Only the wreckage would move. The TK force is acting directly on it from
out of J+ space without any inertial linkage to the psi-guy. If what
you're getting at is a TK analogy to the way the two bodies would be
pulled toward each other (equal and opposite reactions) if they were
connected by a string, that would not work. However, the psi could pull
the wreckage toward him, hit himself with it, and some of that momentum
would be imparted to him in the collision through normal collision
physics. That is already VERY non-Newtonian if that is your intent.
That's the way it would work in the TNE rules, but you can do what you
want in your universe to make it interesting. I don't remember what the
rules said about telekinesing yourself (flying), but it was probably
something like some "field of yourselfness" saying you couldn't do it.
I like Uxi's suggestion about giving penalties to accuracy in
really-really-really-small G due to fineness of control compared to
working in a g-field which tends to stabilize you (but more on how it's
really the same in micro-G below).
HOWEVER, here is where it gets interesting/stupid. I'll unpack "stupid"
first.
Traveller psi powers took your typical "magickal" (Gygax spelling)
"mental" powers from popular culture and pulled them in as-is. But a
pencil sitting on a table on Regina is not actually "stationary." It's
moving at an ungodly absolute vector, being pulled toward the center of
Regina + rotational vector of Regina's surface + orbital vector of Regina
around (I don't remember name of) star + rotational vector of (name of)
star around center of Milky Way + vector of Milky Way away from the Big
Bang. The fact that Traveller grandfathered in the fantasy of classic
magickal TK means that this physics is not a problem, it is abstracted
down to/calculated on the Psi's "stationary" relationship to the object
being TKed. Does this mean that the psi is actually controlling forces
scaled to to the actual ungodly vector? Or somehow due to the magic of
sloppy thinking about the actual physics embedded in taking over the
classic magickal model does that stuff all cancel out due to the supposed
"stationariness" of the TK actor and TK object relative to each other? On
the one hand it doesn't matter, because CT said it existed, so there you
have it, it must work. On the other, how does the classic TK on Earth's
surface (from where it was photocopied) translate into TK in micro-G?
So, back to where you can make it "interesting." If the psi is
manipulating forces on the "ungodly vector" scale, then arguably he's got
a lot more power at his disposal (the only reason I can apply a small
number of Newtons to a pencil is because I am leveraging my vector towards
Earth's center among others, which is why "picking up" a pencil in orbit
creates the problems felt almost disastrously by Gene Cernan, Michael
Collins, Dick Gordon, et al.). Which is good, because if he and the
wreckage are in low Earth orbit, their orbital vector is ~8 km/sec for
back-of-the-e-mail calculations (which you may be aware is the gaping plot
hole at the center of "Gravity"--an MMU cannot generate enough force to
appreciably bend a LEO vector--not counting Earth around Sol, Sol around
Milky Way, Milky Way into the void, more on that in a moment). This might
allow you as Ref to rule, "you try to apply some force to the thing, but
nothing happens" because of the "invisible" size of the orbital vector.
HOWEVER again, since you can do it on Regina's surface you are surmounting
those absolute vectors because the psi force has nothing to do with your
inertial link to the object. AND from a practical game standpoint, the Ref
is NOT going to say, "okay, that's it for tonight, come back next week
when I've calculated the vectors." So, from a practical and
internal-handwavium-"CT-said-it-was-possible-so-we-have-to-make-it-work"
standpoint, the TK process must have an internal normalizing effect, which
means that if the TKing Psi and the TK target are both in the same "local
frame of reference," i.e., "semi-stationary compared to each other"
(whether that is on the surface of Earth/Regina, in the galley of a moving
starship, or in a common orbit), the force calculated to move an object is
only related to each other, and the other vectors outside of their "local
frame of reference" wash out, with the understanding that there is no
equal-and-opposite reaction on the TKing psi.
I will lay money that GURPS already has an approach to this which is
perfectly useful. The only thing to keep in mind is that if you wish to be
a TNE purist, the psi force does not come from any physical manifestation
between the body of the Psi and the body being TKed, so no Newtonian
equal-and-opposite-reaction. If you want to think about why this is, you
must start from clairvoyance and clairaudience as described in CT and work
backwards from there. You might draw different conclusions/make different
decisions than TNE did, but TNE did make a significant decision.
Food for thought. Or, after all this typing, maybe "Junk Food" for
thought. This was a better answer with only the first paragraph by itself,
but I couldn't help myself.
Dave
> I have a scenario in mind to throw at my players in the future, however
in
> pondering the variables that players are so expert at inventing, I ran
in
> to a mental roadblock!
> Basically, the scenario involves the need to be EVA in a barely operable
suit, and as events transpire, the suit thrusters die. *(Yes, Gravity was
> a
> small inspiration, though I have not yet seen the movie) One of the
characters has telekinesis. How can this be used to manipulate himself or
> objects in zero gravity? I suspect the laws of conservation of
> energy momentum may not work as envisioned by Newton 8-) example with
round
> numbers. player in vacc weighs 100 Kg, tried to 'pull' a 10kg piece of
wreckage with his TK in order to develop momentum for a push to another
more massive object. will player and object close at velocities relative
to
> each others mass? will only the wreckage move? or only the player? Or in
a
> true anti newtonian wrench, is TK dependant on some form of gravity as a
medium?
> In keeping with as much of a "hard science" flavor as an RPG game can
handle, I want the scenario to play out with as much believability as
possible, in order to minimize the handwavium affect.
>
> --
> "Christmas is a time when kids tell Santa what they want and adults pay
for
> it. Deficits are when adults tell the government what they want and
their
> kids pay for it."
