Richard--
You have a lot of questions in there, but for time, I'll limit myself to two:
1. What can be done in one session/will the players enjoy this?
A: It really depends on your players. Most of my groups always loved the
idea of building things, especially bases, and they will have a ball with
figuring all of this stuff out. You can keep them busy with maintaining
starport security against wandering herds, curious kids, etc. For the more
action-oriented, you'll have to give them more immediate things, like
"pre-collapse records show a manufacturing center here...looks like there
may be a cache of something...oops, looks like it's heavily defended by a
local warlord." And that works for both groups, because to make this
starport into a going concern, you have to find things that people want to
come and get to trade for. You're looking for something to make it stand
out: relic technology, valuable raw materials: rare earths, e.g.,
lanthanum (Traveller39;s dilithium crystals), etc.
B: Any starship with streamlining and Contra-G can land anywhere it wants,
with minimal muss and fuss. There is a misconception that starships must
ignite entire forests upon re-entry, which is not true. Contra-G negates
99%+ of the ship's "weight," i.e., vector due to gravity. In other words,
it is almost neutrally buoyant in atmosphere, so it doesn't take much
excess power to maneuver. The way to think about it is modern fighters and
their thrust:weight ratio. Greater than 1 means they have engine power to
accelerate straight up, meaning that they have enough power to negate
gravity (the "1") and the rest is available for maneuver/acceleration,
even going straight up. In straight and level flight they don't even need
to use the "1" to negate gravity, as aerodynamics does that for them. Bear
in mind that most aircraft have thrust:weight ratios far lower than one,
because aerodynamics do that for them. So it's only going to take a TNE
starship about 0.1 G to maneuver in atmo, which is not going to set
anything on fire. Also recall that the beauty of CG is that it negates ALL
of the vector due to gravity. So if you're landing on a big, dense world
with a local 2G field, ALL of that is negated. But remember that the
excess thrust is now divided by 2, not 1. So a TNE starship entering atmo
would initially start re-entry without the CG turned on, to use the
gravity to pull it into atmosphere. Somewhere up high, it would start
cranking up the CG to stop accelerating downwards, and use thrust to kill
whatever remaining vectors were not desired. At a certain point they'd
reach "neutral buoyancy" still high up in the air, still not catching
anything on fire, and they would maneuver using 0.1 G or less of
thrusters, generally far less, because if they are streamlined, they have
control surfaces, and are maneuvering up and down by using their "diving
planes" to suddenly shift the metaphor to submarines. Being streamlined
means having things like speed brakes and spoilers, so when it's time to
land, they can kill lateral vectors aerodynamically, with a few puffs of
the HEPlaR thrusters, which is mostly steam at those energy levels. No
forests catching on fire. More like a Harrier.
Dave
> Thanks. I was kinda wondering about the importance of the "first contact"
> (discovery) missions and the reasonable length of time between a "recovery
> mission" and estimating a planet's capacity for trading natural resources,
> raw materials and ancient technology.
> Â
> Can this be done in one play session? Are hot recoveries the only type of
> scenario that is fun/satisfying in a game session. What kind of
> challenges, encounters and battles Would a party need to keep this
> interesting? For example, starting from "discovery," could a party of
> players be dispatched from Aubaine (or some other where) with the goal of
> making contact with an unknown civilization, estimating possible trade
> resources and, finally, reporting back to Aubaine that a suitable location
> has been found to plant a rudimentary class X starport?
> Â
> Forgetting about the currency exchange rate (which is very low for a class
> X starport), how can this be made interesting and risky for the players.
> Is role-playing a survey simply a matter of "trickling" system
> information every time the players overcome an obstacle? Does the RCES
> have ships capable of landing on a dirt runway (decayed landing pad)or are
> we talking parachutes and long falls through the atmosphere?
> Â
> According to "Path of Tears," Discovery consists of "identifying and
> locating key resources necessary to establish interstellar commerce." (30)
> Initial surveys are called "stardust," but the actual process of
> evaluating a world seems a bit confusing because with "hot recovery" we
> are talking about landing on a planet that may be truly hostile to
> outsiders. We could end up just like the Mary Ellen Carter (famous
> merchant ship of the Dawn League) Â If a party's starship becomes damaged,
> is the expedition lost (high tech shipyards would not be an option on an
> isolated world.)? Assuming global radio or meson communicators, could
> the party reach the rest of the expedition? Thank you for your responses,
> Richard
>
> -- On Tue, 1/29/13, Todd Kes > wrote:
>
>
> From: Todd Kes >
> Subject: Re: [Traveller_TNE] Trade routes in the RCES
> To: "" >
> Date: Tuesday, January 29, 2013, 5:17 PM
>
>
>
> Â
>
>
>
>
> For without a Starport, I'd try to evaluate the overall tech level. Do
> they have radio? Communicate with someone down below, and follow their
> transmission when you want to land. No radio? Land near the largest
> concentration of population, without incinerating the local crops.
