Hi all,
I've got a campaign where the characters have stumbled upon the
wreckage of Foghoks class heavy cruiser (Rebellion Sourcebook,
pg 79). They might have to rummage through it for salvage in order
to make repairs on their ship (If they're reading this, it
shouldn't come across as a spoiler). I've thought about making
deckplans for it (rather than just winging it), but have never
tried to make them for a ship anywhere near this large (10,000
tons!). Any suggestions to the number of decks or anything else?
Oh yeah, I know that they really don't do ladders, preferring
ramps and stairs instead.
Of course, if someone has already gone down this route, let me
know that as well.
\_/
DED
TNE @ Yahoo ml Admin
Thread: Foghoks class heavy cruiser
7 posts.
If in your plan there is an area of
particular interest, make a decision for that with a mind
for minimal expansion. So grid out the choice spots and
hand wave the rest. That's what I did with an abandoned
space station and it went over very well.
Hi all,
I've got a campaign where the characters have stumbled upon the wreckage of Foghoks class heavy cruiser (Rebellion Sourcebook, pg 79). They might have to rummage through it for salvage in order to make repairs on their ship (If they're reading this, it shouldn't come across as a spoiler). I've thought about making deckplans for it (rather than just winging it), but have never tried to make them for a ship anywhere near this large (10,000 tons!). Any suggestions to the number of decks or anything else? Oh yeah, I know that they really don't do ladders, preferring ramps and stairs instead.
Of course, if someone has already gone down this route, let me know that as well.
\_/
DED
TNE @ Yahoo ml Admin
First caveat: the ship as published is a mess. The Errata is required.
The Foghoks is over half fuel and cargo, at about 5,300
tons out of the 10,000, so already you're down to a King
Richard for detailed size. Missile magazine is another 150
tons or so.
-Eight bays take another chunk out of that, though at
TL11 Rating 7, they are only 50 ton bays. Still, that's
another 400 tons that become pretty simple.
-151 Staterooms. Another 604 tons.
-Bridge size is not straightforward in MT and TNE,
but the USP lists 13 Bridge Crew and 20 Command Crew. I
think you can assume at least 30 tons of "walk around"
Bridge, and maybe more. Not all of those Command crew
are Bridge dressing...
-Of the 3,600 tons left, around 1,166 are just the
Power Plant. Jump Drive is another 300 tons, and the
Maneuver Drive is 1,100 tons.
-The two shuttles are another 200 or so total.
-The last 600 odd tons is incidentals and no-maps
like Life Support and gravity. Oh, and airlocks, which
your gang WILL want to know about.
So more than half of the ship is fuel and cargo, and
more than half of the rest is drives and bays. More
than a third of what's left after that is staterooms.
As a 10k Needle/Wedge under MT, the ship will be
between 160 (wedge) and 192 (Needle) meters in length
under TNE design terms. That would normally mean
decks between 80 and 96 TNE grid in length. BUT. The
ship has no Inertial Compensation. It becomes either
an old school space opera design with everyone
strapped in, or at least some of the ship is stacked
instead. And the ship is capable of 4G...
In TNE context, this thing was a deathtrap well
before Virus hit it.
I'd say the ship is heavily segmented, built to
handle changing gravity and still provide crew access,
if not comfort. Weird "grav lock" stairways, ladders
on t! he ceilings, swiveling bunks. No long grav pong
hallways, though.
Wow! Thanks man! This is immensely helpful. Really puts it into perspective.
I overlooked the lack of inertial compensators. That's nuts!
Taking another look at the other ships, I see that a lot of them
went without them, but they're listed as either 1 or 2G.
One point of clarification: You say the ship is capable of 4G. I'm
assuming that's part of the errata as the book has it rated at 1G.
I hadn't gotten around to plugging the numbers in to reverse
engineer the hit points to actual tonnage yet to confirm that, but
the Aek Naz, which is three times the size, has the same
maneuver drive HP and also 1G. Or maybe it's wrong too. I should
probably look to see if I've got the MT errata somewhere around
here.
