Gary
> It is my verbiage, though I don't claim any official connection beyond that
> of a layperson interested in history the perspective it gives in
contemplating faith and the modern world. There are a few positive
comments in the thread at COTI and I got a few PM's also expressing
interest. Some from definitely non-theist perspectives but expressing
appreciation for an angle that they normally didn't use at all and
provided
> good data mining material. Most of the rest hasn't been shared widely.
Yes, but a very well-informed layperson. So are you RC or Eastern
Orthodox? There's a lot of Eastern/Greek Orthodox language in there which
I am only very peripherally familiar with.
So, no one saying, "Gene Roddenberry proved that there will be no religion
in the future?"
> The RC Naval campaign fizzled out well before they got close to launching
> to Alpha Leonis, but I did a bunch of prep (as can be seen). I spent way
> too much time doing individual Grand Masters of the Knights of St George in
> eras I never had any intention of starting a campaign in and their heraldry
> project spun into it's own thing, first doing it by hand then on various
software formats. Most of it's lost by the New Era and would likely
have
> never reached the players except for maybe a summary list, but I had fun
modeling it off of the Templars and Hospitallers
The military orders are a popular entry point for just about anyone.
> It's not all progressive amity, though. Criminal Justice code based on the
> 7 Deadly Sins isn't going to be popular with many in the modern
relativist
> world, or a Church and Knighthood bound by Canon instead of Civil Law. Or
> the perils of Excommunication in such a society. Some of it intended
out
> of practical interpretation and some for drama. Of course, man being
man
> there will be some of those with negative traits and the oddball villain or
> two as a 'man of the cloth' cynically using his religion as a means
rather
> than an end.
>
> The personality of the AZH captured by the Knights of St George and
later
> inhabited by one of Sandman's progeny was going to be most entertaining
since I had it with a mostly intact theological history database at it's
disposal and would tend to debate things like Arius and Trinity or the
Gregorian vs Julian Calendars, etc.
>
>
>
>> 2. I note at the (Second) Council of Nicea in 2054 that US Episcopals
don't join. Is that a result of the recent split with the Anglicans, so
is
>> it based on current events?
>
> No, most of the concept I did in the late 90's and was hypothetical on
the
> ecumenical movement as it was then. I think Episcopalians having women
priests was still relatively a big deal. I did update some of it as I
was
> presenting to COTI (mostly stuff like the disintegration of the EU,
etc),
> but that wasn't a part of it. Mostly I was thinking that the whole
bunch
> wouldn't go over in one mass and there would either be a reformist or
reactionary group that refused to bend to the "Papist apostasy". I had
ideas for one of the Orthodox churches refusing to go along, as well,
though I never pinned down which one or why (leaning on Russian
Orthodox,
> mostly so there could still be some claims of Third Rome, etc).
>
>
>> 3. It is really interesting what you are doing in a game which
>> historically has not addressed religion much.
>
> I definitely thought it was lacking, but it's obviously an area almost
any
> company would be hesitant to get into much detail on since it's so very
easy to offend SOMEONE and dig a big PR hole, if not very serious nut
cases.
>
> I also wanted to bring a different and more serious element to the
rather
> cartoonishly simplistic Solomani Confederation. DGP showed the Booteans as
> one alternative, but the Nazis still seemed way too predominant (though
it
> didn't annoy me as much as the cliches of the French Nth Republic -
Reformed, 2nd Edition, the Latino Banana Republic, corrupt eastern bloc
Europeans, Apartheid in Space, etc. They couldn't all be a bunch of
nincompoop stereotypes could they?
>
>
>> 4. What happens to the Lutherans? Surely you know better than to lump
us
>> in with the rest of the Protestants.
>
> Sure enough. After the Anglicans, I see the Lutherans as the next
closest
> theologically, but there are some pretty big theological bullets, almost
too big to smooth over beyond relatively simple Roman primacy and
calendar
> details like the Orthodox would face. I wouldn't expect either the bulk of
> the self respecting Lutherans to bend on any more than I expect the Rock of
> St Peter's. I would have had relations cordial following Nicea 2054 but had
> ideas for at least one world in the Consolidation with a rich Lutheran
heritage, though refusing to implement a Universal-Orthodox hierarchy,
much
> less bend to it, as a matter of principle. I might not have my finger
on
> the pulse of Lutheran ecumenism enough to be accurately capture that,
though so maybe you can provide a better perspective on how they would
have
> reacted to Vilani contact, the Council itself, and which theological fences
> would be more willing to compromise on than others, if not also the
launch
> of Caelis Torino and the establishment of the TCA, Rule of Man, Turin
Consolidation, Solomani Movement, etc.
>
>
>
>
>
>> 5. I am one of the most ecumenical guys you'll ever meet, but man, I'm not
>> as optimistic as you are in your future history!
>> Please talk about what led you to this singular, distinctive approach.