>
> As to the trade itself, I'd classify it as 'X' on the Starport chart,
> using the Exchange Rate table on page 230 of the Traveller TNE book for
> the relevant values. So on the bright side the characters39; currency is
> going to go a lot farther. On the downside, they are likely among the
> few visitors (or the first) to reach the planet. So the planetary
> government will be very interested in them (and their ship), and also has
> an incentive to upgrade its Spaceport to at least 'D' category for future
> activities.
>
> For World Tamer's Handbook, just treat it as your starting colony
> essentially at the mercy of passing starships in terms of trade values,
> but hopefully you can expand enough to buy the basic items needed for a
> Space port:
> Class - Offers:
> E - Frontier Quality
> D - Poor Quality, Minor Repairs, Unrefined Fuel
> C - Routine Quality, Major Repairs, Unrefined Fuel
> B - Good Quality, Spacecraft Yards (STL only?), Overhaul capacity, Refined
> Fuel
> A - Excellent Quality, Starship yards (FTL vessels), Overhaul capacity,
> Refined Fuel
>
> Here is the Traveller wiki description:
> http://traveller.wikia.com/wiki/Starport
>
> There is a Traveller Starports book or PDF that has a list of prices in it
> for various items to build your own starport.
>
> Todd Kes
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Richard Crowley >
> In one of my previous games in RCES setting, I tried to establish possible
> trade routes after "second contact" was made to an isolated/backwater
> world in the Coalition region. Possible trade is still not guaranteed or
> even possible. Sometimes trade routes (in other versions) are determined
> by the presence of a gas giant and a serviceable starport. Starting from
> nothing, how does trade progress to a point of profit
> The following is a concept from the World-Tamer39;s Handbook (GDW 0311).Â
> Initial trading is called "off-world trade" on (35), but how is this
> done by a civilization without a starport? Would we assume that damaged
> facilities exist? Am I confusing "second contact" with the actual tech
> level?
> What is the value of making second contact in terms of opening a world to
> trade with other emergent systems
>
> )
>
>
>
>
You have a lot of questions in there, but for time, I'll limit myself to two:
1. What can be done in one session/will the players enjoy this?
A: It really depends on your players. Most of my groups always loved the
idea of building things, especially bases, and they will have a ball with
figuring all of this stuff out. You can keep them busy with maintaining
starport security against wandering herds, curious kids, etc. For the more
action-oriented, you'll have to give them more immediate things, like
"pre-collapse records show a manufacturing center here...looks like there
may be a cache of something...oops, looks like it's heavily defended by a
local warlord." And that works for both groups, because to make this
starport into a going concern, you have to find things that people want to
come and get to trade for. You're looking for something to make it stand
out: relic technology, valuable raw materials: rare earths, e.g.,
lanthanum (Traveller39;s dilithium crystals), etc.
B: Any starship with streamlining and Contra-G can land anywhere it wants,
with minimal muss and fuss. There is a misconception that starships must
ignite entire forests upon re-entry, which is not true. Contra-G negates
99%+ of the ship's "weight," i.e., vector due to gravity. In other words,
it is almost neutrally buoyant in atmosphere, so it doesn't take much
excess power to maneuver. The way to think about it is modern fighters and
their thrust:weight ratio. Greater than 1 means they have engine power to
accelerate straight up, meaning that they have enough power to negate
gravity (the "1") and the rest is available for maneuver/acceleration,
even going straight up. In straight and level flight they don't even need
to use the "1" to negate gravity, as aerodynamics does that for them. Bear
in mind that most aircraft have thrust:weight ratios far lower than one,
because aerodynamics do that for them. So it's only going to take a TNE
starship about 0.1 G to maneuver in atmo, which is not going to set
anything on fire. Also recall that the beauty of CG is that it negates ALL
of the vector due to gravity. So if you're landing on a big, dense world
with a local 2G field, ALL of that is negated. But remember that the
excess thrust is now divided by 2, not 1. So a TNE starship entering atmo
would initially start re-entry without the CG turned on, to use the
gravity to pull it into atmosphere. Somewhere up high, it would start
cranking up the CG to stop accelerating downwards, and use thrust to kill
whatever remaining vectors were not desired. At a certain point they'd
reach "neutral buoyancy" still high up in the air, still not catching
anything on fire, and they would maneuver using 0.1 G or less of
thrusters, generally far less, because if they are streamlined, they have
control surfaces, and are maneuvering up and down by using their "diving
planes" to suddenly shift the metaphor to submarines. Being streamlined
means having things like speed brakes and spoilers, so when it's time to
land, they can kill lateral vectors aerodynamically, with a few puffs of
the HEPlaR thrusters, which is mostly steam at those energy levels. No
forests catching on fire. More like a Harrier.
