> Seriously what'd he find? Online competitive gaming?
Palettes and palettes and palettes of bottled water being shipped around
Charted Space so that we can pay more money, waste more resources, and
create more garbage.
"Selling ice to eskimos" is supposed to be silly, but pity the poor Romans
who wasted all that time building aqueducts for us. We are now living in
"post-civilization," I guess.
> Why do for yourself what you can get someone else to do 100 centuries from
> now?
>
> Ancients Proverb
>
> Seriously what'd he find? Online competitive gaming?
>
> Derek Stanley
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Mar 30, 2014, at 8:42 PM, Master Uxi <> wrote:
>>
>> I think I think there were still plenty of mysteries with the Ancients.
>> Specifically what the purpose of Yaskoydray was with his manipulations
>> on humanity, the Vargr, etc. Exactly why he wigged out on his children
>> to where he felt he needed to exterminate them... The references that
>> they didn't initially understand his objective (or by what means they
>> arrived at that conjecture) means it wasn't really a Droyne thing,
>> either. And of course what he's been up to since.
>>
>> I do like Dave's decision to not take the easy way and have the Ancients
>> be the cause for the EW, but that something they themselves were
>> interested in, which is why they had a starmap on Zdhant for the Zhos
>> to find....
>> - Sent from my SM-N900T
>>
>>> On Mar 30, 2014 7:18 PM, "DEREK STANLEY" <> wrote:
>>>
>>> This was the problem I had with the ancients mystery, I both want to
>>> and don't want to know. I know enough that a lot of it is no longer a
>>> mystery, and there's still enough to tantalize me. The more I learn,
>>> the less glamorous and exciting the mystery becomes because my mind is
>>> no longer trying to fill in the gaps.
>>>
>>> Take for example the TV show Lost, unseen freaky monster that uproots
>>> trees in the middle of the night making this horrible mechanical sounds
>>> and killing people at random. Is vastly scarier than the physical form
>>> they gave the critter 2 seasons later. Imagination is always scarier
>>> than reality.
>>>
>>> Derek Stanley
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>> On Mar 30, 2014, at 4:10 PM, wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's one of the fun things about Traveller, that we tried to
>>>> explicitly
>>>> use in TNE, which is life recapitulating fiction, where something
>>>> "known"
>>>> in the game becomes something "secret" in the game, although hidden
>>>> in
>>>> plain sight.
>>>>
>>>> My advice to you and Derek is keep your brains pure the way they are
>>>> and
>>>> let the mystery remain a mystery. Too much knowledge about the
>>>> (in-game
>>>> fiction) "truth" makes it deterministic and takes away the fun. Or, to
>>>> put
>>>> it in terms of quantum theory, it's much more fun to think that an
>>>> electon
>>>> can be in an infinite number of places than to try measure it and
>>>> collapse
>>>> the probability wave into simple mundane facts.
>>>>
>>>> > Iâm w/ DS on this...
>>>> > WTF..???
>>>> >
>>>> > Might have some pretty ugly implications for some PBEMâs underway,
>>>> right
>>>> > now...(one of which is probably one of the LONGEST running Trav
>>>> PBEM
>>>> > gameâs, to date...8-)....
>>>> >
>>>> > C/L
>>>> >
>>>> > From: DEREK STANLEY
>>>> > Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2014 3:40 PM
>>>> > To:
>>>> > Subject: [Traveller_TNE] The Ancients
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > I've got to admit to being completely in the dark here. None of my
>>>> old
>>>> > campaigns had anything to do with the ancients and my GM at the time
>>>> had
>>>> > all the material.
>>>> >
>>>> > I know that the droyne are tied in with the ancients. I know
>>>> grandfather
>>>> > sealed himself off in a pocket universe. I know that they seeded
>>>> human
>>>> > life about the cosmos and uplifted the Vargr. Something happened and
>>>> they
>>>> > went away.
>>>> >
>>>> > That's honestly about what I know.
