James--
I just posted a rambling thing over on COTI about how balkanized Traveller
has been since a long time ago, and I didn't even go into editions (having
next to no experience in that: in my day there were only three).
Your points here really drove home to me how a balkanized game has further
splintered and splintered some more as time has gone by. It's kind of like
that new age-y "visualization" thing. Think about something enough and you
attract it to you. The same way the "Rebellion" said the 3I was a phony
tissue paper veneer, the past 20 years have shown "Traveller" to be the
same. People pledging allegiance to a red sun they won't or can't follow.
Sucks to be Marc.
> Sadly, the edition wars continue. TNE and the cluster-go-round that was
> T4 attract the most derision from others, but T20 attracts a fair amount
> as well. Each gets slammed for different reasons, though. Despite having
> helped playtest/write T20 (Doc Skull and I are at the top of the
> playtesters list on the credits page for a reason), I fully appreciate the
> reasons why people dislike it.
>
> I have a CotI account and wander in occasionally, but when several of the
> "Traveller is its setting" fanatics lit into Mongoose for their
> rules/setting split scheme with a heat I have not seen since the launch of
> TNE, and chose to do so on CotI, I abandoned it as my central point of
> Traveller discussion. Most of my post count there comes from the T20
> playtest days.
>
> The "we support all versions" failure is not the fault of the forum's
> creator, though initially Hunter was just as edition-blind to anything
> past early MT as any TNE denier. Compared to the two other dominant
> Traveller fora at the time (TML and the SJG board), Hunter was open-minded
> about finding solutions in editions beyond his direct experience, and he
> set up CotI on that basis. That the user base he attracted contained
> edition-blind fanatics as well as reasonable-appearing closet TNE haters
> is hardly his fault.
>
> The Traveller fanbase as a whole is now nearly impossible to consider as a
> whole. It split with TNE's release, which led to a CT/MT split that SJG
> exploited, creating a GURPS/everyone else split in the process. The
> editions of the Long Night, including T20 and T4, have their followings,
> but Mongoose was the next big edition. This naturally led to it splitting
> the fanbase, though it brought a significant number of people back into
> Traveller from long absences.
>
> Watching all of this over the last 20+ years, as well as the edition
> neutral noodling that the TML occupies its time with these days. leads me
> to think that the idea of a grand unified Traveller is unattainable. Ask
> any ten Traveller fans what Traveller is to them and you get twelve
> answers, at least four of which define the answers of everyone else as
> heretical. the divides are over rules both general and specific, the
> timeline of the setting, and even things like page layout and publication
> choices. These are rifts that are not ever going away.
>
> --- In , Richard Crowley wrote:
>>
>> Â I would have said that CoTI is the place for T20 and and SciFi20.
>> Isn't it funny how sites that claim "We support all versions of
>> Traveller" often only support one--and religiously so? --- On Sat,
>> 1/26/13, dcndcn13@... wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: dcndcn13@...
>> Subject: Re: [Traveller_TNE] Re: COTI
>> To:
>> Date: Saturday, January 26, 2013, 5:17 PM
>>
>>
>>
>> Â
>>
>>
>>
>> Hmmm. I have no direct experience of post-GDW Traveller politics, so
>> even
>> when people tell me about it I can hardly remember which one is which.
>>
>> Actually at one point I think I confused Hunter with EDG/Consty,
>> probably
>> because they had each run a Traveller-oriented board. I know my saying
>> that must be galling to Consty, but it's simply my utter lack of
>> knowledge
>> of the post-1995 terrain that allows me the luxury of my ignorance.
>>
>> Perhaps I ought not to be dabbling in the dark COTI arts. I know I was
>> wearied by the widespread anti-TNE sentiment there years ago, so had no
>> presence there since my 2004 letter-from-exile.
>>
>> > --- In , "DED" wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I should've been more specific. It isn't T20 the Trav version that
>> >> annoyed me so much as the company that put out the product, QuikLink
>> >> Interactive. There were issues regarding money and product which I'd
>> >> rather not go into. Suffice it to say, it's done, but the experience
>> >> soured me on them.
>> >
>> > Same here... Hunter did some things involving money, business and the
>> > politics of the community that IMO aren't really forgiveable. I think
>> COTI
>> > also has an overblown sense of its own importance - Mongoose is where
>> > Traveller is at now, while CotI just caters for people who like CT and
>> T5.
