> I think the spooky and just depression nature was too downplayed.
Some of that was deliberate. We had a bunch of existing critics who were
always sharpening their knives to accuse us of "dark" games, and allowing
TNE to be influenced too much by DarkCon. But obviously that potential was
there for referees. We just didn't "shine a lot of light" on that.
> The different versions of Traveller each gave you a different type of
> play. I
> can not comment on Mongoose as I do not have any of their stuff nor will
> I. Past
> issues with that company has me leery,I just hope Marc does not regret
> dealing
> with them. Also,GURPS basically abandoning their line is not cool either.
> And in this day and age why there is no miniatures is beyond reason. Both
> ground
> and Space.
>
>
> Wherever you go there you are-Buckaroo Banzai
>
>
> We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to
> visit
> violence on those who would do us harm. (Winston Churchill)
>
>
>
>
> My brother is so stupid he sold his truck for gas money
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
From: Richard Crowley
Sent: Mon, January 28, 2013 4:26:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Traveller_TNE] Re: COTI
>
>
> I think I totally disagree. I feel that the TNE universe did create a good
> environment for players. The UPPs had to be there as a framework to work
> with.
> For me, the MegaTraveller fan, everything came together in "Survival
> Margin." It was a better backstory than the Rebellion Sourcebook. The TAS
> news
> reports in Survival margin are better than I've seen anywhere. That was
> what I
> meant by larger than life personalities with larger than life egos. I
> immediately attached myself to Dulinor and never looked back. I mean "Real
> Strephon" was out there, but Dulinor was a real hero with a real story. It
> was a
> new story, a new type of character generation and new rules for just about
> everything--but it was well done and is still a good example of how
> positive
> role-playing should be approached.
>
>
> I didn't like/understand Virus at first, either but then I realized that
> the
> point of the Dawn League was the idea that space was dangerous now and we
> couldn't just hop in an xboat, visit anywhere we liked and plant flowers
> instead
> of naval bases. These thoughts are reflected in the TNE novel trilogy.
> It's a
> tremendous challenge to a referee, but if refereeing were easy and
> transparent,
> how could it do any good for anyone. I only wish GDW were still alive and
> kicking--maybe we could've had more development for Dark Conspiracy. :)
>
> --- On Mon, 1/28/13, DED > wrote:
>
>
>>From: DED >
>>Subject: [Traveller_TNE] Re: COTI
>>To:
>>Date: Monday, January 28, 2013, 12:55 PM
>>
>>
>>
>>Well, you might not have wanted to "pull the rug out from under
>> players/GMs"
>>with regards to the bad DGP (and whomever else) data but isn't that what
>>happened anyway with the OTU storyline?
>>
>>
>>Before I go any further, let me state that I really enjoy what you did
>> with TNE.
>>I don't want you to think otherwise. But by releasing Virus upon the
>> fractured
>>remains of the Imperium, you in fact *did* pull the rug out from under
>> them. At
>>least, that's how they reacted upon hearing the news that the Imperium,
>> and the
>>little niche they carved out of it with their campaigns, was definitely
>> no more.
>>
>>
>>I agree that the factions were so far gone that there was no hope for a
>> neat and
>>tidy reunification, but I believe that there were players out there who
>> were
>>clinging to some unfounded hope that it *could* be done, assuming you
>> were going
>>to select the faction of *their* choice. Of course, if you hadn't
>> selected their
>>faction, you would've had a whole different tirade: "You can't have a
>> vargr as
>>Emperor!", "Strephon was a clone! The real one died!", "Margaret was a
>> genocidal
>>monster!" And so on and so on.
>>
>>I think you were in a Catch-22 situation. You'd hear the wrath of
>> Trav-fanatics
>>no matter what you did. Yes, IMO changing the UWP's would've stirred up
>> more
>>wrath in the short term, but maybe in the long run it would've been
>> accepted.
>>The stellar data was improved so that was a good start. I don't think
>> anyone
>>complained about that.
>>
>>
>>Of course that's all easy for me to say. :)
>>
>>\_/
>>DED
>>
>>--- dcndcn13@... wrote:
>>>
>>> > So I'm tossing it out and starting from scratch.
>>> >
>>> > \_/
>>> > DED
>>>
>>> You have no idea how much I wished I had had that option when I was at
>>> GDW, as that's what I really wanted to do, and even looked into the
>>> feasibility of it. But by then that buggy DGP program based on the
>>> flawed
>>> GDW-published system (systemS, actually, as there were several accreted
>>> layers) generation thing had permeated the fandom.
>>>
>>> Say what you will about me, but I was very serious about not pulling
>>> the
>>> rug out from under players/GMs who were using stuff that we had allowed
>>> them to believe was true. And in this case I'm speaking of the way GDW
>>> had
>>> allowed DGP to speak on their behalf for so long. I felt it would be a
>>> real breach of faith with the existing players, so did not do it.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> > --- Jeff Dougherty wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Traveller ended up doing neither of these. They created a random
>>> system
>>> >> in which the various factors didn't really inter-relate, which meant
>>> >> that a lot of the maps as written were just stupid. *But* that same
>>> >> system enabled GDW and its various licensees to run through entire
>>> >> sectors of space at high speed, leaving UPPs and not much else in
>>> their
>>> >> wake. The result is that most of the described space in the OTU has
>>> >> neither science behind it, nor any hooks on which to hang a story-
>>> just
>>> >> strings of hexadecimal waiting out there in the darkness to pounce
>>> on
>>> >> the unwary writer trying to make sense or a story out of the whole
>>> mess.
