See, and people say that only GDW makes mistakes.
But here is a larger issue. Anything like FF&S that attempts to do what it
does is going to be inevitably so complex that it will result in a large
number of honest errors just like the one you found. There is no getting
around it. And the reason it does that is because it is so complex, and
the reason it is so complex is that is what the players say they want. As
you've seen in the past day, there have been suggestions that we should
have added details on the wheels in the tracked suspension, or more detail
to allow the different type rounds to mass different amounts. Okay, but
remember that each and every one of those additional layers of detail is
another place where players will inevitably make honest mistakes.
>From a design standpoint, I will tell you that GDW was stupid to put out a
system like FF&S because it is inescapably prone to error due to its
complexity. Design 101, you don't put out a system that people will
inevitably make significant errors in. Bad design. But that is what our
players said and still say they want. In fact, they keep saying they want
it to be made more detailed. So we made the effort to give the players
what they say they want. So we're both in this together. Good designers
would never have given you FF&S, it's just a Bad Idea. But if you really
want it, here it is, limited by all of iron laws of Mass of Complex
Concepts divided by Design Time Available.
So when you get down to it, we're right back to, "only GDW makes
mistakes," by agreeing to put the thing out.
> Forgot to say, your design is correct except for the ammo where you appear
> to have forgotten to calculate for the propellant. APFSDSDU/HEAP mass
> correctly calculated is 39.24kg
>
> --- In , Master Uxi <master.uxi@...> wrote:
>>
>> Redesigned this as part of the CPR sequence for doing the M1 Abrams
>> series
>> of MBT
>>
>> Some thoughts that have occurred to me over the years (and this time in
>> particular):
>>
>> Ammo is pretty far off and should probably be more detailed. Rather
>> simple
>> assumption, regardless of type. The table should adjust for materials
>> and
>> intent, as well as just TL. For example, 120mm ammunition if I'm
>> reading
>> right is 30kg regardless if it's APFSDS, AFSDSDU, HEAT (HEAP, etc).
>> Real
>> Life ... or even Wikipedia. much less my FM-17-12 (aka 3-20) tells us
>> the
>> M829 sabot variants ranged from 18.6 to 22.3kg depending on the
>> propellant
>> and density of the DU penetrator as well as details like metal vs carbon
>> fiber sabots, etc.
>>
But here is a larger issue. Anything like FF&S that attempts to do what it
does is going to be inevitably so complex that it will result in a large
number of honest errors just like the one you found. There is no getting
around it. And the reason it does that is because it is so complex, and
the reason it is so complex is that is what the players say they want. As
you've seen in the past day, there have been suggestions that we should
have added details on the wheels in the tracked suspension, or more detail
to allow the different type rounds to mass different amounts. Okay, but
remember that each and every one of those additional layers of detail is
another place where players will inevitably make honest mistakes.
>From a design standpoint, I will tell you that GDW was stupid to put out a
system like FF&S because it is inescapably prone to error due to its
complexity. Design 101, you don't put out a system that people will
inevitably make significant errors in. Bad design. But that is what our
players said and still say they want. In fact, they keep saying they want
it to be made more detailed. So we made the effort to give the players
what they say they want. So we're both in this together. Good designers
would never have given you FF&S, it's just a Bad Idea. But if you really
want it, here it is, limited by all of iron laws of Mass of Complex
Concepts divided by Design Time Available.
So when you get down to it, we're right back to, "only GDW makes
mistakes," by agreeing to put the thing out.
> Forgot to say, your design is correct except for the ammo where you appear
> to have forgotten to calculate for the propellant. APFSDSDU/HEAP mass
> correctly calculated is 39.24kg
>
> --- In , Master Uxi <master.uxi@...> wrote:
>>
>> Redesigned this as part of the CPR sequence for doing the M1 Abrams
>> series
>> of MBT
>>
>> Some thoughts that have occurred to me over the years (and this time in
>> particular):
>>
>> Ammo is pretty far off and should probably be more detailed. Rather
>> simple
>> assumption, regardless of type. The table should adjust for materials
>> and
>> intent, as well as just TL. For example, 120mm ammunition if I'm
>> reading
>> right is 30kg regardless if it's APFSDS, AFSDSDU, HEAT (HEAP, etc).
>> Real
>> Life ... or even Wikipedia. much less my FM-17-12 (aka 3-20) tells us
>> the
>> M829 sabot variants ranged from 18.6 to 22.3kg depending on the
>> propellant
>> and density of the DU penetrator as well as details like metal vs carbon
>> fiber sabots, etc.
>>