Sandman wasn't on a ship in Vampire Fleets but on one of the Promise
computer systems in the city/starport. The Midu the PCs start on is "the
Ship" and was said to have been damaged by a Puppeteer and is
schitzo/damaged.
- Sent from my SM-N900T
On Mar 24, 2014 2:27 PM, <> wrote:
>
>
> Mike--
>
> By the way, in my failed search over the weekend to find what kind of ship
> Sandman was (I want to say Midu Agashaam, but would prefer to be accurate
> than self-indulgent) I came across the 2004 COTI "Ask Dave." I saw that
> "daryen" was one of the guys asking questions, and in looking at my reply,
> was concerned that I had treated you brusquely. I am sorry for treating
> you that way. Not as excuse, but explanation, there were four or five of
> those, "why are you keeping this from us?" questions and they were wearing
> me out. Also, all of those anonymous handles made it difficult to tell who
> were the people who would push me into traffic if given the chance, and
> who were the TNE fans.
>
> Similarly, it is possible at that time that you were irritated with me,
> from the POV that you had hoped to hear what I had in mind, then you heard
> the "Dave swore us all to secrecy" thing, so were understandably miffed.
> You probably saw my note a few weeks back saying, "by the way, that was
> never true," but back in 2004 it was still to early and I was not going to
> blow anyone's cover, and having to "take a hit for the team" would not
> have improved my mood.
>
> In looking over the document I was surprised by all that I laid out, some
> of it I had completely forgotten that I had. Also surprised at how
> forthcoming I was in the face of what I clearly perceived as a hostile,
> anonymous audience, and which it to a considerable extent was (definitely
> anonymous). At the time I didn't get someone's "Are you Aramis?" joke, but
> I do now.
>
> Anyway, if I did treat you roughly back then, you didn't let it get in the
> way of getting along over here, and I appreciate that.
>
> > The reason for the difference is that the "Caddocourt" one came from my
> > iPad, and the "Mike West" one came from my desktop (like this one). And,
> > yes, I am "daryen" on both Mongoose and CotI, though I have not
> frequented
> > either board much recently.
> >
> >
> >
> > On the "wild Hivers", it was the discoverers (presumably humans) that
> > would
> > be in for the rude shock. I toyed with the idea of one survivor living
> > long
> > enough to discover their progeny and attempting a ridiculous manipulation
> > from shear boredom, or having all of the survivors die off before hand,
> > meaning the "wild Hivers" would completely develop on their own. Either
> > way,
> > they would be low-tech, self-sufficient, and *not* timid. Instead, they
> > would be "civilized savages" that not only were not cowards, but actively
> > engaged in conflict when deemed necessary.
> >
> >
> >
> > Or, just to be truly divergent, the long-lived survivor was an Ithklur
> > guard, not a Hiver. So, this Ithklur intentionally taught his young
> > charges
> > the Ithklur culture, not the Hiver culture. He should be able to live
> long
> > enough to train up a half-dozen or so batches of "wild Hivers" before he
> > died somehow. (Preferably in some sacrificial way in order to further
> > inspire his charges in the ways of combat!) They would be his legacy: a
> > giant metaphorical middle finger back to the Hivers.
> >
> >
> >
> > I also figure that once the Hivers found about it, they would be on a
> > single-minded mission to sterilize the world before the "wild Hivers"
> ever
> > left the planet. They would be both horrified at how divergent the "wild
> > Hivers" are from the norm and also fundamentally ashamed that any Hivers
> > were successfully manipulated by their insane subjects. The humans would
> > end
> > up having to defend them from possible Hiver aggression. The Ithklur
> would
> > probably laugh their butts off, if they ever found out about it. I could
> > even see the Ithklur refusing to fight the "wild Hivers", as "wild
> Hivers"
> > are still Hivers, and the Ithklur never fight the Hivers .
> >
> >
> >
> > It was/is a fun thought exercise, but it still takes a lot of more effort
> > to
> > pick the world, set up the timeline, fit it into the history, then write
> > it
> > all down. I do need to do it, though.
> >
> >
> >
> > Mike West
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: [
> ]
> > On Behalf Of
> > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2014 12:38 AM
> > To:
> > Subject: RE: [Traveller_TNE] Dawn League naivete, or, sorry for all the
> > posts but...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Mike--
> >
> > Interesting. Even though both posts came from the same account
> > (), the earlier one put the alias "Caddocourt" in
> the
> > "From" column, but this most recent one put "Mike West."
> >
> > Ah, the secret lives of electrons.
