Thread: Re: Solomani Explorers (was Re: [Traveller_TNE] Re: Traveller Virus

Eamon--

I don't mean this as a swipe against you, but you raise an issue I've
wondered about:

> I think Rats & Cats...

I often wonder from whence comes the hobby's habit to give derogatory
names to the game products out there. It was certainly prevalent in
Traveller, but I know it was there in D&D. "Gods, Demigods, and Heroes"
became, "Clods, Demi-clods, and Zeroes," etc.

I know I would use "Shattered Ships of the Fighting Imperium," but only
after having had to unsuccessfully respond to so many errata e-mails about
all of the, well, shattered ships in it.

It's hard not to wonder if it's an incipient self-loathing in the gamer
psyche, having to put down everything they love and collect and feel
compelled to spend money on. "I hate myself for my addiction."

Was it more or less prevalent in some segments (e.g., RPGs vs. historical
war games), or manufacturers (e.g., GDW vs. TSR, etc.)?

Dave

> I think Rats & Cats gives the Iouo as overdue for return from the next
> spiral arm. Could be a nice thing to drop into the mix in Banners, or
> perhaps some state in the area decides to send out ships to try and find
> the vessel. 
>
> Of course, if the ship gets hit by a hobbyist virus, perhaps it goes on an
> 'ongoing mission of exploration'.
>
>
> Eamon
>
>
>>From: Antony Farrell <>
>
>
>>Another thought occurred to me. When were the Solomani Rimward
>> exploration vessels supposed to return? I picture
>
>>them arriving years after the virus devastation. These ships would have
>> been loaded with the then state of the art
>
>>Solomani technology but still vulnerable to infection. The ship or ships
>> become infected but the Sols are able to fight it off
>
>>– they were also huge research vessels with again much redundancy and
>> possibly some alien tech which helps fend off
>
>>the virus. (Did they run into something similar in the far reaches,
>> Cylons;)) 
>

- Dave

Your answer is rooted in psychology and demographics. Its been my personal
experience is that gamers (in general) have two fundamental qualities,
cynicism and passion. The former come from the emotional disappointment due
to the latter.

We become emotionally attached to the things we love/passionate about. With
emotional attachment becomes the tendency to want the optimal or best
outcomes relating to the object of attachment.

We may even get the satisfaction we want for a time but with success builds
towards an even more lofty fall of expectations.

This is really just a wordy way of saying we get disappointed a lot and
deal with it by giving disappointing products pet names that become
in-jokes eventually.

On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 7:55 AM, <> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Eamon--
>
> I don't mean this as a swipe against you, but you raise an issue I've
> wondered about:
>
> > I think Rats & Cats...
>
> I often wonder from whence comes the hobby's habit to give derogatory
> names to the game products out there. It was certainly prevalent in
> Traveller, but I know it was there in D&D. "Gods, Demigods, and Heroes"
> became, "Clods, Demi-clods, and Zeroes," etc.
>
> I know I would use "Shattered Ships of the Fighting Imperium," but only
> after having had to unsuccessfully respond to so many errata e-mails about
> all of the, well, shattered ships in it.
>
> It's hard not to wonder if it's an incipient self-loathing in the gamer
> psyche, having to put down everything they love and collect and feel
> compelled to spend money on. "I hate myself for my addiction."
>
> Was it more or less prevalent in some segments (e.g., RPGs vs. historical
> war games), or manufacturers (e.g., GDW vs. TSR, etc.)?
>
> Dave
>
>
> > I think Rats & Cats gives the Iouo as overdue for return from the next
> > spiral arm. Could be a nice thing to drop into the mix in Banners, or
> > perhaps some state in the area decides to send out ships to try and find
> > the vessel.�
>
> >
> > Of course, if the ship gets hit by a hobbyist virus, perhaps it goes on
> an
> > 'ongoing mission of exploration'.
> >
> >
> > Eamon
> >
> >
> >>From: Antony Farrell <>
> >
> >
> >>Another thought occurred to me. When were the Solomani Rimward
> >> exploration vessels supposed to return? I picture
> >
> >>them arriving years after the virus devastation. These ships would have
> >> been loaded with the then state of the art
> >
> >>Solomani technology but still vulnerable to infection. The ship or ships
> >> become infected but the Sols are able to fight it off
> >
> >>– they were also huge research vessels with again much redundancy and
>
> >> possibly some alien tech which helps fend off
> >
> >>the virus. (Did they run into something similar in the far reaches,
> >> Cylons;))�
> >
>
>
>