> I do tend towards optimism, though it's not all roses. Partially I was
trying to emulate medieval Christendom but with a modern humanist
approach
> while trying to keep enough room for adventure and theology for those
inclined. The ecclesiastical language is essential to that spirit as
well
> as the general symbology permeating even lay life.
>
> I think a losing war against the Vilani (as it was hypothesized for the
launch of Caelis Torino) would inspire some open minded theology, as
well.
>
> Catholic-Orthodox... cordiality, if not full reunion seems inevitable. The
> huge differences of the past are relatively trivial today. I've studied
the early history of Christianity at some length, particularly the early
heresies and how the western and eastern Church grew and dealt with
them.
> The whole idea of the culmination of the ecumenical movement stemmed
from
> the ideal scenario and counterpoint to the nasty drama between Patriarch
Michael Kerularios and Cardinal Humbert and the reunion of the two
oldest
> branches of Christianity. Mostly it started from some of my reading of the
> Latin/Greek Schism, so it was no coincidence I put the reunion 1000
years
> later. It might be TOO coincidental but it does seem an obvious date
to
> try to do something symbolic on, as well.
>
> Still, it's almost hilarious to see the differences that Photius
condemned
> as anathema the Latins for things as petty as not beginning Lent until
Ash
> Wednesday instead of 3 days earlier, as well as the classic staples of
married clergy and filioque (which is probably too subtle for most
non-religious to appreciate).
>
> I don't expect many Protestants or modern Evangelicals to join the
party,
> though, without backtracking on relatively core theology that the Catholics
> and Orthodox can't bend on either. Thus not as much mention, except for
the conservative branch of US Episcopalians that is also near to
Catholicism already. Some would be more cordial than others.
>
>
>
>
>> > I Love that Dulinor quote. Hints at a depth and humanity to an
>> otherwise
>> undeveloped character known (and almost universally reviled) only for
what he did, not why.
>> Thanks. I wanted to give him a bit of a grace note, because there had
to
>> have been more going on than just, "destroy it all," but we never got a
chance to hear from him. So the least I could do is give him some
dignity,
>> some regret, some sense that he tried to do something that got screwed
up....before he walked out and got eaten by the steam shovel, or
whatever
>> I did to him.
> I was going to blame some of it on the Virasin. :) The notes for the
Brotherhood of SenWenclus have a few refences to theological debate and
Apologetics defending the Arkgallop of Illelish against the claims of
the
> Dlan Virasin
>
>
>
> It is my verbiage, though I don't claim any official connection beyond that
> of a layperson interested in history the perspective it gives in
contemplating faith and the modern world. There are a few positive
comments in the thread at COTI and I got a few PM's also expressing
interest. Some from definitely non-theist perspectives but expressing
appreciation for an angle that they normally didn't use at all and
provided
> good data mining material. Most of the rest hasn't been shared widely.
Yes, but a very well-informed layperson. So are you RC or Eastern
Orthodox? There's a lot of Eastern/Greek Orthodox language in there which
I am only very peripherally familiar with.
So, no one saying, "Gene Roddenberry proved that there will be no religion
in the future?"
> The RC Naval campaign fizzled out well before they got close to launching
> to Alpha Leonis, but I did a bunch of prep (as can be seen). I spent way
> too much time doing individual Grand Masters of the Knights of St George in
> eras I never had any intention of starting a campaign in and their heraldry
> project spun into it's own thing, first doing it by hand then on various
software formats. Most of it's lost by the New Era and would likely
have
> never reached the players except for maybe a summary list, but I had fun
modeling it off of the Templars and Hospitallers
The military orders are a popular entry point for just about anyone.
> It's not all progressive amity, though. Criminal Justice code based on the
> 7 Deadly Sins isn't going to be popular with many in the modern
relativist
> world, or a Church and Knighthood bound by Canon instead of Civil Law. Or
> the perils of Excommunication in such a society. Some of it intended
out
> of practical interpretation and some for drama. Of course, man being
man
> there will be some of those with negative traits and the oddball villain or
> two as a 'man of the cloth' cynically using his religion as a means
rather
> than an end.
>
> The personality of the AZH captured by the Knights of St George and
later
> inhabited by one of Sandman's progeny was going to be most entertaining
since I had it with a mostly intact theological history database at it's
disposal and would tend to debate things like Arius and Trinity or the
Gregorian vs Julian Calendars, etc.
>
>
>
>> 2. I note at the (Second) Council of Nicea in 2054 that US Episcopals
don't join. Is that a result of the recent split with the Anglicans, so
is
>> it based on current events?
