Thread: Zhodani history questions

So I have been digging into some of the Zhodani history and a few things
struck me odd and I wanted to see if there were any resources (sources)
that may shed light on my questions that I don't have possessions of.

The questions I am trying to puzzle out are;

1. Zhodani computer technology is not vulnerable to the 'Virus'? (Yes/No)
- They have had a space faring civilization for almost 6000+ years they
developed their computer technology, presumably, separately from the any
contact with the Imperium.

2. The frontier wars seem pointless from a Zhodani point of view. Were they
all started by Imperials?

--
If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever happened to you
would have been deserved.

1) lacking deyo/transponder vector but to some degree derivative
of ancients tech as the Vilani. Not invulnerable, by any means,
though.
2) I think have fair odds at starting at least half, especially
the first. Intent was not expansion, though, but to keep the
Imperials from getting any ideas of further expansion in their
direction... And that mostly worked.

>From my T989

John Potter wrote:


So I have been digging into some of the Zhodani history and a few
things struck me odd and I wanted to see if there were any
resources (sources) that may shed light on my questions that I
don't have possessions of.

The questions I am trying to puzzle out are;
1. Zhodani computer technology is not vulnerable to the 'Virus'?
(Yes/No)- They have had a space faring civilization for almost
6000+ years they developed their computer technology, presumably,
separately from the any contact with the Imperium.
2. The frontier wars seem pointless from a Zhodani point of view.
Were they all started by Imperials?

--
If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever happened
to you would have been deserved.

From what I can gather the Zho's survived Virus because they like the DoD were behind the claw and the rift next to Vargr space and Virus had to go through Norris first.

Derek Stanley
Sent from my iPhone...

On 2012-08-08, at 19:07, John Potter <> wrote:

> So I have been digging into some of the Zhodani history and a few things struck me odd and I wanted to see if there were any resources (sources) that may shed light on my questions that I don't have possessions of.
>
>
> The questions I am trying to puzzle out are;
>
> 1. Zhodani computer technology is not vulnerable to the 'Virus'? (Yes/No)
> - They have had a space faring civilization for almost 6000+ years they developed their computer technology, presumably, separately from the any contact with the Imperium.
>
> 2. The frontier wars seem pointless from a Zhodani point of view. Were they all started by Imperials?
>
> --
> If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever happened to you would have been deserved.
>

1) As I understand the issue the virus was a result of a semi-sentient
silicon based life form got mixed in with cpu/memory mediums used in
Imperial technology.

The Zhodani wouldn't have used said lifeform due to wasn't in their area of
charted space. If this is off the mark what literature should I be looking
at that actually explains how the virus became what it ended up being (I
know about the R&D during the civil war after Strephon's assassination)?

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 7:26 PM,
<>wrote:

> **
>
>
>
>
> 1) lacking deyo/transponder vector but to some degree derivative of
> ancients tech as the Vilani. Not invulnerable, by any means, though.
>
> 2) I think have fair odds at starting at least half, especially the first.
> Intent was not expansion, though, but to keep the Imperials from getting
> any ideas of further expansion in their direction... And that mostly worked.
>
>
> From my T989
>
>
> John Potter ** wrote:
>
>
>
> So I have been digging into some of the Zhodani history and a few things
> struck me odd and I wanted to see if there were any resources (sources)
> that may shed light on my questions that I don't have possessions of.
>
> The questions I am trying to puzzle out are;
>
> 1. Zhodani computer technology is not vulnerable to the 'Virus'? (Yes/No)
> - They have had a space faring civilization for almost 6000+ years they
> developed their computer technology, presumably, separately from the any
> contact with the Imperium.
>
> 2. The frontier wars seem pointless from a Zhodani point of view. Were
> they all started by Imperials?
>
> --
> If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever happened to you
> would have been deserved.
>
>
>

--
If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever happened to you
would have been deserved.

On 8 August 2012 22:32, John Potter <> wrote:

> **
>
>
> 1) As I understand the issue the virus was a result of a semi-sentient
> silicon based life form got mixed in with cpu/memory mediums used in
> Imperial technology.
>
> The Zhodani wouldn't have used said lifeform due to wasn't in their area
> of charted space. If this is off the mark what literature should I be
> looking at that actually explains how the virus became what it ended up
> being (I know about the R&D during the civil war after Strephon's
> assassination)?
>
> It's been a while, but IIRC the history is:
Virus was a silicon based lifeform that an Imperial research station was
weaponizing.
During the civil war the research station got jumped on by one of the
factions who uploaded everything they could find (presumably ignoring the
big 'quarantine: don't attach this to your network).
Virus took over that fleet and when it got out of jump, it transmitted to
every other ship via their transponders and then the infection spread.

Virus is sufficiently advanced that it can adapt to any silicon based
computer system, so everyones computers are vulnerable - Aslan, Zhodani,
Vargr, K'Kree, even the Hivers.

That's why sneakernet is the preferred method for computers talking to one
another.

--
Axel

On 12-08-08 19:07, John Potter wrote:
>
> 2. The frontier wars seem pointless from a Zhodani point of view. Were
> they all started by Imperials?

