That's one of the fun things about Traveller, that we tried to explicitly
use in TNE, which is life recapitulating fiction, where something "known"
in the game becomes something "secret" in the game, although hidden in
plain sight.
My advice to you and Derek is keep your brains pure the way they are and
let the mystery remain a mystery. Too much knowledge about the (in-game
fiction) "truth" makes it deterministic and takes away the fun. Or, to put
it in terms of quantum theory, it's much more fun to think that an electon
can be in an infinite number of places than to try measure it and collapse
the probability wave into simple mundane facts.
> Iâm w/ DS on this...
> WTF..???
>
> Might have some pretty ugly implications for some PBEMâs underway, right
> now...(one of which is probably one of the LONGEST running Trav PBEM
> gameâs, to date...8-)....
>
> C/L
>
> From: DEREK STANLEY
> Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2014 3:40 PM
> To:
> Subject: [Traveller_TNE] The Ancients
>
>
>
> I've got to admit to being completely in the dark here. None of my old
> campaigns had anything to do with the ancients and my GM at the time had
> all the material.
>
> I know that the droyne are tied in with the ancients. I know grandfather
> sealed himself off in a pocket universe. I know that they seeded human
> life about the cosmos and uplifted the Vargr. Something happened and they
> went away.
>
> That's honestly about what I know.
>
> Derek Stanley
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Mar 30, 2014, at 3:03 PM, Master Uxi <> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> - Sent from my SM-N900T
> On Mar 30, 2014 1:59 PM, <> wrote:
>
> >
> > > The Zho version of "going native" would include going beyond their
> own
> > > norms if not beyond what the Thought Police could be able to correct
> (the
> > > "supercharged") or even understand (the "possessed").
> > >
> > > At its simplest though, yeah. These descendents could easily obtain
> their
> > > own agenda which diverges from that of the Consulate and their
> forebears &
> > > would have every inclination to resist the Thought Police or the
> even
> > > nominal subservience and a classic struggle for independence
> >
> > I like that because it gets at the semi-artificial/arbitrary notion of
> > "race" as less physical/genetic than behavioral, and that behavioral
> > differences can cause prejudices even worse than physical differences.
>
> And yet could reinforce them at the same time if it's only certain
> subset of Zhos. Knowing that those who go beyond a certain point are...
> affected somehow, they might be inclined to send those other than their
> best & brightest, who would be "manning the walls," as it were. Until
> the walls bypass them. Thus would have probably happened a couple times
> before they figured out that the wave was moving towards the Consulate
> and one could almost feel the collective face palm and hindsight and/or
> guilt towards how they might have treated those who would have been
> subject to exile/quarantine/invasive examination by the Thought Police
> even when not noticeably affected just because they passed certain
> moving goalposts.
>
> I could see no Dlolprikls or being risked or only Dleqiats or Qiknavran
> (or subsets of) for ex. They were supposedly strictly meritocrious but
> humans have a way for forming cliques regardless... even when otherwise
> know better, they could be falsely premised on subjective qualities.
>
> > > Indeed. The goal was always to get to the Core eventually, though
> > > originally set to a conservative pace.
> >
> > Or not so much the Core per se, but whatever it is about "The Core"
> that
> > made the original Ancient device point them that way, which presumably
> is
> > not something invented by Yaskoydray, but something to which
> Yaskoydray
> > was also subject, and which therefore interested him.
>
> Indeed. Possibly hinting at whatever the Children & Grandchildren were
> doing that caused Grandfather to react so extremely, as well (always
> have visions of them interfering in either abonimable ways... or perhaps
> refusing to abide the abominable things Yaskoydray was doing. The entire
> Ancient's Final War lends itself to some grand implications... Though
> could easily be as trivial as that which split the Third Imperium, if
> not seen as bizarrely so by human standards, though perhaps not to
> Droyne).
>
> > > The CriZhos would be more intimately concerned the farther they were
> > > Coreward and would also have increasingly divergent interests from
> the
> > > Consulate, starting with their own prosperity & security.
> >
> > As well as prejudice/judgement they might receive when the "Real Zho"
> > resupply/commo missions come through.
>
> Definitely. The unknown naturally lends itself to uncertainty, if not
> suspicion (and thence paranoia) and even nominally rational people using
> a scientific method can come to mistaken conclusions based on faulty
> premises & make placebo responses.
>
> Especially when things go south, one can Zhos who wouldn't exactly be
> eager to maje resupply runs into affected areas since they may not be
> allowed back or would be under suspicion if not scrutiny even if they
> were cleared by the authorities.
