Sure . But where were the stone age species when the Ancients were running
around? Where were the TL7 equivalents? Even taking the very smallest
numbers for each variable in the eqauation there should be hundreds of
thousands, if not millions of species out there along the spectrum. Maybe
some are done in by Malthusian, some by atomic warfare, etc etc but if
there were 5 Major Races and dozens of Minors in the time of the 3I, where
are the equivalents of the Primordials and Ancients? I guess it's possible
they went Ur-Quan or Kafer on them but that's pretty damned dark.
OTOH, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence so best not to jump to
TOO many conclusions but Traveller seems to fall into the idea that it's
happening now without the hint that it happened before. Star Trek, is also
guilty of this to a large degree. Fermi, of course postulated the possible
answers but I don't find many of them plausible... the most plausible
being that they are everywhere and that leads to tinfoil hat conspiracy
stuff which strains credulity, too...
On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 10:07 AM, John Potter <> wrote:
>
>
> Dave and I discussed this a little on the side there are references to
> Primordial species in the Traveller time line predating the Ancients by
> around 1 billion years.
>
> Sources sighted
> http://dmckinne.winterwar.org/pdfs/TravellerIntegratedTimeline.pdf
>
> But like all things our galaxy is a living thing stars explode and reform
> planets get destroyed or flung off into the cosmos. And empty space is
> 'really' empty. Find a derelict of anything in empty space is nigh
> impossible which is why it makes good story fodder.
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 9:59 AM, Master Uxi <> wrote:
>
>>
>> Does bring to mind a core concept that of Fermi's Paradox. None of
>> the solutions are particularly plausible to me. Noone defies the Galactic
>> Federation/Empire to smuggle us some TL10 widgets for a profit? Simply
>> falling back on "space is big" doesn't grasp the problem that there should
>> be tens of thousands of species at comparable development broadcasting
>> probably indecipherable gibberish before they nuke themselves or fall
>> victim to a Gamma Ray Burst, much less start flying out before joining
>> and/or getting absorbed by the Galactic Gubmint.
>>
>> Traveller's idea is still relatively unique: they're out there and
>> they're human. Kind of. And there's some strange critters, etc. The one
>> thing I find lacking in the Traveller Universe is that outside of the
>> Ancient's there's no other evidence of ancient species. Grandpa should
>> have been running into a Sentient Mileau or something like that. Well
>> perhaps he did but spun them off into the Star Control Universe, he he.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 9:52 AM, John Potter <>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In an author's case (printed medium) I feel that the imagination is the
>>> limiting factor. We only have a sample size of 1 for how life can evolve
>>> (our world). I grant you there is diversity within the over arching system
>>> that exists here however we are all carbon based and all are produced by
>>> the same system.
>>>
>>> A level of understanding about biology is required most authors simply
>>> don't have. So much of scifi aliens fall under archtypical categories which
>>> I am ok with honestly.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever happened to you
> would have been deserved.
>
>
around? Where were the TL7 equivalents? Even taking the very smallest
numbers for each variable in the eqauation there should be hundreds of
thousands, if not millions of species out there along the spectrum. Maybe
some are done in by Malthusian, some by atomic warfare, etc etc but if
there were 5 Major Races and dozens of Minors in the time of the 3I, where
are the equivalents of the Primordials and Ancients? I guess it's possible
they went Ur-Quan or Kafer on them but that's pretty damned dark.
OTOH, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence so best not to jump to
TOO many conclusions but Traveller seems to fall into the idea that it's
happening now without the hint that it happened before. Star Trek, is also
guilty of this to a large degree. Fermi, of course postulated the possible
answers but I don't find many of them plausible... the most plausible
being that they are everywhere and that leads to tinfoil hat conspiracy
stuff which strains credulity, too...
On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 10:07 AM, John Potter <> wrote:
>
>
> Dave and I discussed this a little on the side there are references to
> Primordial species in the Traveller time line predating the Ancients by
> around 1 billion years.
>
> Sources sighted
> http://dmckinne.winterwar.org/pdfs/TravellerIntegratedTimeline.pdf
>
> But like all things our galaxy is a living thing stars explode and reform
> planets get destroyed or flung off into the cosmos. And empty space is
> 'really' empty. Find a derelict of anything in empty space is nigh
> impossible which is why it makes good story fodder.
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 9:59 AM, Master Uxi <> wrote:
>
>>
>> Does bring to mind a core concept that of Fermi's Paradox. None of
>> the solutions are particularly plausible to me. Noone defies the Galactic
>> Federation/Empire to smuggle us some TL10 widgets for a profit? Simply
>> falling back on "space is big" doesn't grasp the problem that there should
>> be tens of thousands of species at comparable development broadcasting
>> probably indecipherable gibberish before they nuke themselves or fall
>> victim to a Gamma Ray Burst, much less start flying out before joining
>> and/or getting absorbed by the Galactic Gubmint.
>>
>> Traveller's idea is still relatively unique: they're out there and
>> they're human. Kind of. And there's some strange critters, etc. The one
>> thing I find lacking in the Traveller Universe is that outside of the
>> Ancient's there's no other evidence of ancient species. Grandpa should
>> have been running into a Sentient Mileau or something like that. Well
>> perhaps he did but spun them off into the Star Control Universe, he he.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 9:52 AM, John Potter <>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In an author's case (printed medium) I feel that the imagination is the
>>> limiting factor. We only have a sample size of 1 for how life can evolve
>>> (our world). I grant you there is diversity within the over arching system
>>> that exists here however we are all carbon based and all are produced by
>>> the same system.
>>>
>>> A level of understanding about biology is required most authors simply
>>> don't have. So much of scifi aliens fall under archtypical categories which
>>> I am ok with honestly.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever happened to you
> would have been deserved.
>
>