They were all (except perhaps the 4th) started by the Zhodani. They
don't want their growth to outstrip their ability to manage their
people, so plan on careful and deliberate growth. Into this environment
rushes the Imperium, rapidly expanding along their Rimward flank,
restricting future growth and reducing Zhodani influence. And unlike
the Vargr, the Imperials are unified and thus a greater potential
military threat. The wars have been a deliberate policy to stop
Imperial expansion in their backyard and keep the Imperium off-balance.

--
Edward Swatschek -

> 1. Zhodani computer technology is not vulnerable to the 'Virus'? (Yes/No)

> - They have had a space faring civilization for almost 6000+ years they
developed their computer technology,

> presumably, separately from the any contact with the Imperium.

1A: The "developing independent of the Imperium" is not much proof, as the
Aslan, Vargr, K'kree, and Hivers all got hammered by Virus. So, while the
Imperial transponder was the best entry vector, Virus developed well enough
to not rely on it.

No, the real reason the Zhodani was not affected by Virus is because it was
protected by Norris and the DoD. And going through the Vargr Extents was
slow and hard. As a result, the Virus never reached Zhodani space. And even
if Virus did reach Zhodani space, they would have had all of the protections
used by the DoD/Regency, so Virus would have been stonewalled anyway.

So the Zhodani were not spared by their "different" technology, but rather
by being shielded by Deneb and the Vargr.

> 2. The frontier wars seem pointless from a Zhodani point of view. Were
they all started by Imperials?

All (or pretty close to all) of the Frontier Wars were started by the
Zhodani. The stated goal of the Frontier Wars for the Zhodani was to check
Imperial expansion. In that, they were actually quite effective. Really, in
the five Frontier Wars, they were 3-1-1. They won the first three handily,
no one did anything in the fourth, and the Imperium got a slight win in the
fifth. In later wars, the goal was to carve off a piece of the Imperium and
have it form a buffer state, but they did not achieve that goal. (Basically,
they wanted Jewell subsector to be a buffer state.)

Which is all why the Zhodani was totally non-hostile to Deneb and the later
Regency. Deneb/Regency was too small to be a threat to the Zhodani, and
they, for all intents and purposes, became a larger version of that buffer
state the Zhodani always wanted. (Of course, it all became totally moot when
the Zhodani Consulate then disintegrated.)

Mike West

--- In , Edward Swatschek <traveller@...> wrote:
>
> On 12-08-08 19:07, John Potter wrote:
> >
> > 2. The frontier wars seem pointless from a Zhodani point of view. Were
> > they all started by Imperials?
>
>
> They were all (except perhaps the 4th) started by the Zhodani. They
> don't want their growth to outstrip their ability to manage their
> people, so plan on careful and deliberate growth. Into this environment
> rushes the Imperium, rapidly expanding along their Rimward flank,
> restricting future growth and reducing Zhodani influence. And unlike
> the Vargr, the Imperials are unified and thus a greater potential
> military threat. The wars have been a deliberate policy to stop
> Imperial expansion in their backyard and keep the Imperium off-balance.
>
>
> --
> Edward Swatschek - edjs@...
>

At the same time, the Zhodani have taken steps to stabilize the Vargr states close to them.

The newest Zhodani book (from Mongoose) also ties the later Frontier Wars in to the Empress Wave, retcons the Wave's velocity to a parsec per year, and states plainly that the Zhodani see it coming *and are worried*.

As far as the EW is concerned I have that covered.

I just have a hard time believing that a 6000+ year old 'human'
oriented space faring civilization would have identical technology base to
every other human civilization when they developed in nearly totally
isolation from the other civilizations. (ie no material or cultural
exchanges of significant note.)

I am ok with an answer of 'because the story is that way" but am looking
for a direct written reference to this effect or something stating 'yes
their tech is different.' so I can do the research myself.

The resources I have access to myself don't elaborate at all.

On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 10:35 AM, James <> wrote:

> **
>
>
> --- In , Edward Swatschek <traveller@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > On 12-08-08 19:07, John Potter wrote:
> > >
> > > 2. The frontier wars seem pointless from a Zhodani point of view. Were
> > > they all started by Imperials?
> >
> >
> > They were all (except perhaps the 4th) started by the Zhodani. They
> > don't want their growth to outstrip their ability to manage their
> > people, so plan on careful and deliberate growth. Into this environment
> > rushes the Imperium, rapidly expanding along their Rimward flank,
> > restricting future growth and reducing Zhodani influence. And unlike
> > the Vargr, the Imperials are unified and thus a greater potential
> > military threat. The wars have been a deliberate policy to stop
> > Imperial expansion in their backyard and keep the Imperium off-balance.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Edward Swatschek - edjs@...
> >
>
> At the same time, the Zhodani have taken steps to stabilize the Vargr
> states close to them.
>
> The newest Zhodani book (from Mongoose) also ties the later Frontier Wars
> in to the Empress Wave, retcons the Wave's velocity to a parsec per year,
> and states plainly that the Zhodani see it coming *and are worried*.
>
>
>

--
If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever happened to you
would have been deserved.