>
>
use in TNE, which is life recapitulating fiction, where something "known"
in the game becomes something "secret" in the game, although hidden in
plain sight.
My advice to you and Derek is keep your brains pure the way they are and
let the mystery remain a mystery. Too much knowledge about the (in-game
fiction) "truth" makes it deterministic and takes away the fun. Or, to put
it in terms of quantum theory, it's much more fun to think that an electon
can be in an infinite number of places than to try measure it and collapse
the probability wave into simple mundane facts.
> Iâm w/ DS on this...
> WTF..???
>
> Might have some pretty ugly implications for some PBEMâs underway, right
> now...(one of which is probably one of the LONGEST running Trav PBEM
> gameâs, to date...8-)....
>
> C/L
>
> From: DEREK STANLEY
> Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2014 3:40 PM
> To:
> Subject: [Traveller_TNE] The Ancients
>
>
>
> I've got to admit to being completely in the dark here. None of my old
> campaigns had anything to do with the ancients and my GM at the time had
> all the material.
>
> I know that the droyne are tied in with the ancients. I know grandfather
> sealed himself off in a pocket universe. I know that they seeded human
> life about the cosmos and uplifted the Vargr. Something happened and they
> went away.
>
> That's honestly about what I know.
>
> Derek Stanley
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Mar 30, 2014, at 3:03 PM, Master Uxi <> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> - Sent from my SM-N900T
> On Mar 30, 2014 1:59 PM, <> wrote:
>
> >
> > > The Zho version of "going native" would include going beyond their
> own
> > > norms if not beyond what the Thought Police could be able to correct
> (the
> > > "supercharged") or even understand (the "possessed").
> > >
> > > At its simplest though, yeah. These descendents could easily obtain
> their
> > > own agenda which diverges from that of the Consulate and their
> forebears &
> > > would have every inclination to resist the Thought Police or the
> even
> > > nominal subservience and a classic struggle for independence
> >
> > I like that because it gets at the semi-artificial/arbitrary notion of
> > "race" as less physical/genetic than behavioral, and that behavioral
> > differences can cause prejudices even worse than physical differences.
>
> And yet could reinforce them at the same time if it's only certain
> subset of Zhos. Knowing that those who go beyond a certain point are...
> affected somehow, they might be inclined to send those other than their
> best & brightest, who would be "manning the walls," as it were. Until
> the walls bypass them. Thus would have probably happened a couple times
> before they figured out that the wave was moving towards the Consulate
> and one could almost feel the collective face palm and hindsight and/or
> guilt towards how they might have treated those who would have been
> subject to exile/quarantine/invasive examination by the Thought Police
> even when not noticeably affected just because they passed certain
> moving goalposts.
>
> I could see no Dlolprikls or being risked or only Dleqiats or Qiknavran
> (or subsets of) for ex. They were supposedly strictly meritocrious but
> humans have a way for forming cliques regardless... even when otherwise
> know better, they could be falsely premised on subjective qualities.
>
> > > Indeed. The goal was always to get to the Core eventually, though
> > > originally set to a conservative pace.
> >
> > Or not so much the Core per se, but whatever it is about "The Core"
> that
> > made the original Ancient device point them that way, which presumably
> is
> > not something invented by Yaskoydray, but something to which
> Yaskoydray
> > was also subject, and which therefore interested him.
>
> Indeed. Possibly hinting at whatever the Children & Grandchildren were
> doing that caused Grandfather to react so extremely, as well (always
> have visions of them interfering in either abonimable ways... or perhaps
> refusing to abide the abominable things Yaskoydray was doing. The entire
> Ancient's Final War lends itself to some grand implications... Though
> could easily be as trivial as that which split the Third Imperium, if
> not seen as bizarrely so by human standards, though perhaps not to
> Droyne).
>
> > > The CriZhos would be more intimately concerned the farther they were
> > > Coreward and would also have increasingly divergent interests from
> the
> > > Consulate, starting with their own prosperity & security.
> >
> > As well as prejudice/judgement they might receive when the "Real Zho"
> > resupply/commo missions come through.
>
> Definitely. The unknown naturally lends itself to uncertainty, if not
> suspicion (and thence paranoia) and even nominally rational people using
> a scientific method can come to mistaken conclusions based on faulty
> premises & make placebo responses.
>
> Especially when things go south, one can Zhos who wouldn't exactly be
> eager to maje resupply runs into affected areas since they may not be
> allowed back or would be under suspicion if not scrutiny even if they
> were cleared by the authorities.
>
>