> >
> > I assume that's you as daryen over on the Mongoose lists. I was trying to
> > remember what kind of ship was Sandman in Vampire Fleets, and Googling it
> > took me all over the place. Never did find out what type ship it was,
> > either. Don't remember what you said, all those aliases blur together. I
> > did recognize Gypsy Comet as Jim Kundert, though.
> >
> > I've read some reviews of RSB that slam me for the small point size. In
> > terms of "pretty presentation" vs. "more information," I never see any
> > contest. Do you buy books for information, or for some meaningless
> > experience that is easy on your eyes? That's what I thought. I wasn't
> > allowed to up the page count, so that's what I ended up doing. Ideally,
> we
> > would have upped the page count and increased the price to cover it.
> > Probably the ordering solicitations had already gone out so we were
> locked
> > in at a guaranteed price.
> >
> > Thanks again for the RSB compliments, I truly appreciate them. You
> > mentioned some of those before, and the reason you know that I am not
> > scolding you for repeating yourself is because I am the God of Repeating
> > Himself. Frank used to get on me sometimes that I was "too subtle." Odd
> > that I could be both that and also have a writing style that torqued off
> > so many people. I figure I'm about as subtle as a hammer, but it probably
> > also depended on what voice I was trying to write in.
> >
> > I saw a review of RSB on Amazon that loved the poem in there about
> keeping
> > the flame, said it was very evocative, and set the feel of the setting
> > very well. Whenever I did stuff like that I felt some people might hate
> > the departure from the traditional Traveller Joe Friday voice, but I also
> > felt that we're trying to write about a future world with real people in
> > it, and people in that world would do things like wrote poetry, so I gave
> > it a try. I'm reminded of P.T. Barnum and how they extended that thought
> > at MST3K: "We don't worry about who will get the joke, we know the right
> > people will get the joke." I look at lots of stuff I did, from TNE to
> > Phase Line Smash, and I see that there are lots of people who really "get
> > it," and others who don't. Would I trade that for a product that would
> > make 100% of people go, "meh?" Someone could make the point, and I would
> > take it seriously, that if my writing in a different way could have made
> > TNE more successful and saved GDW then I should have. Well, I'm not sure
> > what that way is, in general one can only do what one can in the moment
> > with the wits one has, and that's past changing anyway.
> >
> > I assume, for example, that part of the reason MJD was taken with TNE was
> > the way it was written. Water several times over the dam, anyway.
> >
> > Also, I like the wild Hiver idea as well. One question, though: when you
> > say, "when they were found a century later it was quite a shock," do you
> > mean by other Hivers, or humans? Also, and I think this is what you were
> > getting at, did the larvae grow up without adult Hivers to teach them
> > Hiver culture, i.e., the adults died or went away and the larval Hivers
> > evolved their own new Hiver society? If so, what did you have in mind?
> >
> >> Yes that was me. Depending on the forum or list, I am called either
> >>
> >> "daryen", "caddocourt", or "Mike West". I dunno how exactly that
> >>
> >> "caddocourt" gets in there, but, whatever.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I worked with Martin on the 1248 stuff, particularly on the Spinward
> >>
> >> States. He even let me help direct what happened there. (No spoilers
> >>
> >> here.) It was pretty cool.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> In order to work on the Spinward States, I had to study the Regency
> >>
> >> Source Book thoroughly. The more I read it, the more impressed I
> >>
> >> became. Not only did you pack in the information (to the point where
> >>
> >> some pages had reduced font sizes to make it fit!), but you packed
> >>
> >> in a whole lot of stuff *between* the lines. That was impressive. I
> >>
> >> know I misread some of that "between the lines" stuff, but even so
> >>
> >> the fact that it was there to be read (or misread) was really
> > impressive.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> My favorite "between the lines" was Norris and his personal life. It
> >>
> >> is explicitly stated that he "never found love", but, in fact, most
> > definitely
> >>
> >> did! I am still trying to learn how to write things that well.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> In addition, you set up a lot of loose threads that I had fun drawing
> >>
> >> out and expanding. In particular, I had fun taking the Kiskii incident
> >>
> >> and turning that ultimate tragedy into a long term benefit for the
> > Regency.
> >>
> >> Trin did not die in vain!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Thank you for making a book that I had to read over and over worth
> >>
> >> the effort to do so.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Mike West
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From:
> > []
> >> On Behalf Of
> >> Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2014 5:38 PM
> >> To:
> >> Subject: Re: [Traveller_TNE] Dawn League naivete, or, sorry for all the
> > posts but...
