Thread: Re: Lost in Space / J Space

3 posts.

The transponder bit bugs me... You'd think after 911 someone would have said, we really shouldn't have a way of turning these things off.

Your sensor implications are true, has anyone pondered (I don't recall and I'm waiting for my ADHD / ODD / OCD child to finally passout and can't look) does trav use dedicated jump points? IE. The fabric between our space and J-Space is weakest at ... a la grange point ... so all jumps out should (barring an emergency) happen there. Or does one simply head out in any direction (typically towards the destination star) and push the button?

Derek Stanley
Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 7, 2014, at 6:31 PM, DED <> wrote:
>
> DEREK STANLEY wrote:
>
> >>Having been following the search for the missing jet for the past while I can't help but wonder just how daunting looking for a missing starship would be. Even if you knew the system it was in if it'd well and truly gone dark finding it would be ... Next to impossible.
>
> And if you'd misjumped and precip'd out somewhere in the outer solar system. Yuck... Makes you wonder how many ships have simple gone into the well and never been heard from again.
>
> Derek Stanley<<
>
> I'm not so sure about the first case.
>
> First off, there's the transponder. You'd have to intentionally turn it off (like the missing jet), which I don't believe free traders are going to do unless something was up.
>
> Secondly, you're using TL-12 (or better) sensors versus what we've got today.
>
> Thirdly, how long before the IR signature of the starship blends in with background crap.
>
> Fourthly, space versus ocean. The ocean is a chaotic mix of currents and eddies, not to mention it's a difficult medium to penetrate and resolve. It's why nuclear submarines are such a popular choice to sneak nukes around on a planet.
>
> Space? Nada. There are no currents, unless you want to count the solar wind and that only blows in one direction: away from the star. And there's gravity, but that's somewhat predictable and far less chaotic than ocean currents. If you know the ship's last heading, you're off to a good start.
>
> The only thing that obscures your sensors are other "things", unless the star's EM output is that bad (but we compensate for that now). We're finding planets around other stars, right now. Amateur astronomers are finding asteroids in our own solar system. On a really clear night where the light pollution isn't so bad, I'll bet you can spot a satellite with just your eyes--and that's through an atmosphere.
>
> A big, shiny refined metal spacecraft out in the emptiness of space is going to be easier to find with TL-12 gear than that plane.
>
> A misjump is a whole nother matter, however.
>
> \_/
> DED
> TNE @ Yahoo ml Admin
>
No jump points. You can jump from wherever you want (outside the umpty G
gradient). There will be typical jump-out/jump-in points, but these will
be movable, in relation to the gas giant you want to jump in and refuel
from, the main world you want to trade on or departing from. But these
will also be variable based on the residual vector you're carrying. If you
were going like a bat out of hell trying to escape pursuers, you'll want
to adjust your target point so you don't overshoot the gas giant for
example. If you're trying to jump into a system unseen you might jump in
on the far side of the sun from the main world or something like that.

And then there are microjumps which can insert and exit anywhere.

> The transponder bit bugs me... You'd think after 911 someone would have
> said, we really shouldn't have a way of turning these things off.
>
> Your sensor implications are true, has anyone pondered (I don't recall and
> I'm waiting for my ADHD / ODD / OCD child to finally passout and can't
> look) does trav use dedicated jump points? IE. The fabric between our
> space and J-Space is weakest at ... a la grange point ... so all jumps out
> should (barring an emergency) happen there. Or does one simply head out
> in any direction (typically towards the destination star) and push the
> button?
>
> Derek Stanley
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Apr 7, 2014, at 6:31 PM, DED <> wrote:
>>
>> DEREK STANLEY wrote:
>>
>> >>Having been following the search for the missing jet for the past
>> while I can't help but wonder just how daunting looking for a missing
>> starship would be. Even if you knew the system it was in if it'd well
>> and truly gone dark finding it would be ... Next to impossible.
>>
>> And if you'd misjumped and precip'd out somewhere in the outer solar
>> system. Yuck... Makes you wonder how many ships have simple gone into
>> the well and never been heard from again.
>>
>> Derek Stanley<<
>>
>> I'm not so sure about the first case.
>>
>> First off, there's the transponder. You'd have to intentionally turn it
>> off (like the missing jet), which I don't believe free traders are going
>> to do unless something was up.
>>
>> Secondly, you're using TL-12 (or better) sensors versus what we've got
>> today.
>>
>> Thirdly, how long before the IR signature of the starship blends in with
>> background crap.
>>
>> Fourthly, space versus ocean. The ocean is a chaotic mix of currents and
>> eddies, not to mention it's a difficult medium to penetrate and resolve.
>> It's why nuclear submarines are such a popular choice to sneak nukes
>> around on a planet.
>>
>> Space? Nada. There are no currents, unless you want to count the solar
>> wind and that only blows in one direction: away from the star. And
>> there's gravity, but that's somewhat predictable and far less chaotic
>> than ocean currents. If you know the ship's last heading, you're off to
>> a good start.
>>
>> The only thing that obscures your sensors are other "things", unless the
>> star's EM output is that bad (but we compensate for that now). We're
>> finding planets around other stars, right now. Amateur astronomers are
>> finding asteroids in our own solar system. On a really clear night where
>> the light pollution isn't so bad, I'll bet you can spot a satellite with
>> just your eyes--and that's through an atmosphere.
>>
>> A big, shiny refined metal spacecraft out in the emptiness of space is
>> going to be easier to find with TL-12 gear than that plane.
>>
>> A misjump is a whole nother matter, however.
>>
>> \_/
>> DED
>> TNE @ Yahoo ml Admin
>>
>

Dear Folks -

Dave replied to Derek:
>No jump points. You can jump from wherever you want (outside the umpty G
>gradient). There will be typical jump-out/jump-in points, but these will
>be movable, in relation to the gas giant you want to jump in and refuel
>from, the main world you want to trade on or departing from.
[snip]

Agree totally.

FWIW, IMTU (i.e. not canon) some larger, more populated systems have "space lanes" which are considered to be the normal, patrolled paths between the mainworld and a set of pre-defined jump "points" to neighbouring systems. If you choose to use them, they are kinda like "swimming between the flags" - you're more likely to have a lifeguard (local system forces) nearby if you get into trouble. Discourages piracy, facilitates rescue. Also helps provide an in-game(*) explanation for the canonical "jump tapes" in very early Traveller.

And allows the locals to sniff and look down their noses at all those barbaric backwaters that do not have such a civilised, defined system.

In other words, typical bloody Vilani!

(*) I like in-game explanations; not as jarring. That's why I like the idea of sub-100t jump craft being allowable due to a TL16 jump governor from HRD or the Jumpspace Institute.
----------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson ..at.. Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"