Richard--
Thank you very much for the compliments. I know we certainly worked our
a$$es off to make it compelling, and I had to write SM over my 1992
Christmas "vacation," but was pleased with the results. That sort of
"loving attention to detail" is the sort of thing that I always thought
was at the heart of doing things right, and was not always possible under
time constraints.
However, rather than continuing to roll in my laurels (if I may be
permitted to pretend I have any :-)), I'm going to jump to your DC
thought.
After Les left, I also became de facto line manager for DC, which was in
the midst of being phased out (just as X Files was catching on--had we had
the manpower and the ability to read those X Files tea leaves, DC could
have been the thing to keep GDW alive, maybe). I REALLY regretted that we
were phasing it out, because I thought we were just hitting our stride
with Empathic and Proto-Dimensions SBs. As I developed those, I really
started getting excited about where we could take DC, but they were
already known to be the last ones, as we didn't have the manpower to do
that in addition to TNE, T2K, boardgames, miniatures, etc. I think there
could have been a great expansion to the vision of DC, as well as a cool
proto-dimensions expansion for Minion Hunter. For the longest time I felt
DC didn't really have a cohesive vision of what the game was about, it was
a grab bag of creepy things without a structure behind it. But ESB and
PDSB provided that, I thought, and we really could have done great things
with that. If, if, if, if.
> I think I totally disagree. I feel that the TNE universe did create a good
> environment for players. The UPPs had to be there as a framework to work
> with. For me, the MegaTraveller fan, everything came together in
> "Survival Margin."Â Â It was a better backstory than the Rebellion
> Sourcebook. The TAS news reports in Survival margin are better than I've
> seen anywhere. That was what I meant by larger than life personalities
> with larger than life egos. I immediately attached myself to Dulinor and
> never looked back. I mean "Real Strephon" was out there, but Dulinor
> was a real hero with a real story. It was a new story, a new type of
> character generation and new rules for just about everything--but it was
> well done and is still a good example of how positive role-playing should
> be approached.
> Â
> I didn't like/understand Virus at first, either but then I realized that
> the point of the Dawn League was the idea that space was dangerous now and
> we couldn't just hop in an xboat, visit anywhere we liked and plant
> flowers instead of naval bases. These thoughts are reflected in the TNE
> novel trilogy. It's a tremendous challenge to a referee, but if refereeing
> were easy and transparent, how could it do any good for anyone. I only
> wish GDW were still alive and kicking--maybe we could've had more
> development for Dark Conspiracy. :)Â
>
> --- On Mon, 1/28/13, DED > wrote:
>
>
> From: DED >
> Subject: [Traveller_TNE] Re: COTI
> To:
> Date: Monday, January 28, 2013, 12:55 PM
>
>
>
> Â
>
>
>
> Well, you might not have wanted to "pull the rug out from under
> players/GMs" with regards to the bad DGP (and whomever else) data but
> isn't that what happened anyway with the OTU storyline?
>
> Before I go any further, let me state that I really enjoy what you did
> with TNE. I don't want you to think otherwise. But by releasing Virus upon
> the fractured remains of the Imperium, you in fact *did* pull the rug out
> from under them. At least, that's how they reacted upon hearing the news
> that the Imperium, and the little niche they carved out of it with their
> campaigns, was definitely no more.
>
> I agree that the factions were so far gone that there was no hope for a
> neat and tidy reunification, but I believe that there were players out
> there who were clinging to some unfounded hope that it *could* be done,
> assuming you were going to select the faction of *their* choice. Of
> course, if you hadn't selected their faction, you would've had a whole
> different tirade: "You can't have a vargr as Emperor!", "Strephon was a
> clone! The real one died!", "Margaret was a genocidal monster!" And so on
> and so on.
>
> I think you were in a Catch-22 situation. You'd hear the wrath of
> Trav-fanatics no matter what you did. Yes, IMO changing the UWP's would've
> stirred up more wrath in the short term, but maybe in the long run it
> would've been accepted. The stellar data was improved so that was a good
> start. I don't think anyone complained about that.
>
> Of course that's all easy for me to say. :)
>
> \_/
> DED
>
> --- dcndcn13@... wrote:
>>
>> > So I'm tossing it out and starting from scratch.
>> >
>> > \_/
>> > DED
>>
>> You have no idea how much I wished I had had that option when I was at
>> GDW, as that's what I really wanted to do, and even looked into the
>> feasibility of it. But by then that buggy DGP program based on the
>> flawed
>> GDW-published system (systemS, actually, as there were several accreted
>> layers) generation thing had permeated the fandom.
>>
>> Say what you will about me, but I was very serious about not pulling the
>> rug out from under players/GMs who were using stuff that we had allowed
>> them to believe was true. And in this case I'm speaking of the way GDW
>> had
>> allowed DGP to speak on their behalf for so long. I felt it would be a
>> real breach of faith with the existing players, so did not do it.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> > --- Jeff Dougherty wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Traveller ended up doing neither of these. They created a random
>> system
>> >> in which the various factors didn't really inter-relate, which meant
>> >> that a lot of the maps as written were just stupid. *But* that same
>> >> system enabled GDW and its various licensees to run through entire
>> >> sectors of space at high speed, leaving UPPs and not much else in
>> their
>> >> wake. The result is that most of the described space in the OTU has
>> >> neither science behind it, nor any hooks on which to hang a story-
>> just
>> >> strings of hexadecimal waiting out there in the darkness to pounce on
>> >> the unwary writer trying to make sense or a story out of the whole
>> mess.