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Caddocourt--
> >>
> >> (I'm doing really well on the whole, "that's the last of me for today"
> > thing.)
> >>
> >> I apologize, but it's hard for me to keep names straight over the long
> > periods of time on this list with e-mail addresses that don't
> > necessarily
> >> show them (mine doesn't either). Are you they guy who threw himself in
> > front of me saying, "Dave don't listen, you don't want to hear this"?
> > That
> >> was very considerate of you, and I recall it fondly.
> >>
> >>> "I have always wanted to finish them and put them out there, but just
> >> never got the chance."
> >>
> >> I would say, "my former life in a nutshell," but that would be
> > incomplete.
> >> To make it complete, I have to add, "my ex-wife remarried and they live
> > across the street from Marc Miller." THAT completes my former life in a
> > nutshell.
> >>
> >> And speaking of, "just never got the chance" if I were as smart as I
> > like
> >> to believe I am, after all this time I would admit that none of that TNE
> > stuff is ever going to happen, erase those brain cells, and use them for
> > something else. I just can't bring myself to do it. I'm just too fond of
> > all of the little unwritten stories.
> >>
> >>> Back when I did the Spinward States sourcebook for 1248, I had
> >> desperately
> >>> want to make an otherwise barren garden world the surprise home of some
> >> mutant Hivers. They would have been the result of the crash of a wide
> > ranging Embassy ship that got stranded by the Civil War. The survivors,
> > not understanding either the ecology of the world they were on or the
> > interstellar situation just waited for rescue. By the time reality set
> > in,
> >>> they were already doomed, but they had already made lots of
> >> 'handshaking'.
> >>> With no (or not effective enough) predators on the world, the 'babies'
> >> went on to run wild. The survivors never knew what they had unleashed.
> >>> And when these 'wild Hivers' we're found over a century later, it was
> >> quit
> >>> he shock.
> >>> Unfortunately, I just couldn't get them to fit in, so left them out. I
> >> have always wanted to finish them and put them out there, but just never
> > got the chance.
> >>> Sent from my iPad
> >>>> On Mar 23, 2014, at 4:22 PM, Master Uxi <> wrote:
> > I did have an idea for a colony of Hivers that were evangelized and
> > formed human style nuclear-esque families near Turin.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
computer systems in the city/starport. The Midu the PCs start on is "the
Ship" and was said to have been damaged by a Puppeteer and is
schitzo/damaged.
- Sent from my SM-N900T
On Mar 24, 2014 2:27 PM, <> wrote:
>
>
> Mike--
>
> By the way, in my failed search over the weekend to find what kind of ship
> Sandman was (I want to say Midu Agashaam, but would prefer to be accurate
> than self-indulgent) I came across the 2004 COTI "Ask Dave." I saw that
> "daryen" was one of the guys asking questions, and in looking at my reply,
> was concerned that I had treated you brusquely. I am sorry for treating
> you that way. Not as excuse, but explanation, there were four or five of
> those, "why are you keeping this from us?" questions and they were wearing
> me out. Also, all of those anonymous handles made it difficult to tell who
> were the people who would push me into traffic if given the chance, and
> who were the TNE fans.
>
> Similarly, it is possible at that time that you were irritated with me,
> from the POV that you had hoped to hear what I had in mind, then you heard
> the "Dave swore us all to secrecy" thing, so were understandably miffed.
> You probably saw my note a few weeks back saying, "by the way, that was
> never true," but back in 2004 it was still to early and I was not going to
> blow anyone's cover, and having to "take a hit for the team" would not
> have improved my mood.
>
> In looking over the document I was surprised by all that I laid out, some
> of it I had completely forgotten that I had. Also surprised at how
> forthcoming I was in the face of what I clearly perceived as a hostile,
> anonymous audience, and which it to a considerable extent was (definitely
> anonymous). At the time I didn't get someone's "Are you Aramis?" joke, but
> I do now.
>
> Anyway, if I did treat you roughly back then, you didn't let it get in the
> way of getting along over here, and I appreciate that.
>
> > The reason for the difference is that the "Caddocourt" one came from my
> > iPad, and the "Mike West" one came from my desktop (like this one). And,
> > yes, I am "daryen" on both Mongoose and CotI, though I have not
> frequented
> > either board much recently.