Thanks again!
\_/
DED
TNE @ Yahoo ml Admin
On 8/17/2018 11:19 AM, gypsycomet
[Traveller_TNE] wrote:
First caveat: the ship as published is a mess. The Errata is required.
The Foghoks is over half fuel and cargo, at about 5,300 tons out of the 10,000, so already you're down to a King Richard for detailed size. Missile magazine is another 150 tons or so.-Eight bays take another chunk out of that, though at TL11 Rating 7, they are only 50 ton bays. Still, that's another 400 tons that become pretty simple.-151 Staterooms. Another 604 tons.-Bridge size is not straightforward in MT and TNE, but the USP lists 13 Bridge Crew and 20 Command Crew. I think you can assume at least 30 tons of "walk around" Bridge, and maybe more. Not all of those Command crew are Bridge dressing...-Of the 3,600 tons left, around 1,166 are just the Power Plant. Jump Drive is another 300 tons, and the Maneuver Drive is 1,100 tons.-The two shuttles are another 200 or so total.-The last 600 odd tons is incidentals and no-maps like Life Support and gravity. Oh, and airlocks, which your gang WILL want to know about.
So more than half of the ship is fuel and cargo, and more than half of the rest is drives and bays. More than a third of what's left after that is staterooms.
As a 10k Needle/Wedge under MT, the ship will be between 160 (wedge) and 192 (Needle) meters in length under TNE design terms. That would normally mean decks between 80 and 96 TNE grid in length. BUT. The ship has no Inertial Compensation. It becomes either an old school space opera design with everyone strapped in, or at least some of the ship is stacked instead. And the ship is capable of 4G...
In TNE context, this thing was a deathtrap well before Virus hit it.
I'd say the ship is heavily segmented, built to handle changing gravity and still provide crew access, if not comfort. Weird "grav lock" stairways, ladders on t! he ceilings, swiveling bunks. No long grav pong hallways, though.
If you are looking for map software to make the map I can recommend Dungeonographer its a free application that will do a square based layout that you could import an image outline into and super impose over/around the tile layout. I use it for making d&d dungeons and is fairly quick and easy. The software is by a company called Inkwell Ideas. If you want to use the software and need help with it let me know and we can chat about it.
On another note I had a similar problem recently with a traveler game I started where a center point for the beginning was a space station constructed inside a hollowed out asteroid that measured 50km long by 3km wide. I had a GM choice of trying to build a map for this monster or simply outline major areas and points of interest simply because of its immense size and there being about 500,000 people living/working on it and the vast amount of service tunnels I wanted to be present I chose to simply make a high level outlive of the station.
Essential I tackle the large scale things by breaking the large play space down into area I anticipate will be of insterest and wing the rest of it. Unless your player's are highly visually oriented and you feel your cheating the players by not making maps I would highly suggest this approach simply do to the work load involved.
I can walk through my design process of how I broke down my scenario if you would like. I don't want to write a wall of text that everyone on the group may not be interested in, unless folks are. :)
Wow! Thanks man! This is immensely helpful. Really puts it into perspective.
I overlooked the lack of inertial compensators. That's nuts! Taking another look at the other ships, I see that a lot of them went without them, but they're listed as either 1 or 2G.
One point of clarification: You say the ship is capable of 4G. I'm assuming that's part of the errata as the book has it rated at 1G. I hadn't gotten around to plugging the numbers in to reverse engineer the hit points to actual tonnage yet to confirm that, but the Aek Naz, which is three times the size, has the same maneuver drive HP and also 1G. Or maybe it's wrong too. I should probably look to see if I've got the MT errata somewhere around here.
Thanks again!
\_/
DED
TNE @ Yahoo ml Admin
On 8/17/2018 11:19 AM, gypsycomet [Traveller_TNE] wrote:
First caveat: the ship as published is a mess. The Errata is required.