>>>> >
>>>> > Derek Stanley
>>>> > Sent from my iPad
>>>> >
>>>> > On Mar 30, 2014, at 3:03 PM, Master Uxi <>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > - Sent from my SM-N900T
>>>> > On Mar 30, 2014 1:59 PM, <> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > > The Zho version of "going native" would include going beyond
>>>> their
>>>> > own
>>>> > > > norms if not beyond what the Thought Police could be able to
>>>> correct
>>>> > (the
>>>> > > > "supercharged") or even understand (the "possessed").
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > At its simplest though, yeah. These descendents could easily
>>>> obtain
>>>> > their
>>>> > > > own agenda which diverges from that of the Consulate and their
>>>> > forebears &
>>>> > > > would have every inclination to resist the Thought Police or
>>>> the
>>>> > even
>>>> > > > nominal subservience and a classic struggle for independence
>>>> > >
>>>> > > I like that because it gets at the semi-artificial/arbitrary
>>>> notion of
>>>> > > "race" as less physical/genetic than behavioral, and that
>>>> behavioral
>>>> > > differences can cause prejudices even worse than physical
>>>> differences.
>>>> >
>>>> > And yet could reinforce them at the same time if it's only certain
>>>> > subset of Zhos. Knowing that those who go beyond a certain point
>>>> are...
>>>> > affected somehow, they might be inclined to send those other than
>>>> their
>>>> > best & brightest, who would be "manning the walls," as it were.
>>>> Until
>>>> > the walls bypass them. Thus would have probably happened a couple
>>>> times
>>>> > before they figured out that the wave was moving towards the
>>>> Consulate
>>>> > and one could almost feel the collective face palm and hindsight
>>>> and/or
>>>> > guilt towards how they might have treated those who would have been
>>>> > subject to exile/quarantine/invasive examination by the Thought
>>>> Police
>>>> > even when not noticeably affected just because they passed certain
>>>> > moving goalposts.
>>>> >
>>>> > I could see no Dlolprikls or being risked or only Dleqiats or
>>>> Qiknavran
>>>> > (or subsets of) for ex. They were supposedly strictly meritocrious
>>>> but
>>>> > humans have a way for forming cliques regardless... even when
>>>> otherwise
>>>> > know better, they could be falsely premised on subjective
>>>> qualities.
>>>> >
>>>> > > > Indeed. The goal was always to get to the Core eventually,
>>>> though
>>>> > > > originally set to a conservative pace.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Or not so much the Core per se, but whatever it is about "The
>>>> Core"
>>>> > that
>>>> > > made the original Ancient device point them that way, which
>>>> presumably
>>>> > is
>>>> > > not something invented by Yaskoydray, but something to which
>>>> > Yaskoydray
>>>> > > was also subject, and which therefore interested him.
>>>> >
>>>> > Indeed. Possibly hinting at whatever the Children & Grandchildren
>>>> were
>>>> > doing that caused Grandfather to react so extremely, as well
>>>> (always
>>>> > have visions of them interfering in either abonimable ways... or
>>>> perhaps
>>>> > refusing to abide the abominable things Yaskoydray was doing. The
>>>> entire
>>>> > Ancient's Final War lends itself to some grand implications...
>>>> Though
>>>> > could easily be as trivial as that which split the Third Imperium,
>>>> if
>>>> > not seen as bizarrely so by human standards, though perhaps not to
>>>> > Droyne).
>>>> >
>>>> > > > The CriZhos would be more intimately concerned the farther they
>>>> were
>>>> > > > Coreward and would also have increasingly divergent interests
>>>> from
>>>> > the
>>>> > > > Consulate, starting with their own prosperity & security.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > As well as prejudice/judgement they might receive when the "Real
>>>> Zho"
>>>> > > resupply/commo missions come through.
>>>> >
>>>> > Definitely. The unknown naturally lends itself to uncertainty, if
>>>> not
>>>> > suspicion (and thence paranoia) and even nominally rational people
>>>> using
>>>> > a scientific method can come to mistaken conclusions based on
>>>> faulty
>>>> > premises & make placebo responses.
>>>> >
>>>> > Especially when things go south, one can Zhos who wouldn't exactly
>>>> be
>>>> > eager to maje resupply runs into affected areas since they may not
>>>> be
>>>> > allowed back or would be under suspicion if not scrutiny even if
>>>> they
>>>> > were cleared by the authorities.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
Palettes and palettes and palettes of bottled water being shipped around
Charted Space so that we can pay more money, waste more resources, and
create more garbage.