> >
> >
> >
> > On the "wild Hivers", it was the discoverers (presumably humans) that
> > would
> > be in for the rude shock. I toyed with the idea of one survivor living
> > long
> > enough to discover their progeny and attempting a ridiculous manipulation
> > from shear boredom, or having all of the survivors die off before hand,
> > meaning the "wild Hivers" would completely develop on their own. Either
> > way,
> > they would be low-tech, self-sufficient, and *not* timid. Instead, they
> > would be "civilized savages" that not only were not cowards, but actively
> > engaged in conflict when deemed necessary.
> >
> >
> >
> > Or, just to be truly divergent, the long-lived survivor was an Ithklur
> > guard, not a Hiver. So, this Ithklur intentionally taught his young
> > charges
> > the Ithklur culture, not the Hiver culture. He should be able to live
> long
> > enough to train up a half-dozen or so batches of "wild Hivers" before he
> > died somehow. (Preferably in some sacrificial way in order to further
> > inspire his charges in the ways of combat!) They would be his legacy: a
> > giant metaphorical middle finger back to the Hivers.
> >
> >
> >
> > I also figure that once the Hivers found about it, they would be on a
> > single-minded mission to sterilize the world before the "wild Hivers"
> ever
> > left the planet. They would be both horrified at how divergent the "wild
> > Hivers" are from the norm and also fundamentally ashamed that any Hivers
> > were successfully manipulated by their insane subjects. The humans would
> > end
> > up having to defend them from possible Hiver aggression. The Ithklur
> would
> > probably laugh their butts off, if they ever found out about it. I could
> > even see the Ithklur refusing to fight the "wild Hivers", as "wild
> Hivers"
> > are still Hivers, and the Ithklur never fight the Hivers .
> >
> >
> >
> > It was/is a fun thought exercise, but it still takes a lot of more effort
> > to
> > pick the world, set up the timeline, fit it into the history, then write
> > it
> > all down. I do need to do it, though.
> >
> >
> >
> > Mike West
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: [
> ]
> > On Behalf Of
> > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2014 12:38 AM
> > To:
> > Subject: RE: [Traveller_TNE] Dawn League naivete, or, sorry for all the
> > posts but...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Mike--
> >
> > Interesting. Even though both posts came from the same account
> > (), the earlier one put the alias "Caddocourt" in
> the
> > "From" column, but this most recent one put "Mike West."
> >
> > Ah, the secret lives of electrons.
> >
> > I assume that's you as daryen over on the Mongoose lists. I was trying to
> > remember what kind of ship was Sandman in Vampire Fleets, and Googling it
> > took me all over the place. Never did find out what type ship it was,
> > either. Don't remember what you said, all those aliases blur together. I
> > did recognize Gypsy Comet as Jim Kundert, though.
> >
> > I've read some reviews of RSB that slam me for the small point size. In
> > terms of "pretty presentation" vs. "more information," I never see any
> > contest. Do you buy books for information, or for some meaningless
> > experience that is easy on your eyes? That's what I thought. I wasn't
> > allowed to up the page count, so that's what I ended up doing. Ideally,
> we
> > would have upped the page count and increased the price to cover it.
> > Probably the ordering solicitations had already gone out so we were
> locked
> > in at a guaranteed price.
> >
> > Thanks again for the RSB compliments, I truly appreciate them. You
> > mentioned some of those before, and the reason you know that I am not
> > scolding you for repeating yourself is because I am the God of Repeating
> > Himself. Frank used to get on me sometimes that I was "too subtle." Odd
> > that I could be both that and also have a writing style that torqued off
> > so many people. I figure I'm about as subtle as a hammer, but it probably
> > also depended on what voice I was trying to write in.
> >
> > I saw a review of RSB on Amazon that loved the poem in there about
> keeping
> > the flame, said it was very evocative, and set the feel of the setting
> > very well. Whenever I did stuff like that I felt some people might hate
> > the departure from the traditional Traveller Joe Friday voice, but I also
> > felt that we're trying to write about a future world with real people in
> > it, and people in that world would do things like wrote poetry, so I gave
> > it a try. I'm reminded of P.T. Barnum and how they extended that thought
> > at MST3K: "We don't worry about who will get the joke, we know the right
> > people will get the joke." I look at lots of stuff I did, from TNE to
> > Phase Line Smash, and I see that there are lots of people who really "get
> > it," and others who don't. Would I trade that for a product that would
> > make 100% of people go, "meh?" Someone could make the point, and I would
> > take it seriously, that if my writing in a different way could have made
> > TNE more successful and saved GDW then I should have. Well, I'm not sure
> > what that way is, in general one can only do what one can in the moment
> > with the wits one has, and that's past changing anyway.