>
out of J+ space without any inertial linkage to the psi-guy. If what
you're getting at is a TK analogy to the way the two bodies would be
pulled toward each other (equal and opposite reactions) if they were
connected by a string, that would not work. However, the psi could pull
the wreckage toward him, hit himself with it, and some of that momentum
would be imparted to him in the collision through normal collision
physics. That is already VERY non-Newtonian if that is your intent.
That's the way it would work in the TNE rules, but you can do what you
want in your universe to make it interesting. I don't remember what the
rules said about telekinesing yourself (flying), but it was probably
something like some "field of yourselfness" saying you couldn't do it.
I like Uxi's suggestion about giving penalties to accuracy in
really-really-really-small G due to fineness of control compared to
working in a g-field which tends to stabilize you (but more on how it's
really the same in micro-G below).
HOWEVER, here is where it gets interesting/stupid. I'll unpack "stupid"
first.
Traveller psi powers took your typical "magickal" (Gygax spelling)
"mental" powers from popular culture and pulled them in as-is. But a
pencil sitting on a table on Regina is not actually "stationary." It's
moving at an ungodly absolute vector, being pulled toward the center of
Regina + rotational vector of Regina's surface + orbital vector of Regina
around (I don't remember name of) star + rotational vector of (name of)
star around center of Milky Way + vector of Milky Way away from the Big
Bang. The fact that Traveller grandfathered in the fantasy of classic
magickal TK means that this physics is not a problem, it is abstracted
down to/calculated on the Psi's "stationary" relationship to the object
being TKed. Does this mean that the psi is actually controlling forces
scaled to to the actual ungodly vector? Or somehow due to the magic of
sloppy thinking about the actual physics embedded in taking over the
classic magickal model does that stuff all cancel out due to the supposed
"stationariness" of the TK actor and TK object relative to each other? On
the one hand it doesn't matter, because CT said it existed, so there you
have it, it must work. On the other, how does the classic TK on Earth's
surface (from where it was photocopied) translate into TK in micro-G?
So, back to where you can make it "interesting." If the psi is
manipulating forces on the "ungodly vector" scale, then arguably he's got
a lot more power at his disposal (the only reason I can apply a small
number of Newtons to a pencil is because I am leveraging my vector towards
Earth's center among others, which is why "picking up" a pencil in orbit
creates the problems felt almost disastrously by Gene Cernan, Michael
Collins, Dick Gordon, et al.). Which is good, because if he and the
wreckage are in low Earth orbit, their orbital vector is ~8 km/sec for
back-of-the-e-mail calculations (which you may be aware is the gaping plot
hole at the center of "Gravity"--an MMU cannot generate enough force to
appreciably bend a LEO vector--not counting Earth around Sol, Sol around
Milky Way, Milky Way into the void, more on that in a moment). This might
allow you as Ref to rule, "you try to apply some force to the thing, but
nothing happens" because of the "invisible" size of the orbital vector.
HOWEVER again, since you can do it on Regina's surface you are surmounting
those absolute vectors because the psi force has nothing to do with your
inertial link to the object. AND from a practical game standpoint, the Ref
is NOT going to say, "okay, that's it for tonight, come back next week
when I've calculated the vectors." So, from a practical and
internal-handwavium-"CT-said-it-was-possible-so-we-have-to-make-it-work"
standpoint, the TK process must have an internal normalizing effect, which
means that if the TKing Psi and the TK target are both in the same "local
frame of reference," i.e., "semi-stationary compared to each other"
(whether that is on the surface of Earth/Regina, in the galley of a moving
starship, or in a common orbit), the force calculated to move an object is
only related to each other, and the other vectors outside of their "local
frame of reference" wash out, with the understanding that there is no
equal-and-opposite reaction on the TKing psi.
I will lay money that GURPS already has an approach to this which is
perfectly useful. The only thing to keep in mind is that if you wish to be
a TNE purist, the psi force does not come from any physical manifestation
between the body of the Psi and the body being TKed, so no Newtonian
equal-and-opposite-reaction. If you want to think about why this is, you
must start from clairvoyance and clairaudience as described in CT and work
backwards from there. You might draw different conclusions/make different
decisions than TNE did, but TNE did make a significant decision.
Food for thought. Or, after all this typing, maybe "Junk Food" for
thought. This was a better answer with only the first paragraph by itself,
but I couldn't help myself.
Dave
> I have a scenario in mind to throw at my players in the future, however
in
> pondering the variables that players are so expert at inventing, I ran
in
> to a mental roadblock!
> Basically, the scenario involves the need to be EVA in a barely operable
suit, and as events transpire, the suit thrusters die. *(Yes, Gravity was
> a
> small inspiration, though I have not yet seen the movie) One of the
characters has telekinesis. How can this be used to manipulate himself or
> objects in zero gravity? I suspect the laws of conservation of
> energy momentum may not work as envisioned by Newton 8-) example with
round
> numbers. player in vacc weighs 100 Kg, tried to 'pull' a 10kg piece of
wreckage with his TK in order to develop momentum for a push to another
more massive object. will player and object close at velocities relative
to
> each others mass? will only the wreckage move? or only the player? Or in
a
> true anti newtonian wrench, is TK dependant on some form of gravity as a
medium?
> In keeping with as much of a "hard science" flavor as an RPG game can
handle, I want the scenario to play out with as much believability as
possible, in order to minimize the handwavium affect.
>
> --
> "Christmas is a time when kids tell Santa what they want and adults pay
for
> it. Deficits are when adults tell the government what they want and
their
> kids pay for it."
>