Re: Norris (was RE: [Traveller_TNE] Re: Armor XXI--> Planetary

Personally, the biggest problem I had with Dulinor wasn't his offing Strephon. Assassination is an occupational hazard for Emperors, there was precedent, and Dulinor had a decent case for doing it (whether or not you agree with it is another matter). The biggest problem I had was his killing Strephon, making his claim to the throne by right of assassination- and then promptly lighting out for his domain rather than sticking around to consolidate his power on Capital. I've always found this inexplicable if you accept that he actually wanted the throne, and frankly it smacked of writer's fiat to make sure the whole scenario turned into civil war rather than a just a messy end to the Alkhilatoi (sp?) dynasty.

The best rational explanation, of course, is that Dulinor wanted civil war. But why would he want that? *evil_grin*

-JTD

Not sent from my iPad

On Jun 15, 2012, at 12:18 PM, wrote:

> I think you're right that there is a lot more to Dulinor than is easily
> apparent from 50,000 feet.
>
> I found it hard to try to rehabilitate him because he was the spark that
> started the whole mess. Given the other characters that didn't have quite
> so much, "Oops" on their hands, I left Dulinor to lay in his own bed.
>
> --------------------
>
> I do love the depth of Norris character and hood evolution by edition
> through the changes if the setting. MT made him an archduke and statesman.
> TNE made him Regent, father, and creator of something new.
>
> From MT though, I've always been more interested in Dulinor, though. Easy
> to malign the character as a cardboard cutout but which of us has never
> given in to our vanity or pride? Two quotes from MT summarize the
> character to me: his counter/compliment to the Norris/Strephon letter and
> the Imperial Encyclopedia GM addendum entry indicating he acted entirely
> proper, as was his right as an archduke. The former expresses his own
> humanity and the latter the social, if not moral context of his fictional
> society.
>
> ---
> from my T989
>
> wrote:
>
> Thank you VERY much, Mike. That brought the almost-beginnings of little
> tears to my eyes.
>
> He was a good man in a position where he wasn't granted the luxury of
> simply being good, but because he was good you could trust that the net
> results of his compromises with reality would be at least in the best
> possible direction. I also believe that he and Strephon had something like
> an actual friendship, or as close to it as possible given the distance.
>
> Off the top of my head, I think the existing characters (as opposed to the
> new characters created in the RC) that were nearest to my heart were
> Norris, Strephon, and Craig, though I didn't get a chance to do much with
> Craig.
>
> I'm thinking of "Ode to Old Chrome-Dome" and thinking of how I've seen
> reviews of TNE over the years to the effect, "nice rules, but too much
> poetry." (Or "too much bad poetry," but ordinary people write bad poetry,
> but Charted Space is filled with ordinary people who have feelings too.)
> Yeah, but I thought it needed the poetry. I wanted to hear people's voices
> about how this stuff made them feel, and I think the players needed to
> hear it too. And there was poetry of a sort in Twilight's Peak, so there's
> a "canonical" precedent.
>
> Thanks again, Mike. It's nice to hear that some of the stuff intended to
> touch did, in fact, touch.
>
> Dave
>
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> > Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 08:48:32 -0700 (PDT)
> > Subject: Re: Norris (was RE: [Traveller_TNE] Re: Armor XXI--> Planetary
> > Environments part 2)
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> > 
> >
> > <div id="ygrp-text" >
> >
> >
> > <p><div><br></div><div>I do love the depth of Norris character and
> > hood evolution by edition through the changes if the setting. MT
> > made him an archduke and statesman. TNE made him Regent, father, and
> > creator of something new. </div><div><br></div><div>From MT
> > though, I've always been more interested in Dulinor, though. Easy to
> > malign the character as a cardboard cutout but which of us has never
> > given in to our vanity or pride? Two quotes from MT summarize the
> > character to me: his counter/compliment to the Norris/Strephon
> > letter and the Imperial Encyclopedia GM addendum entry indicating he
> > acted entirely proper, as was his right as an archduke. The former
> > expresses his own humanity and the latter the social, if not moral
> > context of his fictional
> > society.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div
> > style="font-size:100%;">---<br>from my T989</div></div>
> > <br><br> wrote:<br><br>
> > <span> </span>
> >
> >
> >
> > <div id="ygrp-text">
> >
> >
> > <p>Thank you VERY much, Mike. That brought the almost-beginnings of
> > little<br>
> > tears to my eyes.<br>
> > <br>
> > He was a good man in a position where he wasn't granted the luxury of<br>
> > simply being good, but because he was good you could trust that the
> > net<br>
> > results of his compromises with reality would be at least in the best<br>
> > possible direction. I also believe that he and Strephon had something
> > like<br>
> > an actual friendship, or as close to it as possible given the
> > distance.<br>
> > <br>
> > Off the top of my head, I think the existing characters (as opposed to
> > the<br>
> > new characters created in the RC) that were nearest to my heart were<br>
> > Norris, Strephon, and Craig, though I didn't get a chance to do much
> > with<br>
> > Craig.<br>
> > <br>
> > I'm thinking of "Ode to Old Chrome-Dome" and thinking of how I've seen<br>
> > reviews of TNE over the years to the effect, "nice rules, but too much<br>
> > poetry." (Or "too much bad poetry," but ordinary people write bad
> > poetry,<br>
> > but Charted Space is filled with ordinary people who have feelings
> > too.)<br>
> > Yeah, but I thought it needed the poetry. I wanted to hear people's
> > voices<br>
> > about how this stuff made them feel, and I think the players needed to<br>
> > hear it too. And there was poetry of a sort in Twilight's Peak, so
> > there's<br>
> > a "canonical" precedent.<br>
> > <br>
> > Thanks again, Mike. It's nice to hear that some of the stuff intended
> > to<br>
> > touch did, in fact, touch.<br>
> > <br>
> > Dave<br>
> > <br>
> > > Oh, and while I am talking about the RSB, I do want to make
> > mention<br>
> > > of what you did with Norris. I thought it was brilliant. In a
> > nutshell,<br>
> > > you took everything you did to and with the Star Vikings and
> > compressed<br>
> > > it into a single individual.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Norris was a man with a good heart and strong character who was
> > destined<br>
> > > for greatness even though he never sought it. But to accomplish
> > those<br>
> > > great things he had to make some horrible and compromising choices.
> > While<br>
> > > he did not have to endure the public flogging that the Star Vikings
> > did,<br>
> > > he still knew the terrible compromises he made and had to live with
> > them<br>
> > > until the day he died.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > From founding his leadership on a lie, to potentially condemning
> > billions<br>
> > > to probable death outside his arbitrary border, to forcing the love
> > of<br>
> > > his life to keep their relationship a secret, to forcing his
> > daughter<br>
> > > to marry someone she considered a son, he truly did some terrible
> > things.<br>
> > > But even so, he was still always a good man trying his hardest to do
> > the<br>
> > > most good he could regardless of the costs to himself or anyone
> > else.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > To me, Norris is the most realized character in all of Traveller.
> > And,<br>
> > > like you did with the Hivers, you took the established history, spun
> > it<br>
> > > around, and gave it much more depth than it ever had prior.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Mike West<br>
> > > <a
> > href=""></a><br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > <br>
> > </p>
> >
> > </div>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> > </p>
> >
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> >
> >
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