> >
> > I assume, for example, that part of the reason MJD was taken with TNE was
> > the way it was written. Water several times over the dam, anyway.
> >
> > Also, I like the wild Hiver idea as well. One question, though: when you
> > say, "when they were found a century later it was quite a shock," do you
> > mean by other Hivers, or humans? Also, and I think this is what you were
> > getting at, did the larvae grow up without adult Hivers to teach them
> > Hiver culture, i.e., the adults died or went away and the larval Hivers
> > evolved their own new Hiver society? If so, what did you have in mind?
> >
> >> Yes that was me. Depending on the forum or list, I am called either
> >>
> >> "daryen", "caddocourt", or "Mike West". I dunno how exactly that
> >>
> >> "caddocourt" gets in there, but, whatever.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I worked with Martin on the 1248 stuff, particularly on the Spinward
> >>
> >> States. He even let me help direct what happened there. (No spoilers
> >>
> >> here.) It was pretty cool.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> In order to work on the Spinward States, I had to study the Regency
> >>
> >> Source Book thoroughly. The more I read it, the more impressed I
> >>
> >> became. Not only did you pack in the information (to the point where
> >>
> >> some pages had reduced font sizes to make it fit!), but you packed
> >>
> >> in a whole lot of stuff *between* the lines. That was impressive. I
> >>
> >> know I misread some of that "between the lines" stuff, but even so
> >>
> >> the fact that it was there to be read (or misread) was really
> > impressive.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> My favorite "between the lines" was Norris and his personal life. It
> >>
> >> is explicitly stated that he "never found love", but, in fact, most
> > definitely
> >>
> >> did! I am still trying to learn how to write things that well.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> In addition, you set up a lot of loose threads that I had fun drawing
> >>
> >> out and expanding. In particular, I had fun taking the Kiskii incident
> >>
> >> and turning that ultimate tragedy into a long term benefit for the
> > Regency.
> >>
> >> Trin did not die in vain!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Thank you for making a book that I had to read over and over worth
> >>
> >> the effort to do so.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Mike West
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From:
> > []
> >> On Behalf Of
> >> Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2014 5:38 PM
> >> To:
> >> Subject: Re: [Traveller_TNE] Dawn League naivete, or, sorry for all the
> > posts but...
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Caddocourt--
> >>
> >> (I'm doing really well on the whole, "that's the last of me for today"
> > thing.)
> >>
> >> I apologize, but it's hard for me to keep names straight over the long
> > periods of time on this list with e-mail addresses that don't
> > necessarily
> >> show them (mine doesn't either). Are you they guy who threw himself in
> > front of me saying, "Dave don't listen, you don't want to hear this"?
> > That
> >> was very considerate of you, and I recall it fondly.
> >>
> >>> "I have always wanted to finish them and put them out there, but just
> >> never got the chance."
> >>
> >> I would say, "my former life in a nutshell," but that would be
> > incomplete.
> >> To make it complete, I have to add, "my ex-wife remarried and they live
> > across the street from Marc Miller." THAT completes my former life in a
> > nutshell.
> >>
> >> And speaking of, "just never got the chance" if I were as smart as I
> > like
> >> to believe I am, after all this time I would admit that none of that TNE
> > stuff is ever going to happen, erase those brain cells, and use them for
> > something else. I just can't bring myself to do it. I'm just too fond of
> > all of the little unwritten stories.
> >>
> >>> Back when I did the Spinward States sourcebook for 1248, I had
> >> desperately
> >>> want to make an otherwise barren garden world the surprise home of some
> >> mutant Hivers. They would have been the result of the crash of a wide
> > ranging Embassy ship that got stranded by the Civil War. The survivors,
> > not understanding either the ecology of the world they were on or the
> > interstellar situation just waited for rescue. By the time reality set
> > in,
> >>> they were already doomed, but they had already made lots of
> >> 'handshaking'.
> >>> With no (or not effective enough) predators on the world, the 'babies'
> >> went on to run wild. The survivors never knew what they had unleashed.
> >>> And when these 'wild Hivers' we're found over a century later, it was
> >> quit
> >>> he shock.
> >>> Unfortunately, I just couldn't get them to fit in, so left them out. I
> >> have always wanted to finish them and put them out there, but just never
> > got the chance.
> >>> Sent from my iPad
> >>>> On Mar 23, 2014, at 4:22 PM, Master Uxi <> wrote:
> > I did have an idea for a colony of Hivers that were evangelized and
> > formed human style nuclear-esque families near Turin.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>