>
> No, most of the concept I did in the late 90's and was hypothetical on
the
> ecumenical movement as it was then. I think Episcopalians having women
priests was still relatively a big deal. I did update some of it as I
was
> presenting to COTI (mostly stuff like the disintegration of the EU,
etc),
> but that wasn't a part of it. Mostly I was thinking that the whole
bunch
> wouldn't go over in one mass and there would either be a reformist or
reactionary group that refused to bend to the "Papist apostasy". I had
ideas for one of the Orthodox churches refusing to go along, as well,
though I never pinned down which one or why (leaning on Russian
Orthodox,
> mostly so there could still be some claims of Third Rome, etc).
>
>
>> 3. It is really interesting what you are doing in a game which
>> historically has not addressed religion much.
>
> I definitely thought it was lacking, but it's obviously an area almost
any
> company would be hesitant to get into much detail on since it's so very
easy to offend SOMEONE and dig a big PR hole, if not very serious nut
cases.
>
> I also wanted to bring a different and more serious element to the
rather
> cartoonishly simplistic Solomani Confederation. DGP showed the Booteans as
> one alternative, but the Nazis still seemed way too predominant (though
it
> didn't annoy me as much as the cliches of the French Nth Republic -
Reformed, 2nd Edition, the Latino Banana Republic, corrupt eastern bloc
Europeans, Apartheid in Space, etc. They couldn't all be a bunch of
nincompoop stereotypes could they?
>
>
>> 4. What happens to the Lutherans? Surely you know better than to lump
us
>> in with the rest of the Protestants.
>
> Sure enough. After the Anglicans, I see the Lutherans as the next
closest
> theologically, but there are some pretty big theological bullets, almost
too big to smooth over beyond relatively simple Roman primacy and
calendar
> details like the Orthodox would face. I wouldn't expect either the bulk of
> the self respecting Lutherans to bend on any more than I expect the Rock of
> St Peter's. I would have had relations cordial following Nicea 2054 but had
> ideas for at least one world in the Consolidation with a rich Lutheran
heritage, though refusing to implement a Universal-Orthodox hierarchy,
much
> less bend to it, as a matter of principle. I might not have my finger
on
> the pulse of Lutheran ecumenism enough to be accurately capture that,
though so maybe you can provide a better perspective on how they would
have
> reacted to Vilani contact, the Council itself, and which theological fences
> would be more willing to compromise on than others, if not also the
launch
> of Caelis Torino and the establishment of the TCA, Rule of Man, Turin
Consolidation, Solomani Movement, etc.
>
>
>
>
>
>> 5. I am one of the most ecumenical guys you'll ever meet, but man, I'm not
>> as optimistic as you are in your future history!
>> Please talk about what led you to this singular, distinctive approach.
> I do tend towards optimism, though it's not all roses. Partially I was
trying to emulate medieval Christendom but with a modern humanist
approach
> while trying to keep enough room for adventure and theology for those
inclined. The ecclesiastical language is essential to that spirit as
well
> as the general symbology permeating even lay life.
>
> I think a losing war against the Vilani (as it was hypothesized for the
launch of Caelis Torino) would inspire some open minded theology, as
well.
>
> Catholic-Orthodox... cordiality, if not full reunion seems inevitable. The
> huge differences of the past are relatively trivial today. I've studied
the early history of Christianity at some length, particularly the early
heresies and how the western and eastern Church grew and dealt with
them.
> The whole idea of the culmination of the ecumenical movement stemmed
from
> the ideal scenario and counterpoint to the nasty drama between Patriarch
Michael Kerularios and Cardinal Humbert and the reunion of the two
oldest
> branches of Christianity. Mostly it started from some of my reading of the
> Latin/Greek Schism, so it was no coincidence I put the reunion 1000
years
> later. It might be TOO coincidental but it does seem an obvious date
to
> try to do something symbolic on, as well.
>
> Still, it's almost hilarious to see the differences that Photius
condemned
> as anathema the Latins for things as petty as not beginning Lent until
Ash
> Wednesday instead of 3 days earlier, as well as the classic staples of
married clergy and filioque (which is probably too subtle for most
non-religious to appreciate).
>
> I don't expect many Protestants or modern Evangelicals to join the
party,
> though, without backtracking on relatively core theology that the Catholics
> and Orthodox can't bend on either. Thus not as much mention, except for
the conservative branch of US Episcopalians that is also near to
Catholicism already. Some would be more cordial than others.
>
>
>
>
>> > I Love that Dulinor quote. Hints at a depth and humanity to an
>> otherwise
>> undeveloped character known (and almost universally reviled) only for
what he did, not why.
>> Thanks. I wanted to give him a bit of a grace note, because there had
to
>> have been more going on than just, "destroy it all," but we never got a
chance to hear from him. So the least I could do is give him some
dignity,
>> some regret, some sense that he tried to do something that got screwed
up....before he walked out and got eaten by the steam shovel, or
whatever
>> I did to him.
> I was going to blame some of it on the Virasin. :) The notes for the
Brotherhood of SenWenclus have a few refences to theological debate and
Apologetics defending the Arkgallop of Illelish against the claims of
the
> Dlan Virasin
>
>
>