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Thank you very much for the compliments. I know we certainly worked our
a$$es off to make it compelling, and I had to write SM over my 1992
Christmas "vacation," but was pleased with the results. That sort of
"loving attention to detail" is the sort of thing that I always thought
was at the heart of doing things right, and was not always possible under
time constraints.
However, rather than continuing to roll in my laurels (if I may be
permitted to pretend I have any :-)), I'm going to jump to your DC
thought.
After Les left, I also became de facto line manager for DC, which was in
the midst of being phased out (just as X Files was catching on--had we had
the manpower and the ability to read those X Files tea leaves, DC could
have been the thing to keep GDW alive, maybe). I REALLY regretted that we
were phasing it out, because I thought we were just hitting our stride
with Empathic and Proto-Dimensions SBs. As I developed those, I really
started getting excited about where we could take DC, but they were
already known to be the last ones, as we didn't have the manpower to do
that in addition to TNE, T2K, boardgames, miniatures, etc. I think there
could have been a great expansion to the vision of DC, as well as a cool
proto-dimensions expansion for Minion Hunter. For the longest time I felt
DC didn't really have a cohesive vision of what the game was about, it was
a grab bag of creepy things without a structure behind it. But ESB and
PDSB provided that, I thought, and we really could have done great things
with that. If, if, if, if.
> I think I totally disagree. I feel that the TNE universe did create a good
> environment for players. The UPPs had to be there as a framework to work
> with. For me, the MegaTraveller fan, everything came together in
> "Survival Margin."Â Â It was a better backstory than the Rebellion
> Sourcebook. The TAS news reports in Survival margin are better than I've
> seen anywhere. That was what I meant by larger than life personalities
> with larger than life egos. I immediately attached myself to Dulinor and
> never looked back. I mean "Real Strephon" was out there, but Dulinor
> was a real hero with a real story. It was a new story, a new type of
> character generation and new rules for just about everything--but it was
> well done and is still a good example of how positive role-playing should
> be approached.
> Â
> I didn't like/understand Virus at first, either but then I realized that
> the point of the Dawn League was the idea that space was dangerous now and
> we couldn't just hop in an xboat, visit anywhere we liked and plant
> flowers instead of naval bases. These thoughts are reflected in the TNE
> novel trilogy. It's a tremendous challenge to a referee, but if refereeing
> were easy and transparent, how could it do any good for anyone. I only
> wish GDW were still alive and kicking--maybe we could've had more
> development for Dark Conspiracy. :)Â
>
> --- On Mon, 1/28/13, DED > wrote:
>
>
> From: DED >
> Subject: [Traveller_TNE] Re: COTI
> To:
> Date: Monday, January 28, 2013, 12:55 PM
>
>
>
> Â
>
>
>
> Well, you might not have wanted to "pull the rug out from under
> players/GMs" with regards to the bad DGP (and whomever else) data but
> isn't that what happened anyway with the OTU storyline?
>
> Before I go any further, let me state that I really enjoy what you did
> with TNE. I don't want you to think otherwise. But by releasing Virus upon
> the fractured remains of the Imperium, you in fact *did* pull the rug out
> from under them. At least, that's how they reacted upon hearing the news
> that the Imperium, and the little niche they carved out of it with their
> campaigns, was definitely no more.
>
> I agree that the factions were so far gone that there was no hope for a
> neat and tidy reunification, but I believe that there were players out
> there who were clinging to some unfounded hope that it *could* be done,
> assuming you were going to select the faction of *their* choice. Of
> course, if you hadn't selected their faction, you would've had a whole
> different tirade: "You can't have a vargr as Emperor!", "Strephon was a
> clone! The real one died!", "Margaret was a genocidal monster!" And so on
> and so on.
>
> I think you were in a Catch-22 situation. You'd hear the wrath of
> Trav-fanatics no matter what you did. Yes, IMO changing the UWP's would've
> stirred up more wrath in the short term, but maybe in the long run it
> would've been accepted. The stellar data was improved so that was a good
> start. I don't think anyone complained about that.
>
> Of course that's all easy for me to say. :)
>
> \_/
> DED
>
> --- dcndcn13@... wrote:
>>
>> > So I'm tossing it out and starting from scratch.
>> >
>> > \_/
>> > DED
>>
>> You have no idea how much I wished I had had that option when I was at
>> GDW, as that's what I really wanted to do, and even looked into the
>> feasibility of it. But by then that buggy DGP program based on the
>> flawed
>> GDW-published system (systemS, actually, as there were several accreted
>> layers) generation thing had permeated the fandom.
>>
>> Say what you will about me, but I was very serious about not pulling the
>> rug out from under players/GMs who were using stuff that we had allowed
>> them to believe was true. And in this case I'm speaking of the way GDW
>> had
>> allowed DGP to speak on their behalf for so long. I felt it would be a
>> real breach of faith with the existing players, so did not do it.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> > --- Jeff Dougherty wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Traveller ended up doing neither of these. They created a random
>> system
>> >> in which the various factors didn't really inter-relate, which meant
>> >> that a lot of the maps as written were just stupid. *But* that same
>> >> system enabled GDW and its various licensees to run through entire
>> >> sectors of space at high speed, leaving UPPs and not much else in
>> their
>> >> wake. The result is that most of the described space in the OTU has
>> >> neither science behind it, nor any hooks on which to hang a story-
>> just
>> >> strings of hexadecimal waiting out there in the darkness to pounce on
>> >> the unwary writer trying to make sense or a story out of the whole
>> mess.
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>