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>
>>
>
Some of that was deliberate. We had a bunch of existing critics who were
always sharpening their knives to accuse us of "dark" games, and allowing
TNE to be influenced too much by DarkCon. But obviously that potential was
there for referees. We just didn't "shine a lot of light" on that.
> The different versions of Traveller each gave you a different type of
> play. I
> can not comment on Mongoose as I do not have any of their stuff nor will
> I. Past
> issues with that company has me leery,I just hope Marc does not regret
> dealing
> with them. Also,GURPS basically abandoning their line is not cool either.
> And in this day and age why there is no miniatures is beyond reason. Both
> ground
> and Space.
>
>
> Wherever you go there you are-Buckaroo Banzai
>
>
> We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to
> visit
> violence on those who would do us harm. (Winston Churchill)
>
>
>
>
> My brother is so stupid he sold his truck for gas money
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
From: Richard Crowley
Sent: Mon, January 28, 2013 4:26:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Traveller_TNE] Re: COTI
>
>
> I think I totally disagree. I feel that the TNE universe did create a good
> environment for players. The UPPs had to be there as a framework to work
> with.
> For me, the MegaTraveller fan, everything came together in "Survival
> Margin." It was a better backstory than the Rebellion Sourcebook. The TAS
> news
> reports in Survival margin are better than I've seen anywhere. That was
> what I
> meant by larger than life personalities with larger than life egos. I
> immediately attached myself to Dulinor and never looked back. I mean "Real
> Strephon" was out there, but Dulinor was a real hero with a real story. It
> was a
> new story, a new type of character generation and new rules for just about
> everything--but it was well done and is still a good example of how
> positive
> role-playing should be approached.
>
>
> I didn't like/understand Virus at first, either but then I realized that
> the
> point of the Dawn League was the idea that space was dangerous now and we
> couldn't just hop in an xboat, visit anywhere we liked and plant flowers
> instead
> of naval bases. These thoughts are reflected in the TNE novel trilogy.
> It's a
> tremendous challenge to a referee, but if refereeing were easy and
> transparent,
> how could it do any good for anyone. I only wish GDW were still alive and
> kicking--maybe we could've had more development for Dark Conspiracy. :)
>
> --- On Mon, 1/28/13, DED > wrote:
>
>
>>From: DED >
>>Subject: [Traveller_TNE] Re: COTI
>>To:
>>Date: Monday, January 28, 2013, 12:55 PM
>>
>>
>>
>>Well, you might not have wanted to "pull the rug out from under
>> players/GMs"
>>with regards to the bad DGP (and whomever else) data but isn't that what
>>happened anyway with the OTU storyline?
>>
>>
>>Before I go any further, let me state that I really enjoy what you did
>> with TNE.
>>I don't want you to think otherwise. But by releasing Virus upon the
>> fractured
>>remains of the Imperium, you in fact *did* pull the rug out from under
>> them. At
>>least, that's how they reacted upon hearing the news that the Imperium,
>> and the
>>little niche they carved out of it with their campaigns, was definitely
>> no more.
>>
>>
>>I agree that the factions were so far gone that there was no hope for a
>> neat and
>>tidy reunification, but I believe that there were players out there who
>> were
>>clinging to some unfounded hope that it *could* be done, assuming you
>> were going
>>to select the faction of *their* choice. Of course, if you hadn't
>> selected their
>>faction, you would've had a whole different tirade: "You can't have a
>> vargr as
>>Emperor!", "Strephon was a clone! The real one died!", "Margaret was a
>> genocidal
>>monster!" And so on and so on.
>>
>>I think you were in a Catch-22 situation. You'd hear the wrath of
>> Trav-fanatics
>>no matter what you did. Yes, IMO changing the UWP's would've stirred up
>> more
>>wrath in the short term, but maybe in the long run it would've been
>> accepted.
>>The stellar data was improved so that was a good start. I don't think
>> anyone
>>complained about that.
>>
>>
>>Of course that's all easy for me to say. :)
>>
>>\_/
>>DED
>>
>>--- dcndcn13@... wrote:
>>>
>>> > So I'm tossing it out and starting from scratch.
>>> >
>>> > \_/
>>> > DED
>>>
>>> You have no idea how much I wished I had had that option when I was at
>>> GDW, as that's what I really wanted to do, and even looked into the
>>> feasibility of it. But by then that buggy DGP program based on the
>>> flawed
>>> GDW-published system (systemS, actually, as there were several accreted
>>> layers) generation thing had permeated the fandom.
>>>
>>> Say what you will about me, but I was very serious about not pulling
>>> the
>>> rug out from under players/GMs who were using stuff that we had allowed
>>> them to believe was true. And in this case I'm speaking of the way GDW
>>> had
>>> allowed DGP to speak on their behalf for so long. I felt it would be a
>>> real breach of faith with the existing players, so did not do it.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> > --- Jeff Dougherty wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Traveller ended up doing neither of these. They created a random
>>> system
>>> >> in which the various factors didn't really inter-relate, which meant
>>> >> that a lot of the maps as written were just stupid. *But* that same
>>> >> system enabled GDW and its various licensees to run through entire
>>> >> sectors of space at high speed, leaving UPPs and not much else in
>>> their
>>> >> wake. The result is that most of the described space in the OTU has
>>> >> neither science behind it, nor any hooks on which to hang a story-
>>> just
>>> >> strings of hexadecimal waiting out there in the darkness to pounce
>>> on
>>> >> the unwary writer trying to make sense or a story out of the whole
>>> mess.
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>
>>
>