--
If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever happened to you
would have been deserved.

Checked Solomani and Aslan, it says that the Iouo returned in 5624, a fleet of 17 base ships being sent out in 5568, so a 56 year round trip. It also says that three ships including the largest had yet to return.

Antony

John--

Another very good answer.

And that is pretty close to my "I hate myself for my addiction," thought,
though with some important differences.

It's still odd what a self-flagellating lot we gamers are. And I include
myself in this, I've been through the same thing.

If you saw a Ford driver running around referring to his car as, "Fix Or
Repair Daily," you know next time out he's buying something different. But
if you saw him turn around and buy another Ford time after time after time
and keep talking about how lousy Fords were, you'd start to wonder what
was up with him.

I think gamers (and I include myself in that) are a lot like that odd Ford
driver.

I think it has to do with a game or whatever is your object of affection
reaching a certain threshhold of quality so that it captures your
imagination. Only then can you love it enough to get ticked off when it's
not as good as you wanted. That's like me with the BSG reboot. It never
would have annoyed me as badly as it did had it not had so much
well-executed promise to begin with...before it became a soap opera. But I
own the DVDs, and have the QMX Viper on layaway...

Dave

> - Dave
>
> Your answer is rooted in psychology and demographics. Its been my personal
> experience is that gamers (in general) have two fundamental qualities,
> cynicism and passion. The former come from the emotional disappointment
> due
> to the latter.
>
> We become emotionally attached to the things we love/passionate about.
> With
> emotional attachment becomes the tendency to want the optimal or best
> outcomes relating to the object of attachment.
>
> We may even get the satisfaction we want for a time but with success
> builds
> towards an even more lofty fall of expectations.
>
> This is really just a wordy way of saying we get disappointed a lot and
> deal with it by giving disappointing products pet names that become
> in-jokes eventually.
>
> On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 7:55 AM, <> wrote:
>
>> **
>>
>>
>> Eamon--
>>
>> I don't mean this as a swipe against you, but you raise an issue I've
>> wondered about:
>>
>> > I think Rats & Cats...
>>
>> I often wonder from whence comes the hobby's habit to give derogatory
>> names to the game products out there. It was certainly prevalent in
>> Traveller, but I know it was there in D&D. "Gods, Demigods, and Heroes"
>> became, "Clods, Demi-clods, and Zeroes," etc.
>>
>> I know I would use "Shattered Ships of the Fighting Imperium," but only
>> after having had to unsuccessfully respond to so many errata e-mails
>> about
>> all of the, well, shattered ships in it.
>>
>> It's hard not to wonder if it's an incipient self-loathing in the gamer
>> psyche, having to put down everything they love and collect and feel
>> compelled to spend money on. "I hate myself for my addiction."
>>
>> Was it more or less prevalent in some segments (e.g., RPGs vs.
>> historical
>> war games), or manufacturers (e.g., GDW vs. TSR, etc.)?
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> > I think Rats & Cats gives the Iouo as overdue for return from the next
>> > spiral arm. Could be a nice thing to drop into the mix in Banners, or
>> > perhaps some state in the area decides to send out ships to try and
>> find
>> > the vessel.Â
>>
>> >
>> > Of course, if the ship gets hit by a hobbyist virus, perhaps it goes
>> on
>> an
>> > 'ongoing mission of exploration'.
>> >
>> >
>> > Eamon
>> >
>> >
>> >>From: Antony Farrell <>
>> >
>> >
>> >>Another thought occurred to me. When were the Solomani Rimward
>> >> exploration vessels supposed to return? I picture
>> >
>> >>them arriving years after the virus devastation. These ships would
>> have
>> >> been loaded with the then state of the art
>> >
>> >>Solomani technology but still vulnerable to infection. The ship or
>> ships
>> >> become infected but the Sols are able to fight it off
>> >
>> >>– they were also huge research vessels with again much redundancy
>> and
>>
>> >> possibly some alien tech which helps fend off
>> >
>> >>the virus. (Did they run into something similar in the far reaches,
>> >> Cylons;))Â
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> If the world was fair then every bad thing that has ever happened to you
> would have been deserved.
>

