"Bwana" Dave wrote:
>It would be even easier to retcon that the X-boat tender didn't have an
>enclosed shirt-sleeve hangar for X-boats it "carries"; it could have
>external grapples to grab onto them and maintain them and even jump with
>them. End of quandary. Now we're back to how much waste space there is in a
>ship that carried a small craft and needs room to turn it around, take it
>apart, put it up on jacks, maneuver it to its launch and entry ports, and
>allow cargo to be efficiently carried to and loaded aboard it.
What you need is magmagmag's magnificent jaw-dropping image of the X-boat
Tender in all its glory, grappling and maintaining a couple of X-boats...
----------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson ..at.. Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
Yes, I envisioned dispatch boats shaped like mushrooms on capital ships
(think of Frederick Pohl's Heechee ships), where what would show of the
boat outside the hull was the hemisphere, and after it had launched you'd
see the cylindrical hole that held the aft section. Of course that involved
my jump ships smaller than 100 tons heresy. I never liked the thresholds
that seemed arbitrary, like one turret per 100 tons and no jumps smaller
than 100 tons. I got away with the former, but violated holy writ with the
latter. If you did it with Xboats the cavity would be conical rather than
cylindrical.
On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 6:34 PM, Master Uxi
[Traveller_TNE] <> wrote:
>
>
> X-boats are a very specialized design... could be argued for a special
> case where there isn't (much) overhead and the ducked xboat is something
> like a ball joint than a conventional hangar...
>
> The grapples idea was used explicitly in the counter art for the Battle
> Tender designs in Battle Rider, so I suspect grapples would have been used
> had TNE continued.
>
> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017, 14:38 David Nilsen
> [Traveller_TNE] <> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> It would be even easier to retcon that the X-boat tender didn't have an
>> enclosed shirt-sleeve hangar for X-boats it "carries"; it could have
>> external grapples to grab onto them and maintain them and even jump with
>> them. End of quandary. Now we're back to how much waste space there is in a
>> ship that carried a small craft and needs room to turn it around, take it
>> apart, put it up on jacks, maneuver it to its launch and entry ports, and
>> allow cargo to be efficiently carried to and loaded aboard it. Look at an
>> LCS and see the appalling amount of waste space required to squire around a
>> lousy RHIB.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 2:02 AM, Todd Kes
>> [Traveller_TNE] <> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You could try to argue that the cargo tonnage is based on volume of
>>> liquid hydrogen, and most Traveller ships are more dense than that.
>>>
>>> Two, the cargo bay would have been designed from the start for X-Boat
>>> storage, so the cargo bay would have been 2 or even 3-levels, removing the
>>> cargo bay's floor/ceiling on as-needed basis.
>>>
>>> Three, you could argue that X-Boats are designed to come apart so they
>>> can fit into a non-standard cargo bay better. Instead of trying to fit the
>>> spherical X-Boat into the bay, a few days work with tools removes most of
>>> the extensions and the 'top'/'bottom' of the X-Boat so it can fit into a
>>> smaller bay.
>>>
>>> Fourth, you might have to design a better X-Boat Tender so it has a
>>> giant cargo door on one side to let the X-Boat in, and the rest of the ship
>>> is built around the spherical cargo bay.
>>>
>>> Assuming the X-Boat tender is a cube, with a side length 10% greater
>>> than the diameter of the circle, then you need to figure out the max
>>> available volume.
>>>
>>> I'd solve that as solving for two halves, one half where the X-Boat has
>>> to fit in, and one half where the ship can use its full volume
>>>
>>> So the X-Boat Tender would be designed where half of the ship has a
>>> volume of a rectangular solid minus that of a cylinder, and the second is
>>> another rectangular volume minus a hemisphere.