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
I just posted a rambling thing over on COTI about how balkanized Traveller
has been since a long time ago, and I didn't even go into editions (having
next to no experience in that: in my day there were only three).
Your points here really drove home to me how a balkanized game has further
splintered and splintered some more as time has gone by. It's kind of like
that new age-y "visualization" thing. Think about something enough and you
attract it to you. The same way the "Rebellion" said the 3I was a phony
tissue paper veneer, the past 20 years have shown "Traveller" to be the
same. People pledging allegiance to a red sun they won't or can't follow.
Sucks to be Marc.
> Sadly, the edition wars continue. TNE and the cluster-go-round that was
> T4 attract the most derision from others, but T20 attracts a fair amount
> as well. Each gets slammed for different reasons, though. Despite having
> helped playtest/write T20 (Doc Skull and I are at the top of the
> playtesters list on the credits page for a reason), I fully appreciate the
> reasons why people dislike it.
>
> I have a CotI account and wander in occasionally, but when several of the
> "Traveller is its setting" fanatics lit into Mongoose for their
> rules/setting split scheme with a heat I have not seen since the launch of
> TNE, and chose to do so on CotI, I abandoned it as my central point of
> Traveller discussion. Most of my post count there comes from the T20
> playtest days.
>
> The "we support all versions" failure is not the fault of the forum's
> creator, though initially Hunter was just as edition-blind to anything
> past early MT as any TNE denier. Compared to the two other dominant
> Traveller fora at the time (TML and the SJG board), Hunter was open-minded
> about finding solutions in editions beyond his direct experience, and he
> set up CotI on that basis. That the user base he attracted contained
> edition-blind fanatics as well as reasonable-appearing closet TNE haters
> is hardly his fault.
>
> The Traveller fanbase as a whole is now nearly impossible to consider as a
> whole. It split with TNE's release, which led to a CT/MT split that SJG
> exploited, creating a GURPS/everyone else split in the process. The
> editions of the Long Night, including T20 and T4, have their followings,
> but Mongoose was the next big edition. This naturally led to it splitting
> the fanbase, though it brought a significant number of people back into
> Traveller from long absences.
>
> Watching all of this over the last 20+ years, as well as the edition
> neutral noodling that the TML occupies its time with these days. leads me
> to think that the idea of a grand unified Traveller is unattainable. Ask
> any ten Traveller fans what Traveller is to them and you get twelve
> answers, at least four of which define the answers of everyone else as
> heretical. the divides are over rules both general and specific, the
> timeline of the setting, and even things like page layout and publication
> choices. These are rifts that are not ever going away.
>
> --- In , Richard Crowley wrote:
>>
>> Â I would have said that CoTI is the place for T20 and and SciFi20.
>> Isn't it funny how sites that claim "We support all versions of
>> Traveller" often only support one--and religiously so? --- On Sat,
>> 1/26/13, dcndcn13@... wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: dcndcn13@...
>> Subject: Re: [Traveller_TNE] Re: COTI
>> To:
>> Date: Saturday, January 26, 2013, 5:17 PM
>>
>>
>>
>> Â
>>
>>
>>
>> Hmmm. I have no direct experience of post-GDW Traveller politics, so
>> even
>> when people tell me about it I can hardly remember which one is which.
>>
>> Actually at one point I think I confused Hunter with EDG/Consty,
>> probably
>> because they had each run a Traveller-oriented board. I know my saying
>> that must be galling to Consty, but it's simply my utter lack of
>> knowledge
>> of the post-1995 terrain that allows me the luxury of my ignorance.
>>
>> Perhaps I ought not to be dabbling in the dark COTI arts. I know I was
>> wearied by the widespread anti-TNE sentiment there years ago, so had no
>> presence there since my 2004 letter-from-exile.
>>
>> > --- In , "DED" wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I should've been more specific. It isn't T20 the Trav version that
>> >> annoyed me so much as the company that put out the product, QuikLink
>> >> Interactive. There were issues regarding money and product which I'd
>> >> rather not go into. Suffice it to say, it's done, but the experience
>> >> soured me on them.
>> >
>> > Same here... Hunter did some things involving money, business and the
>> > politics of the community that IMO aren't really forgiveable. I think
>> COTI
>> > also has an overblown sense of its own importance - Mongoose is where
>> > Traveller is at now, while CotI just caters for people who like CT and
>> T5.
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>