Dave
> Thanks. I was kinda wondering about the importance of the "first contact"
> (discovery) missions and the reasonable length of time between a "recovery
> mission" and estimating a planet's capacity for trading natural resources,
> raw materials and ancient technology.
> Â
> Can this be done in one play session? Are hot recoveries the only type of
> scenario that is fun/satisfying in a game session. What kind of
> challenges, encounters and battles Would a party need to keep this
> interesting? For example, starting from "discovery," could a party of
> players be dispatched from Aubaine (or some other where) with the goal of
> making contact with an unknown civilization, estimating possible trade
> resources and, finally, reporting back to Aubaine that a suitable location
> has been found to plant a rudimentary class X starport?
> Â
> Forgetting about the currency exchange rate (which is very low for a class
> X starport), how can this be made interesting and risky for the players.
> Is role-playing a survey simply a matter of "trickling" system
> information every time the players overcome an obstacle? Does the RCES
> have ships capable of landing on a dirt runway (decayed landing pad)or are
> we talking parachutes and long falls through the atmosphere?
> Â
> According to "Path of Tears," Discovery consists of "identifying and
> locating key resources necessary to establish interstellar commerce." (30)
> Initial surveys are called "stardust," but the actual process of
> evaluating a world seems a bit confusing because with "hot recovery" we
> are talking about landing on a planet that may be truly hostile to
> outsiders. We could end up just like the Mary Ellen Carter (famous
> merchant ship of the Dawn League) Â If a party's starship becomes damaged,
> is the expedition lost (high tech shipyards would not be an option on an
> isolated world.)? Assuming global radio or meson communicators, could
> the party reach the rest of the expedition? Thank you for your responses,
> Richard
>
> -- On Tue, 1/29/13, Todd Kes > wrote:
>
>
> From: Todd Kes >
> Subject: Re: [Traveller_TNE] Trade routes in the RCES
> To: "" >
> Date: Tuesday, January 29, 2013, 5:17 PM
>
>
>
> Â
>
>
>
>
> For without a Starport, I'd try to evaluate the overall tech level. Do
> they have radio? Communicate with someone down below, and follow their
> transmission when you want to land. No radio? Land near the largest
> concentration of population, without incinerating the local crops.
>
> As to the trade itself, I'd classify it as 'X' on the Starport chart,
> using the Exchange Rate table on page 230 of the Traveller TNE book for
> the relevant values. So on the bright side the characters39; currency is
> going to go a lot farther. On the downside, they are likely among the
> few visitors (or the first) to reach the planet. So the planetary
> government will be very interested in them (and their ship), and also has
> an incentive to upgrade its Spaceport to at least 'D' category for future
> activities.
>
> For World Tamer's Handbook, just treat it as your starting colony
> essentially at the mercy of passing starships in terms of trade values,
> but hopefully you can expand enough to buy the basic items needed for a
> Space port:
> Class - Offers:
> E - Frontier Quality
> D - Poor Quality, Minor Repairs, Unrefined Fuel
> C - Routine Quality, Major Repairs, Unrefined Fuel
> B - Good Quality, Spacecraft Yards (STL only?), Overhaul capacity, Refined
> Fuel
> A - Excellent Quality, Starship yards (FTL vessels), Overhaul capacity,
> Refined Fuel
>
> Here is the Traveller wiki description:
> http://traveller.wikia.com/wiki/Starport
>
> There is a Traveller Starports book or PDF that has a list of prices in it
> for various items to build your own starport.
>
> Todd Kes
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Richard Crowley >
> In one of my previous games in RCES setting, I tried to establish possible
> trade routes after "second contact" was made to an isolated/backwater
> world in the Coalition region. Possible trade is still not guaranteed or
> even possible. Sometimes trade routes (in other versions) are determined
> by the presence of a gas giant and a serviceable starport. Starting from
> nothing, how does trade progress to a point of profit
> The following is a concept from the World-Tamer39;s Handbook (GDW 0311).Â
> Initial trading is called "off-world trade" on (35), but how is this
> done by a civilization without a starport? Would we assume that damaged
> facilities exist? Am I confusing "second contact" with the actual tech
> level?
> What is the value of making second contact in terms of opening a world to
> trade with other emergent systems
>
> )
>
>
>
>