>>>
>>> Let D equal diameter of the X-Boat in meters
>>> R = radius of X-Boat (D/2)
>>> Cube side length = D+10% = 1.1D
>>>
>>> Rectangular volume = 1.1D * 1.1D * .55D = .6655 * D^3
>>> HemiSpherical volume = spherical volume/2 = 4/3 * pi() * R^3 / 2 = 2/3 *
>>> pi() * R^3
>>> Cylinder volume = pi() * R^2 * .55D
>>>
>>> So final volume available is
>>> .6655 D^3 - (2/3 * (pi()) * (D/2)^3 + .6655D^3 - pi() * (D/2)^2 * .55D
>>> .6655 D^3 + .6655D^3 - (2/3 * pi()) * (D/2)^3 - pi() * (D/2)^2 * .55D
>>> .6655 D^3 + .6655D^3 - (2/3 * pi()) * D^3/8 - pi() * D^2/4 * .55D
>>> 1.331 D^3 - (2/3 * pi()) * D^3/8 - pi() * D^2/4 * .55D
>>> 1.331 D^3 - (2/3 * pi())/8 * D^3 - .55 * pi() / 4 * D^2 * D
>>> 1.331 D^3 - (2/24 * pi()) * D^3 - .1375 * pi() * D^3
>>> [1.331 - (2/24 * pi()) - .1375 * pi()] * D^3
>>> [1.331 - 1/12 * pi() - .1375 * pi()] * D^3
>>> [1.331 - pi()/12 - .1375 * pi()] * D^3
>>> ~1.161 * D^3 will be the available volume of the X-Boat Tender, in cubic
>>> meters, based on trying to carry a spherical X-Boat internally
>>>
>>> You could get a little more room by having the X-Boat barely fit in the
>>> cargo bay so the cylinder volume is pi()*R^3 (the cylinder volume is the
>>> area of cross section of the X-Boat, times the radius of the X-Boat since
>>> it barely fits in), which would affect the above math.
>>>
>>> I fully expect the X-Boat Tender to be using that spherical cargo bay
>>> for lots of fuel tankage and repair parts, transferring fuel to the X-Boat
>>> as necessary, and storing extra parts inside the X-Boat (or the empty part
>>> of the cylinder if it has to be carried back).
>>>
>>> Todd Kes
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------
>>> On Mon, 11/13/17, David Nilsen [Traveller_TNE] <
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [Traveller_TNE] Xboat Tender
>>> To:
>>> Date: Monday, November 13, 2017, 1:05 AM
>>>
>>> The other huge problem that I forgot to
>>> mention is the tonnage for hangarage. The original LBB
>>> designs allowed small craft to be stored at straight tonnage
>>> which was great for designers, but ludicrous logically.
>>> Since X-boats are mostly spherical (light bulb shape),
>>> storing a spherical shape inside of a rectangular shape is
>>> appallingly wasteful. No one really wanted to deal with how
>>> much tonnage stored craft actually would require, because it
>>> would blow the hell out of all existing designs.Travellerdom
>>> was always divided into three groups: those who wanted
>>> perfect realism NOW, those who wanted all of the existing
>>> data to remain true no matter what, and those that wanted
>>> both at the same time.
>>>
>>
>>
>
Those are very nicely done. Looks like they store at 3x-4x volume, so a
cargo capacity of 1200+ tons. Blows the official design out of the water,
but hey, even fake reality asserts itself.
On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 11:31 PM, 'David Jaques-Watson'
[Traveller_TNE] <> wrote:
>
>
> Dear Folks -
>
> "Bwana" Dave wrote:
> >It would be even easier to retcon that the X-boat tender didn't have an
> >enclosed shirt-sleeve hangar for X-boats it "carries"; it could have
> >external grapples to grab onto them and maintain them and even jump with
> >them. End of quandary. Now we're back to how much waste space there is in
> a
> >ship that carried a small craft and needs room to turn it around, take it
> >apart, put it up on jacks, maneuver it to its launch and entry ports, and
> >allow cargo to be efficiently carried to and loaded aboard it.
>
> What you need is magmagmag's magnificent jaw-dropping image of the X-boat
> Tender in all its glory, grappling and maintaining a couple of X-boats..
>
> Take a look at the rounded cargo bay walls here:
>
> https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f8/73/d3/f873d3652344baf5974b4f7cb3fec4
> a6.jpg
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson ..at.. Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
> http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw
> "I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
>
>
>
BTW the sub-100t jump thing is one of my "Canon Problems" (Beowulf Down ==> Tavonni Repair Bays ==> Canon Problems ==> CANON PROBLEM 1: Jump Torpedoes).
The most elegant solution to which (I believe) is to make sub-100t jumps possible at TL 16+. This allows both the *Leviathan39;s* j-torps (experimental) AND your Regency jump boats (amazing what HRD/Deneb and the Darrians can come up with, right?).