The Foghoks is over half fuel and cargo, at about 5,300 tons out of the 10,000, so already you're down to a King Richard for detailed size. Missile magazine is another 150 tons or so.-Eight bays take another chunk out of that, though at TL11 Rating 7, they are only 50 ton bays. Still, that's another 400 tons that become pretty simple.-151 Staterooms. Another 604 tons.-Bridge size is not straightforward in MT and TNE, but the USP lists 13 Bridge Crew and 20 Command Crew. I think you can assume at least 30 tons of "walk around" Bridge, and maybe more. Not all of those Command crew are Bridge dressing...-Of the 3,600 tons left, around 1,166 are just the Power Plant. Jump Drive is another 300 tons, and the Maneuver Drive is 1,100 tons.-The two shuttles are another 200 or so total.-The last 600 odd tons is incidentals and no-maps like Life Support and gravity. Oh, and airlocks, which your gang WILL want to know about.
So more than half of the ship is fuel and cargo, and more than half of the rest is drives and bays. More than a third of what's left after that is staterooms.
As a 10k Needle/Wedge under MT, the ship will be between 160 (wedge) and 192 (Needle) meters in length under TNE design terms. That would normally mean decks between 80 and 96 TNE grid in length. BUT. The ship has no Inertial Compensation. It becomes either an old school space opera design with everyone strapped in, or at least some of the ship is stacked instead. And the ship is capable of 4G...
In TNE context, this thing was a deathtrap well before Virus hit it.
I'd say the ship is heavily segmented, built to handle changing gravity and still provide crew access, if not comfort. Weird "grav lock" stairways, ladders on t! he ceilings, swiveling bunks. No long grav pong hallways, though.
If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever happened to you would have been deserved.
Hi John,
Thanks for the link. I'll check it out.
I'm old enough to have constructed dungeons and starships with
pencil and graph paper, so I'm no stranger to providing details on
small scale. For large constructs (space stations, cities, etc.),
I've done general descriptions to players with maybe a rough
"30,000 ft level" sketch of general areas for my use (my biggest
problem is always "How much room does that thingee take?" Thanks
again to GypsyComet for putting things in perspective earlier).
Since all my campaigns went PBEM, I try to write up as many
specifics as the situation requires, but maps are always better.
They just take so much more time to make.
It took me a while to go digital with drafting. I tried
Cosmographer (from ProFantasy), an add-on for Campaign
Cartographer 3+ (CC), to make starships, but it was immensely
frustrating. I tried the tutorials, but couldn't stray from the
instructions to make anything that worked for my needs (multi-deck
starships, space stations, etc). Eventually, I sold my license to a fellow
Traveller player.
I tried using 123D Design to make a model of the Foghoks, but I
never got the hang of it.
After a year, I decided to try digital again, but this time I
chose a different direction. I'd content myself with my collection
of deckplans and focus on world maps. My sketching seemed too
simplistic after all these decades, my coastline contours were
subject to repetitiveness, and they lacked realism. I used Fractal
Terrains 3, which ports nicely with CC. Happy with my relative
success there, I've started using City Designer 3 (another add
on), and at some point I'll give their Dungeon Designer 3 a shot.
But obviously I still had to figure out if I could do more than
just general descriptions for the Foghoks.
Starship as dungeon, although maybe odd at first, does make a
certain kind of sense.
I like the idea of importing the image outline and superimposing
it over a grid layout.
I will definitely download Dungeonographer and give it a shot.
I'll contact you offlist should it prove not to be idiot proof.
But if there's interest on the list, other people should speak up.
=)
\_/
DED
TNE @ Yahoo ml Admin
On 8/17/2018 5:48 PM, John Potter
[Traveller_TNE] wrote:
If you are looking for map software to make the map I can recommend Dungeonographer its a free application that will do a square based layout that you could import an image outline into and super impose over/around the tile layout. I use it for making d&d dungeons and is fairly quick and easy. The software is by a company called Inkwell Ideas. If you want to use the software and need help with it let me know and we can chat about it.