"Selling ice to eskimos" is supposed to be silly, but pity the poor Romans
who wasted all that time building aqueducts for us. We are now living in
"post-civilization," I guess.
> Why do for yourself what you can get someone else to do 100 centuries from
> now?
>
> Ancients Proverb
>
> Seriously what'd he find? Online competitive gaming?
>
> Derek Stanley
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Mar 30, 2014, at 8:42 PM, Master Uxi <> wrote:
>>
>> I think I think there were still plenty of mysteries with the Ancients.
>> Specifically what the purpose of Yaskoydray was with his manipulations
>> on humanity, the Vargr, etc. Exactly why he wigged out on his children
>> to where he felt he needed to exterminate them... The references that
>> they didn't initially understand his objective (or by what means they
>> arrived at that conjecture) means it wasn't really a Droyne thing,
>> either. And of course what he's been up to since.
>>
>> I do like Dave's decision to not take the easy way and have the Ancients
>> be the cause for the EW, but that something they themselves were
>> interested in, which is why they had a starmap on Zdhant for the Zhos
>> to find....
>> - Sent from my SM-N900T
>>
>>> On Mar 30, 2014 7:18 PM, "DEREK STANLEY" <> wrote:
>>>
>>> This was the problem I had with the ancients mystery, I both want to
>>> and don't want to know. I know enough that a lot of it is no longer a
>>> mystery, and there's still enough to tantalize me. The more I learn,
>>> the less glamorous and exciting the mystery becomes because my mind is
>>> no longer trying to fill in the gaps.
>>>
>>> Take for example the TV show Lost, unseen freaky monster that uproots
>>> trees in the middle of the night making this horrible mechanical sounds
>>> and killing people at random. Is vastly scarier than the physical form
>>> they gave the critter 2 seasons later. Imagination is always scarier
>>> than reality.
>>>
>>> Derek Stanley
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>> On Mar 30, 2014, at 4:10 PM, wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's one of the fun things about Traveller, that we tried to
>>>> explicitly
>>>> use in TNE, which is life recapitulating fiction, where something
>>>> "known"
>>>> in the game becomes something "secret" in the game, although hidden
>>>> in
>>>> plain sight.
>>>>
>>>> My advice to you and Derek is keep your brains pure the way they are
>>>> and
>>>> let the mystery remain a mystery. Too much knowledge about the
>>>> (in-game
>>>> fiction) "truth" makes it deterministic and takes away the fun. Or, to
>>>> put
>>>> it in terms of quantum theory, it's much more fun to think that an
>>>> electon
>>>> can be in an infinite number of places than to try measure it and
>>>> collapse
>>>> the probability wave into simple mundane facts.
>>>>
>>>> > Iâm w/ DS on this...
>>>> > WTF..???
>>>> >
>>>> > Might have some pretty ugly implications for some PBEMâs underway,
>>>> right
>>>> > now...(one of which is probably one of the LONGEST running Trav
>>>> PBEM
>>>> > gameâs, to date...8-)....
>>>> >
>>>> > C/L
>>>> >
>>>> > From: DEREK STANLEY
>>>> > Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2014 3:40 PM
>>>> > To:
>>>> > Subject: [Traveller_TNE] The Ancients
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > I've got to admit to being completely in the dark here. None of my
>>>> old
>>>> > campaigns had anything to do with the ancients and my GM at the time
>>>> had
>>>> > all the material.
>>>> >
>>>> > I know that the droyne are tied in with the ancients. I know
>>>> grandfather
>>>> > sealed himself off in a pocket universe. I know that they seeded
>>>> human
>>>> > life about the cosmos and uplifted the Vargr. Something happened and
>>>> they
>>>> > went away.
>>>> >
>>>> > That's honestly about what I know.
