I wouldn't ordinarily bother you guys with off topic material, but since
a good chunk of the TNE setting is rummaging around in ruins, I thought
that these pictures might come in handy for GMs.
Some of the Jungle Park photos at the first link could work particularly
well for the interior of a space station or large starship.
Cheers
Jim
On 28 August 2016 at 01:43, DED [Traveller_TNE] <
> wrote:
>
>
> I wouldn't ordinarily bother you guys with off topic material, but since a
> good chunk of the TNE setting is rummaging around in ruins, I thought that
> these pictures might come in handy for GMs.
>
> www.businessinsider.com/eerie-photos-of-wwii-junk-in-greenland-2016-8
>
> And another site for ruins in general (mostly from Japan):
>
> www.michaeljohngrist.com/ruins-gallery/
>
> \_/
> DED
> TNE @ Yahoo ml Admin
>
>
>
It actually makes me wonder at the feasibility of low tech worlds with no
or very thin atmospheres. what one person could do with a hammer and
chisel, what could hundreds accomplish with time and determination? at what
tech level to compression pumps become feasible if they are hand cranked?
what game possibilities are there if the handful of low tech worlds with
very thin atmospheres? are they regressed colonies that are barely hanging
on after the money making resources ran out?
What are the options in TNE when the collapse came in many cases overnight?
would said low tech habitats simply have been ignored? How would they have
survived such a troglodytic existence? specifically engineered mushrooms
and live stock that resembles cave rats and a superabundance of insects as
fodder? Any Low tech habitat world needs a very in depth and thought out
plan to explain survival.
On Sat, Aug 27, 2016 at 8:53 PM, Jim Clunie
[Traveller_TNE] <> wrote:
>
>
> Some of the Jungle Park photos at the first link could work particularly
> well for the interior of a space station or large starship.
>
>
> Cheers
> Jim
>
> On 28 August 2016 at 01:43, DED [Traveller_TNE] <
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I wouldn't ordinarily bother you guys with off topic material, but since
>> a good chunk of the TNE setting is rummaging around in ruins, I thought
>> that these pictures might come in handy for GMs.
>>
>> www.businessinsider.com/eerie-photos-of-wwii-junk-in-greenland-2016-8
>>
>> And another site for ruins in general (mostly from Japan):
>>
>> www.michaeljohngrist.com/ruins-gallery/
>>
>> \_/
>> DED
>> TNE @ Yahoo ml Admin
>>
>>
>>
>
--
"Christmas is a time when kids tell Santa what they want and adults pay for
it. Deficits are when adults tell the government what they want and their
kids pay for it."
I would say there is no limit to human endurance in trying to survive. I'd bet that there are some very odd societies still surviving in odd corners on boneyard worlds. Although after 70 or more years most have died out I'd expect.
On 27 Aug 2016 at 21:30, Another Carpenter justacarpen wrote:
> It actually makes me wonder at the feasibility of low tech worlds with
> no or very thin atmospheres. what one person could do with a hammer
> and chisel, what could hundreds accomplish with time and
> determination? at what tech level to compression pumps become feasible
> if they are hand cranked?
Otto von Guericke invented the vacuum pump in 1654. His design used a
piston, but once you have the principle, it's not that hard to
modify.
If you can build steam engines you can *definitely* build air pumps.
> what game possibilities are there if the
> handful of low tech worlds with very thin atmospheres? are they
> regressed colonies that are barely hanging on after the money making
> resources ran out? What are the options in TNE when the collapse came
> in many cases overnight? would said low tech habitats simply have been
> ignored?
As I've noted in the past on the TML, a colony on a *vacuum* world
could survie with early 1800s tech.
> How would they have survived such a troglodytic existence?
> specifically engineered mushrooms and live stock that resembles cave
> rats and a superabundance of insects as fodder? Any Low tech habitat
> world needs a very in depth and thought out plan to explain
> survival.
Food isn't as hard as you may think. Especially if you have the tech
to make glass. You'd want to keep greenhouses small in case of
breakage of panes. Though wire reinforced glass will help a lot
there.
Chickens are a possible food animal. so are guinea pigs (that's what
they are *still* used for in Peru) Rabbits are another possibility
for small animals.
Chickens will cheerfully eat insects. Rabbits and guinea pigs will
eat a lot of parts of the plants that humans don't/won39;t.
Composting of various wastes really helps.
If you have artifical lighting you can just light caves (natural or
man-made) underground.
Note that the "artifical wetland" type of sewage treatment may
require a fair bit of space, but is *very* l;ow tech. It also lets
you recover heavy metals. They accumulate in the "grasses" of the
first few stages and can be recovered from the ash if you burn them.
Not a high grade ore, but useful.
You raise fish (such as tilapia) in the ponds of the final stages.
That's another food source. Rice and other "swampy" plants can be
grown there too.
Such a system could have been set up when the place was still high
tech (or set up for them by a higher tech contractor). The lighting
and pumps are pretty much the only thing that the *Romans* couldn't
have done.
