1248
> products.
First, some of you already know the answer to this, and have really warmed
my heart with your "Whoa, Dave doesn't want to hear that," "Dave, plug
your ears," warnings about 1248 discussions, so you already know what I'm
about to say. But thanks again for your kind concern. Also, I notice how
polite Bardbear was above, which is invariably the case here on the TNE
list, though not invariably the case on other lists, which is why I remain
here.
Anyway, re: the 1248 products.
I can see how you might have gotten that impression, so let me clarify. I
have never read the 1248 stuff, and do not intend to. That does not mean I
am opposed to it. I am sure that it is extremely good, as it was written
by Martin Dougherty (am I spelling that right?). When we were still in our
Normal offices I got a TNE short story MS from him which was the best TNE
fiction I had ever seen. I felt that he really "got" the RC campaign
setting, with its mix of idealism and melancholy in a way no one else
(out-of-house) had. I don't know why we didn't find a way to publish it,
but I'm pretty sure it's because the Challenge editor (lovely lady, can't
think of her name--Michelle Sturgeon?) had declared a moratorium on
fiction appearing in Challenge (I think that was because she was getting
everybody's SF short stories and couldn't read them all), and we didn't
really have another mechanism to publish fiction. We already had the
author for the "To Dream of Chaos" novels under contract, and there was
really no other place to put it. In retrospect, I wish I had pressed
Michelle to make an exception for Martin's piece, because it was that
good, and also good fiction is so much easier to edit and proof for
Challenge than game variants and adventures (you have to check all of the
rules for all of the game systems, and it's very laborious), and it was a
lot of work getting an issue of Challenge out the door. That would have
probably allowed us to get one out quicker, but I didn't think of that.
However, Michelle might still have said no, as violating her rule would
have probably made her the target for every disgruntled, "Hey, you told
me..." letter you could imagine.
Anyway, when Martin first talked to me...back in the late '90s?--I can't
remember, I felt that there was no one better qualified to write the
follow-on material than him (given the fact that I was already
disqualified: 1) I had already demonstrated that I could not devote the
proper effort to a Traveller product and still handle my day job--See GT
Aliens with the Hivers in it, and 2) I was not out there fighting to be
involved in post-TNE Traveller and he was, and had already done the hard
work to get permission, so he had earned it). He had already at that point
(I think, this is the best I can remember) written the first 1248 overview
book, so he didn't really want my version of what I would have done, as he
had already worked out his take. I did at that point say that I would like
to see his MS and give him whatever feedback he would like. However, at
the end of the day I did not have time to read it, and decided that was
better anyway.
And the reason is that, say what you will about the way that I accepted my
"expulsion from Eden," (mostly realistically: I had to get another job,
got one with the Army, and was immediately overworked for years) I have
always harbored a deep affection for the work we at GDW did, and always
wished there could be a way to go back and finish it (God knows how). So I
kept most of that stuff, "pondering it in my heart" as they say, and still
do. And I have realized as the years go by (and as folks on this list have
seen) it can be hard to remember everything. And one of the cruelest
tricks of all is that if you start mixing your tattered memories with
other people's memories or ideas, you can start remembering other things
as if you had thought them, and I didn't want that to happen. So I have
not read any 1248 stuff, nor let anyone tell me about it, because that way
I know that whatever I remember about my intent is as unentangled as
possible with anything else.
So I have not read the 1248 stuff. That also means that the 1248 stuff is
not Dave's nor GDW's vision for life after TNE. But I am sure it is very
good, maybe better than what we might have come up with. But it is an
independent creation, and is "a way" that the plot seeds planted in TNE
could have flowered. (Don't you love the way I throw freebie poeticisms in
there?)
One last thing about "Dave's Version." There has been a statement out
there after GDW went down that Dave swore members of the GDW staff to
secrecy, to never reveal our/Dave's/GDW's true intent. That was a "white
lie," not of my creation, but to which I agreed, to help someone out of a
jam. As we know, there is no such thing as a "white lie," and that has
come back to bite me, and cause people who did not already dislike me to
dislike me, and prompt those who already did to feel confirmed in their
sentiments. Oh well, I'd probably do it again under the circumstances. And
let us please agree to not speculate on what I am referring to. No point
in undoing what good it did after this time.
I'll get back to the other questions later, which might allow some members
to say, "Dave said A, B, C" which will help me remember what I've already
said when I get back. Or, if you prefer, don't help me, and see if what I
say this time is consistent with what I've said before. That way you can
test a) how much further my brain has deteriorated, or b) if I was just
making this stuff up the whole time and can't keep my story straight. I
will observe that testing me sounds like a more entertaining option,
unless you don't like hearing me repeat myself. But I figure I repeat
myself a lot here, so you must be tolerant of it. Also, I figure I repeat
myself a lot here, redundantly and repetitively, but apparently you have
built up an immunity against it. Also, I repeat myself. A lot. Here.
> I know I am not Dave nor do I play him on Television but you can check
out
> the Avenger Books,IMHO some really really good stuff.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 12:02 PM, <> wrote:
>
>> ( I'm a relative new comer to the group, and may have missed some of
Dave's prior info on this topic, so feel free to point me to the proper
channels for finding old information. )
>> I would really like to know what the short range and long range (and
medium range, if you recall) timelines were for the New Era universe.
Would
>> the Imperium eventually reform? Would Virus eventually stabilize?
Inquiring Duke ('88) guys want to know. :)
>
I do play Dave on television, and I'm shorter than I appear.
I was going to paste this back in to my reply to Bardbear, and since you
brought up the Avenger Books (I believe those are the 1248 books, right?),
this is a good time to do it.