>>>> >
>>>> > Derek Stanley
>>>> > Sent from my iPad
>>>> >
>>>> > On Mar 30, 2014, at 3:03 PM, Master Uxi <>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > - Sent from my SM-N900T
>>>> > On Mar 30, 2014 1:59 PM, <> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > > The Zho version of "going native" would include going beyond
>>>> their
>>>> > own
>>>> > > > norms if not beyond what the Thought Police could be able to
>>>> correct
>>>> > (the
>>>> > > > "supercharged") or even understand (the "possessed").
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > At its simplest though, yeah. These descendents could easily
>>>> obtain
>>>> > their
>>>> > > > own agenda which diverges from that of the Consulate and their
>>>> > forebears &
>>>> > > > would have every inclination to resist the Thought Police or
>>>> the
>>>> > even
>>>> > > > nominal subservience and a classic struggle for independence
>>>> > >
>>>> > > I like that because it gets at the semi-artificial/arbitrary
>>>> notion of
>>>> > > "race" as less physical/genetic than behavioral, and that
>>>> behavioral
>>>> > > differences can cause prejudices even worse than physical
>>>> differences.
>>>> >
>>>> > And yet could reinforce them at the same time if it's only certain
>>>> > subset of Zhos. Knowing that those who go beyond a certain point
>>>> are...
>>>> > affected somehow, they might be inclined to send those other than
>>>> their
>>>> > best & brightest, who would be "manning the walls," as it were.
>>>> Until
>>>> > the walls bypass them. Thus would have probably happened a couple
>>>> times
>>>> > before they figured out that the wave was moving towards the
>>>> Consulate
>>>> > and one could almost feel the collective face palm and hindsight
>>>> and/or
>>>> > guilt towards how they might have treated those who would have been
>>>> > subject to exile/quarantine/invasive examination by the Thought
>>>> Police
>>>> > even when not noticeably affected just because they passed certain
>>>> > moving goalposts.
>>>> >
>>>> > I could see no Dlolprikls or being risked or only Dleqiats or
>>>> Qiknavran
>>>> > (or subsets of) for ex. They were supposedly strictly meritocrious
>>>> but
>>>> > humans have a way for forming cliques regardless... even when
>>>> otherwise
>>>> > know better, they could be falsely premised on subjective
>>>> qualities.
>>>> >
>>>> > > > Indeed. The goal was always to get to the Core eventually,
>>>> though
>>>> > > > originally set to a conservative pace.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Or not so much the Core per se, but whatever it is about "The
>>>> Core"
>>>> > that
>>>> > > made the original Ancient device point them that way, which
>>>> presumably
>>>> > is
>>>> > > not something invented by Yaskoydray, but something to which
>>>> > Yaskoydray
>>>> > > was also subject, and which therefore interested him.
>>>> >
>>>> > Indeed. Possibly hinting at whatever the Children & Grandchildren
>>>> were
>>>> > doing that caused Grandfather to react so extremely, as well
>>>> (always
>>>> > have visions of them interfering in either abonimable ways... or
>>>> perhaps
>>>> > refusing to abide the abominable things Yaskoydray was doing. The
>>>> entire
>>>> > Ancient's Final War lends itself to some grand implications...
>>>> Though
>>>> > could easily be as trivial as that which split the Third Imperium,
>>>> if
>>>> > not seen as bizarrely so by human standards, though perhaps not to
>>>> > Droyne).
>>>> >
>>>> > > > The CriZhos would be more intimately concerned the farther they
>>>> were
>>>> > > > Coreward and would also have increasingly divergent interests
>>>> from
>>>> > the
>>>> > > > Consulate, starting with their own prosperity & security.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > As well as prejudice/judgement they might receive when the "Real
>>>> Zho"
>>>> > > resupply/commo missions come through.
>>>> >
>>>> > Definitely. The unknown naturally lends itself to uncertainty, if
>>>> not
>>>> > suspicion (and thence paranoia) and even nominally rational people
>>>> using
>>>> > a scientific method can come to mistaken conclusions based on
>>>> faulty
>>>> > premises & make placebo responses.
>>>> >
>>>> > Especially when things go south, one can Zhos who wouldn't exactly
>>>> be
>>>> > eager to maje resupply runs into affected areas since they may not
>>>> be
>>>> > allowed back or would be under suspicion if not scrutiny even if
>>>> they
>>>> > were cleared by the authorities.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>