I think I totally disagree. I feel that the TNE universe did create a good environment for players. The UPPs had to be there as a framework to work with. For me, the MegaTraveller fan, everything came together in "Survival Margin." It was a better backstory than the Rebellion Sourcebook. The TAS news reports in Survival margin are better than I've seen anywhere. That was what I meant by larger than life personalities with larger than life egos. I immediately attached myself to Dulinor and never looked back. I mean "Real Strephon" was out there, but Dulinor was a real hero with a real story. It was a new story, a new type of character generation and new rules for just about everything--but it was well done and is still a good example of how positive role-playing should be approached.
I didn't like/understand Virus at first, either but then I realized that the point of the Dawn League was the idea that space was dangerous now and we couldn't just hop in an xboat, visit anywhere we liked and plant flowers instead of naval bases. These thoughts are reflected in the TNE novel trilogy. It's a tremendous challenge to a referee, but if refereeing were easy and transparent, how could it do any good for anyone. I only wish GDW were still alive and kicking--maybe we could've had more development for Dark Conspiracy. :)
--- On Mon, 1/28/13, DED > wrote:
From: DED >
Subject: [Traveller_TNE] Re: COTI
To:
Date: Monday, January 28, 2013, 12:55 PM
Well, you might not have wanted to "pull the rug out from under players/GMs" with regards to the bad DGP (and whomever else) data but isn't that what happened anyway with the OTU storyline?
Before I go any further, let me state that I really enjoy what you did with TNE. I don't want you to think otherwise. But by releasing Virus upon the fractured remains of the Imperium, you in fact *did* pull the rug out from under them. At least, that's how they reacted upon hearing the news that the Imperium, and the little niche they carved out of it with their campaigns, was definitely no more.
I agree that the factions were so far gone that there was no hope for a neat and tidy reunification, but I believe that there were players out there who were clinging to some unfounded hope that it *could* be done, assuming you were going to select the faction of *their* choice. Of course, if you hadn't selected their faction, you would've had a whole different tirade: "You can't have a vargr as Emperor!", "Strephon was a clone! The real one died!", "Margaret was a genocidal monster!" And so on and so on.
I think you were in a Catch-22 situation. You'd hear the wrath of Trav-fanatics no matter what you did. Yes, IMO changing the UWP's would've stirred up more wrath in the short term, but maybe in the long run it would've been accepted. The stellar data was improved so that was a good start. I don't think anyone complained about that.
Of course that's all easy for me to say. :)
\_/
DED
--- dcndcn13@... wrote:
>
> > So I'm tossing it out and starting from scratch.
> >
> > \_/
> > DED
>
> You have no idea how much I wished I had had that option when I was at
> GDW, as that's what I really wanted to do, and even looked into the
> feasibility of it. But by then that buggy DGP program based on the flawed
> GDW-published system (systemS, actually, as there were several accreted
> layers) generation thing had permeated the fandom.
>
> Say what you will about me, but I was very serious about not pulling the
> rug out from under players/GMs who were using stuff that we had allowed
> them to believe was true. And in this case I'm speaking of the way GDW had
> allowed DGP to speak on their behalf for so long. I felt it would be a
> real breach of faith with the existing players, so did not do it.
>
> Dave
>
> > --- Jeff Dougherty wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Traveller ended up doing neither of these. They created a random system
> >> in which the various factors didn't really inter-relate, which meant
> >> that a lot of the maps as written were just stupid. *But* that same
> >> system enabled GDW and its various licensees to run through entire
> >> sectors of space at high speed, leaving UPPs and not much else in their
> >> wake. The result is that most of the described space in the OTU has
> >> neither science behind it, nor any hooks on which to hang a story- just
> >> strings of hexadecimal waiting out there in the darkness to pounce on
> >> the unwary writer trying to make sense or a story out of the whole mess.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
I didn't like/understand Virus at first, either but then I realized that the point of the Dawn League was the idea that space was dangerous now and we couldn't just hop in an xboat, visit anywhere we liked and plant flowers instead of naval bases. These thoughts are reflected in the TNE novel trilogy. It's a tremendous challenge to a referee, but if refereeing were easy and transparent, how could it do any good for anyone. I only wish GDW were still alive and kicking--maybe we could've had more development for Dark Conspiracy. :)
--- On Mon, 1/28/13, DED > wrote:
From: DED >
Subject: [Traveller_TNE] Re: COTI
To:
Date: Monday, January 28, 2013, 12:55 PM
Well, you might not have wanted to "pull the rug out from under players/GMs" with regards to the bad DGP (and whomever else) data but isn't that what happened anyway with the OTU storyline?
Before I go any further, let me state that I really enjoy what you did with TNE. I don't want you to think otherwise. But by releasing Virus upon the fractured remains of the Imperium, you in fact *did* pull the rug out from under them. At least, that's how they reacted upon hearing the news that the Imperium, and the little niche they carved out of it with their campaigns, was definitely no more.
I agree that the factions were so far gone that there was no hope for a neat and tidy reunification, but I believe that there were players out there who were clinging to some unfounded hope that it *could* be done, assuming you were going to select the faction of *their* choice. Of course, if you hadn't selected their faction, you would've had a whole different tirade: "You can't have a vargr as Emperor!", "Strephon was a clone! The real one died!", "Margaret was a genocidal monster!" And so on and so on.
I think you were in a Catch-22 situation. You'd hear the wrath of Trav-fanatics no matter what you did. Yes, IMO changing the UWP's would've stirred up more wrath in the short term, but maybe in the long run it would've been accepted. The stellar data was improved so that was a good start. I don't think anyone complained about that.
Of course that's all easy for me to say. :)
\_/
DED
--- dcndcn13@... wrote:
>
> > So I'm tossing it out and starting from scratch.
> >
> > \_/
> > DED
>
> You have no idea how much I wished I had had that option when I was at
> GDW, as that's what I really wanted to do, and even looked into the
> feasibility of it. But by then that buggy DGP program based on the flawed
> GDW-published system (systemS, actually, as there were several accreted
> layers) generation thing had permeated the fandom.
>
> Say what you will about me, but I was very serious about not pulling the
> rug out from under players/GMs who were using stuff that we had allowed
> them to believe was true. And in this case I'm speaking of the way GDW had
> allowed DGP to speak on their behalf for so long. I felt it would be a
> real breach of faith with the existing players, so did not do it.
>
> Dave
>
> > --- Jeff Dougherty wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Traveller ended up doing neither of these. They created a random system
> >> in which the various factors didn't really inter-relate, which meant
> >> that a lot of the maps as written were just stupid. *But* that same
> >> system enabled GDW and its various licensees to run through entire
> >> sectors of space at high speed, leaving UPPs and not much else in their
> >> wake. The result is that most of the described space in the OTU has
> >> neither science behind it, nor any hooks on which to hang a story- just
> >> strings of hexadecimal waiting out there in the darkness to pounce on
> >> the unwary writer trying to make sense or a story out of the whole mess.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>