Bardbear originally sent his question to me direct, unsure if I wanted to
talk about it on the full board, and I told him I was fine with the big
board, there was nothing he asked that I was unwilling to attempt to
answer. His original question also included this, which I wanted to reply
to:
> I didn't post this on the newsgroup because i wasn't sure
>
> a) if you would answer this sort of question
> b) and if you did, would you want it "on the record"
>
> I've gotten the impression you were not happy with the Traveller 1248
> products.
First, some of you already know the answer to this, and have really warmed
my heart with your "Whoa, Dave doesn't want to hear that," "Dave, plug
your ears," warnings about 1248 discussions, so you already know what I'm
about to say. But thanks again for your kind concern. Also, I notice how
polite Bardbear was above, which is invariably the case here on the TNE
list, though not invariably the case on other lists, which is why I remain
here.
Anyway, re: the 1248 products.
I can see how you might have gotten that impression, so let me clarify. I
have never read the 1248 stuff, and do not intend to. That does not mean I
am opposed to it. I am sure that it is extremely good, as it was written
by Martin Dougherty (am I spelling that right?). When we were still in our
Normal offices I got a TNE short story MS from him which was the best TNE
fiction I had ever seen. I felt that he really "got" the RC campaign
setting, with its mix of idealism and melancholy in a way no one else
(out-of-house) had. I don't know why we didn't find a way to publish it,
but I'm pretty sure it's because the Challenge editor (lovely lady, can't
think of her name--Michelle Sturgeon?) had declared a moratorium on
fiction appearing in Challenge (I think that was because she was getting
everybody's SF short stories and couldn't read them all), and we didn't
really have another mechanism to publish fiction. We already had the
author for the "To Dream of Chaos" novels under contract, and there was
really no other place to put it. In retrospect, I wish I had pressed
Michelle to make an exception for Martin's piece, because it was that
good, and also good fiction is so much easier to edit and proof for
Challenge than game variants and adventures (you have to check all of the
rules for all of the game systems, and it's very laborious), and it was a
lot of work getting an issue of Challenge out the door. That would have
probably allowed us to get one out quicker, but I didn't think of that.
However, Michelle might still have said no, as violating her rule would
have probably made her the target for every disgruntled, "Hey, you told
me..." letter you could imagine.
Anyway, when Martin first talked to me...back in the late '90s?--I can't
remember, I felt that there was no one better qualified to write the
follow-on material than him (given the fact that I was already
disqualified: 1) I had already demonstrated that I could not devote the
proper effort to a Traveller product and still handle my day job--See GT
Aliens with the Hivers in it, and 2) I was not out there fighting to be
involved in post-TNE Traveller and he was, and had already done the hard
work to get permission, so he had earned it). He had already at that point
(I think, this is the best I can remember) written the first 1248 overview
book, so he didn't really want my version of what I would have done, as he
had already worked out his take. I did at that point say that I would like
to see his MS and give him whatever feedback he would like. However, at
the end of the day I did not have time to read it, and decided that was
better anyway.
And the reason is that, say what you will about the way that I accepted my
"expulsion from Eden," (mostly realistically: I had to get another job,
got one with the Army, and was immediately overworked for years) I have
always harbored a deep affection for the work we at GDW did, and always
wished there could be a way to go back and finish it (God knows how). So I
kept most of that stuff, "pondering it in my heart" as they say, and still
do. And I have realized as the years go by (and as folks on this list have
seen) it can be hard to remember everything. And one of the cruelest
tricks of all is that if you start mixing your tattered memories with
other people's memories or ideas, you can start remembering other things
as if you had thought them, and I didn't want that to happen. So I have
not read any 1248 stuff, nor let anyone tell me about it, because that way
I know that whatever I remember about my intent is as unentangled as
possible with anything else.
So I have not read the 1248 stuff. That also means that the 1248 stuff is
not Dave's nor GDW's vision for life after TNE. But I am sure it is very
good, maybe better than what we might have come up with. But it is an
independent creation, and is "a way" that the plot seeds planted in TNE
could have flowered. (Don't you love the way I throw freebie poeticisms in
there?)
One last thing about "Dave's Version." There has been a statement out
there after GDW went down that Dave swore members of the GDW staff to
secrecy, to never reveal our/Dave's/GDW's true intent. That was a "white
lie," not of my creation, but to which I agreed, to help someone out of a
jam. As we know, there is no such thing as a "white lie," and that has
come back to bite me, and cause people who did not already dislike me to
dislike me, and prompt those who already did to feel confirmed in their
sentiments. Oh well, I'd probably do it again under the circumstances. And
let us please agree to not speculate on what I am referring to. No point
in undoing what good it did after this time.
I'll get back to the other questions later, which might allow some members
to say, "Dave said A, B, C" which will help me remember what I've already
said when I get back. Or, if you prefer, don't help me, and see if what I
say this time is consistent with what I've said before. That way you can
test a) how much further my brain has deteriorated, or b) if I was just
making this stuff up the whole time and can't keep my story straight. I
will observe that testing me sounds like a more entertaining option,
unless you don't like hearing me repeat myself. But I figure I repeat
myself a lot here, so you must be tolerant of it. Also, I figure I repeat
myself a lot here, redundantly and repetitively, but apparently you have
built up an immunity against it. Also, I repeat myself. A lot. Here.
> I know I am not Dave nor do I play him on Television but you can check
out
> the Avenger Books,IMHO some really really good stuff.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 12:02 PM, <> wrote:
>
>> ( I'm a relative new comer to the group, and may have missed some of
Dave's prior info on this topic, so feel free to point me to the proper
channels for finding old information. )
>> I would really like to know what the short range and long range (and
medium range, if you recall) timelines were for the New Era universe.
Would
>> the Imperium eventually reform? Would Virus eventually stabilize?
Inquiring Duke ('88) guys want to know. :)
>