None said identical.
How many ways are there of doing the same thing? Are the
differences significant enough for it to be more than minutae?
the way it was written, from everything from computing to jump
drive to weaponry, no.
IMTU, I made Vilani jump drives slightly different in detail from
Solomani, but in canon the system was designed to be abstract so
that those details didn't really amount enough to matter.
I think your misconception is on Virus, though. Doesn't matter
if it's silicon based or carbon organic/synaptic... The hardware
layer is just a medium which Virus is supposed to transcend.
Think of Virus like a prion, not a viral analogy (in biological
terms).


>From my T989

John Potter wrote:


As far as the EW is concerned I have that covered.

I just have a hard time believing that a 6000+ year old 'human'
oriented space faring civilization would have identical
technology base to every other human civilization when they
developed in nearly totally isolation from the other
civilizations. (ie no material or cultural exchanges of
significant note.)
I am ok with an answer of 'because the story is that way" but am
looking for a direct written reference to this effect or
something stating 'yes their tech is different.' so I can do the
research myself.
The resources I have access to myself don't elaborate at all.

On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 10:35 AM, James <
<> > wrote:


--- In
<> , Edward Swatschek
<traveller@...> wrote:
>
> On 12-08-08 19:07, John Potter wrote:
> >
> > 2. The frontier wars seem pointless from a Zhodani point of
view. Were
> > they all started by Imperials?
>
>
> They were all (except perhaps the 4th) started by the Zhodani.
They
> don't want their growth to outstrip their ability to manage
their
> people, so plan on careful and deliberate growth. Into this
environment
> rushes the Imperium, rapidly expanding along their Rimward
flank,
> restricting future growth and reducing Zhodani influence. And
unlike
> the Vargr, the Imperials are unified and thus a greater
potential
> military threat. The wars have been a deliberate policy to
stop
> Imperial expansion in their backyard and keep the Imperium
off-balance.
>
>
> --
> Edward Swatschek - edjs@...
>

At the same time, the Zhodani have taken steps to stabilize the
Vargr states close to them.

The newest Zhodani book (from Mongoose) also ties the later
Frontier Wars in to the Empress Wave, retcons the Wave's velocity
to a parsec per year, and states plainly that the Zhodani see it
coming *and are worried*.






--
If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever happened
to you would have been deserved.

Thanks for that it makes sense, and you were correct part of my
understanding was that the technology on which the Virus lived 'mattered'
as long as it was a certain rating also.

On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 12:15 PM,
<>wrote:

> **
>
>
>
> None said identical.
>
> How many ways are there of doing the same thing? Are the differences
> significant enough for it to be more than minutae? the way it was written,
> from everything from computing to jump drive to weaponry, no.
>
> IMTU, I made Vilani jump drives slightly different in detail from
> Solomani, but in canon the system was designed to be abstract so that those
> details didn't really amount enough to matter.
>
> I think your misconception is on Virus, though. Doesn't matter if it's
> silicon based or carbon organic/synaptic... The hardware layer is just a
> medium which Virus is supposed to transcend. Think of Virus like a prion,
> not a viral analogy (in biological terms).
>
>
>
> From my T989
>
>
> John Potter ** wrote:
>
>
>
> As far as the EW is concerned I have that covered.
>
> I just have a hard time believing that a 6000+ year old 'human'
> oriented space faring civilization would have identical technology base to
> every other human civilization when they developed in nearly totally
> isolation from the other civilizations. (ie no material or cultural
> exchanges of significant note.)
>
> I am ok with an answer of 'because the story is that way" but am looking
> for a direct written reference to this effect or something stating 'yes
> their tech is different.' so I can do the research myself.
>
> The resources I have access to myself don't elaborate at all.
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 10:35 AM, James <> wrote:
>
>> **
>>
>>
>> --- In , Edward Swatschek <traveller@...>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > On 12-08-08 19:07, John Potter wrote:
>> > >
>> > > 2. The frontier wars seem pointless from a Zhodani point of view.
>> Were
>> > > they all started by Imperials?
>> >
>> >
>> > They were all (except perhaps the 4th) started by the Zhodani. They
>> > don't want their growth to outstrip their ability to manage their
>> > people, so plan on careful and deliberate growth. Into this environment
>> > rushes the Imperium, rapidly expanding along their Rimward flank,
>> > restricting future growth and reducing Zhodani influence. And unlike
>> > the Vargr, the Imperials are unified and thus a greater potential
>> > military threat. The wars have been a deliberate policy to stop
>> > Imperial expansion in their backyard and keep the Imperium off-balance.
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Edward Swatschek - edjs@...
>> >
>>
>> At the same time, the Zhodani have taken steps to stabilize the Vargr
>> states close to them.
>>
>> The newest Zhodani book (from Mongoose) also ties the later Frontier Wars
>> in to the Empress Wave, retcons the Wave's velocity to a parsec per year,
>> and states plainly that the Zhodani see it coming *and are worried*.
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever happened to you
> would have been deserved.
>
>
>

--
If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever happened to you
would have been deserved.