--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at shadowgard dot com
It actually makes me wonder at the feasibility of low tech worlds with no
or very thin atmospheres. what one person could do with a hammer and
chisel, what could hundreds accomplish with time and determination? at what
tech level to compression pumps become feasible if they are hand cranked?
what game possibilities are there if the handful of low tech worlds with
very thin atmospheres? are they regressed colonies that are barely hanging
on after the money making resources ran out?
What are the options in TNE when the collapse came in many cases overnight?
would said low tech habitats simply have been ignored? How would they have
survived such a troglodytic existence? specifically engineered mushrooms
and live stock that resembles cave rats and a superabundance of insects as
fodder? Any Low tech habitat world needs a very in depth and thought out
plan to explain survival.
============================
As you know, the general rule in TNE is that these worlds died out.
However, I think that there can be exceptions put in by the referee. As
Shadow pointed out, there are means of low tech survival for these
situations. But the odds are stacked against these worlds.
If the worlds were spared the suicidal impact of early strains of Virus,
they'd have a chance. If a cruiser performs a death spiral on your domed
city, you're not going to have much time to plan out a low tech survival
strategy. People typically didn't find out about the Viral Plague until
it struck their world.
If your world is spared from suicides and "carbon-based life sucks"
attacks from more evolved strains, you'll have some time to figure out a
lower tech level means of maintaining your environment before the life
support equipment breaks down. But for a world to avoid these sorts of
attacks over several decades, it would have to be located far from the
general action. Backwater worlds likely would be in better shape than
worlds on a jump-1 line like the Vilani Main. A destroyer infected with
"all carbon-based life must die" personality is probably going to be
thorough in its mission.
Since Tech Level represents what a world is capable of manufacturing on
their own, they probably just imported the life support systems they
rely on. A TL-5 world would probably be using life support equipment
rated at TL-B or C because it was easy enough to acquire and maintain
via service contracts. If Virus spared them, they'd have some time to
either scavenge parts or come up with a lower tech workaround.
At most, I'd think that only 1 in 30 of these low tech inhospitable
worlds had any chance of survival. Feasible enough for a GM to justify
putting into their campaign here or there, but too difficult to be a
common occurrence.
> Since Tech Level represents what a world is capable of manufacturing
> on their own, they probably just imported the life support systems
> they rely on. A TL-5 world would probably be using life support
> equipment rated at TL-B or C because it was easy enough to acquire and
> maintain via service contracts. If Virus spared them, they'd have some
> time to either scavenge parts or come up with a lower tech workaround.
At the same time. lower tech systems tend to be more robust in some
ways.
I could see some worlds ruunning the "low tech" stuff *alongside* the
high tech stuff, with both havng sufficent "excess capacity" to
handle the whole load if necessary.
That way if the high tech system fails, you are able to keep going
with the low tech system until repairs are made.
and you *can* repair the low tech system without outside help.
With life support redundancy is *necessary*. Folks who don't have can
wind up dead of far less traumatic occurences than the collapse of
interstellar travel. :-)
Another plus is if the world gets "frequent" major population swings.
Say there's some regular event (natural or cultural) that brings in a
lot of tourists.
That'd require a fair bit of "extra" life support capacity. So if
they got cut of between tourist seasons, especially if it's been long
enough since the last one for them to have restocked, they'll be in
*much* better shape than someplace with a steady population.
> At most, I'd think that only 1 in 30 of these low tech inhospitable
> worlds had any chance of survival. Feasible enough for a GM to justify
> putting into their campaign here or there, but too difficult to be a
> common occurrence.
Besides, if they are uncommon, it'll be more of a shock the the
players when they discover that not only are there locals, but they
are doing just fine, thank you.
Going in expecting to salvage stuff from a dead world and discovering
you have to *negotiate* with the locals for anything can be really
annoying.
Especially if there's not that much surviving high tech gear and they
aren't gonna part with it.
Evil thought. If they fell to a low, but not *too* low point, and got
visited by a strain of virus that either wasn't into "nuke 'em til
they glow" or lacked the capacity to wipe them out, their low tech
could be an advantage.
Can't infect computers that aren't high enough tech. And maybe even
if you can, they may not be controlling anything all that vital.
But even if they got lucky and "killed" the Virus infested ship,
they'll be *really* suspicious when the PCs show up.
Another fun possibility is if they've already been "recontacted", but
by some folks who are barely above being pirates. they saw that there
really wasn't anything worth the trouble of fighting over, and (in a
flash of brilliance) realized that this might be a good place to do
limited R&R. There may not be wide open spaces, but the habitats are
a lot rommier than the ship, there are poeople of the appropriate sex
that can be "interacted" with, and there's booze and decent food.
So here come our heroes, only to find out that as far as these folks
are concerned the notorious [fitb] are nice guys, and bring them
useful stuff to trade for supplies and entertainment.
--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at shadowgard dot com