Consty--

> Are you sure you're not reading too much into it, Dave? ;)

That is ALWAYS a possibility! :-)

And maybe derogatory isn't the best word, but that's the way it always
felt. "Clods and Demiclods" for "Gods and Demigods," "Greyschlock" for
"Greyhawk," etc.

And maybe my point is that if it was just the chuckleheads I went to
junior high with, I wouldn't ever remember it, but I get to GDW 20 years
later and meet people there using EXACTLY the same joke names, and they're
throughout the hobby in all the RPGs, like as soon as a book comes out
some panel somewhere comes up with the joke name and transmits it via dog
whistle.

And you know, blah, blah, blah, subcultures and jargon to mark their lines
of membership, blah, blah, blah, the TV generation knows put-downs always
make you sound cooler, blah, blah, blah.

Whatever.

Eamon was saying something.

Eamon, you still there?

Cheers Antony!

>From: Antony Farrell <>

>Checked Solomani and Aslan, it says that the Iouo returned in 5624, a fleet of 17 base ships being sent out in 5568, so 
>a 56 year round trip. It also says that three ships including the largest had yet to return.

Fighting Ships was always worthless to not even primarily sure to
it's infamous errata but because of its system, which I didn't
use. I did make great use of its prose to chart the evolution of
Imperial capital ships along with supp 9. My personal fav being
the BH14 Panthera precursor to the Tigress.
I was also find of plans for a prototype BZ15 being found in the
New Era. It would get a unique Virus strain from Sandman's
progeny...

---
from my T989

Always liked the idea of a campaign on a returning Rim
expedition. They wouldn't have bothered to put Imperial
transponders on those ships, though likely had Solomani IFF. I
had also considered a Fleet or two might have a muted, if not
deviant Party evolution due to the time away. I was leaning on a
fleet influenced by the timeless ideals of the Turin
Consolidation coming back in the New Era.Their forebears had been
caught up either in jump space phenomena and/or local affairs and
left the legacy of return to their descendants. Wary of what they
knew of the Confederation, they disabled and removed Solomani IFF
and would come with some alt tech, as well, including their own
AI...

---
from my T989

Eamon Watters wrote:


I think Rats & Cats gives the Iouo as overdue for return from the
next spiral arm. Could be a nice thing to drop into the mix in
Banners, or perhaps some state in the area decides to send out
ships to try and find the vessel.

Of course, if the ship gets hit by a hobbyist virus, perhaps it
goes on an 'ongoing mission of exploration'.

Eamon

>From: Antony Farrell <
<> >

>Another thought occurred to me. When were the Solomani Rimward
exploration vessels supposed to return? I picture

>them arriving years after the virus devastation. These ships
would have been loaded with the then state of the art

>Solomani technology but still vulnerable to infection. The ship
or ships become infected but the Sols are able to fight it off

>– they were also huge research vessels with again much
redundancy and possibly some alien tech which helps fend off

>the virus. (Did they run into something similar in the far
reaches, Cylons;))