On another note I had a similar problem recently with a traveler game I started where a center point for the beginning was a space station constructed inside a hollowed out asteroid that measured 50km long by 3km wide. I had a GM choice of trying to build a map for this monster or simply outline major areas and points of interest simply because of its immense size and there being about 500,000 people living/working on it and the vast amount of service tunnels I wanted to be present I chose to simply make a high level outlive of the station.
Essential I tackle the large scale things by breaking the large play space down into area I anticipate will be of insterest and wing the rest of it. Unless your player's are highly visually oriented and you feel your cheating the players by not making maps I would highly suggest this approach simply do to the work load involved.
I can walk through my design process of how I broke down my scenario if you would like. I don't want to write a wall of text that everyone on the group may not be interested in, unless folks are. :)
On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 11:16 AM DED [Traveller_TNE] wrote:
Wow! Thanks man! This is immensely helpful. Really puts it into perspective.
I overlooked the lack of inertial compensators. That's nuts! Taking another look at the other ships, I see that a lot of them went without them, but they're listed as either 1 or 2G.
One point of clarification: You say the ship is capable of 4G. I'm assuming that's part of the errata as the book has it rated at 1G. I hadn't gotten around to plugging the numbers in to reverse engineer the hit points to actual tonnage yet to confirm that, but the Aek Naz, which is three times the size, has the same maneuver drive HP and also 1G. Or maybe it's wrong too. I should probably look to see if I've got the MT errata somewhere around here.
Thanks again!
\_/
DED
TNE @ Yahoo ml Admin
On 8/17/2018 11:19 AM, gypsycomet [Traveller_TNE] wrote:
First caveat: the ship as published is a mess. The Errata is required.
The Foghoks is over half fuel and cargo, at about 5,300 tons out of the 10,000, so already you're down to a King Richard for detailed size. Missile magazine is another 150 tons or so.-Eight bays take another chunk out of that, though at TL11 Rating 7, they are only 50 ton bays. Still, that's another 400 tons that become pretty simple.-151 Staterooms. Another 604 tons.-Bridge size is not straightforward in MT and TNE, but the USP lists 13 Bridge Crew and 20 Command Crew. I think you can assume at least 30 tons of "walk around" Bridge, and maybe more. Not all of those Command crew are Bridge dressing...-Of the 3,600 tons left, around 1,166 are just the Power Plant. Jump Drive is another 300 tons, and the Maneuver Drive is 1,100 tons.-The two shuttles are another 200 or so total.-The last 600 odd tons is incidentals and no-maps like Life Support and gravity. Oh, and airlocks, which your gang WILL want to know about.
So more than half of the ship is fuel and cargo, and more than half of the rest is drives and bays. More than a third of what's left after that is staterooms.
As a 10k Needle/Wedge under MT, the ship will be between 160 (wedge) and 192 (Needle) meters in length under TNE design terms. That would normally mean decks between 80 and 96 TNE grid in length. BUT. The ship has no Inertial Compensation. It becomes either an old school space opera design with everyone strapped in, or at least some of the ship is stacked instead. And the ship is capable of 4G...
In TNE context, this thing was a deathtrap well before Virus hit it.
I'd say the ship is heavily segmented, built to handle changing gravity and still provide crew access, if not comfort. Weird "grav lock" stairways, ladders on t! he ceilings, swiveling bunks. No long grav pong hallways, though.
--
If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever happened to you would have been deserved.
Yes, the errata is extensive for the Foghoks, and MegaTraveller in general.
As published, the ship is missing thousands of tons of components, doesn't indicate how many Shuttles are carried, and a variety of other issues. Part of the fix by Clay Bush back in the day was to re-engineer the many broken ships of MT, and his corrected version is in the Errata document. One of those fixes was to increase the M-Drive.
MegaTraveller ships can be brought even closer to the performance available in CT HG by using a more detailed approach to endurance, which can reduce the fuel needs considerably for heavily armed or high G ships. TNE uses that approach more explicitly, so it shouldn't be a foreign idea to this list.