While you have a point, the threat is to higher computer functions, many seemingly complex systems do not require computing power greater than an old 8086 processor the PLC's do not have to be made with flash writing capability, etc etc. Even for the control satellite &/or ground station. Frankly puting a high end computer into a mine is a waste of time, effort, and money ... the vampire fleet could possibly gain control of a minefield but would run into the same hassles that a human ship or fleet would have which lies in the fact that they can be (emphasis on can be) just too darned dumb to be turned around effectively.
More likely would be that after conducting extensive EW, the opposing force becomes able to gain access to the mines and is able to shut them down. Then after considerably more work they are able to redeploy them with new hard/firm coded parameters.
T
--- On Wed, 8/4/10, Richard Perks <> wrote:
From: Richard Perks <>
Subject: Re: [Traveller_TNE] Minefields
To:
Date: Wednesday, August 4, 2010, 11:17 AM
One small problem, if you are running TNE, then the Virus from a vampire fleet could infiltrate your mine control system (either ground based or a control mine) and then it could get interesting with the your own minefield interdicting your planet or even turning its fire on planetside facilities.
Given that most TNE worlds have low tech levels and may be up against vampire fleets equipped with higher tech relic imperial systems, I would be worried by a remote control mine system.
It might just be easier to go for a simple mine that detected and target and went boom all on its own. You could plant some decoy dummy mines as well and plot an entry passage that just passed the decoys (to allow your ships to enter and leave).
Cheers
Richard
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Reilly
To:
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Traveller_TNE] Minefields
at the ***
--- On Wed, 8/4/10, Roger Malmstein <starwolf@travellerf reeport.com> wrote:
From: Roger Malmstein <starwolf@travellerf reeport.com>
Subject: Re: [Traveller_TNE] Minefields
To:
Date: Wednesday, August 4, 2010, 8:42 AM
Thanks for the valuable input Roger. I am currently writing a document with design tips and game rules that will apear on my website this monday. Even a few sample designs will be posted. One has been posted already. An updated document on missiles. The mine is the last entry in the table.
I agree that some sort of control are needed or else everything will go kablooey. We can't have too many mines engaging the same target. There needs to be a way to shut down mines, even in enemy space. Some day peace will come and the former enemy won't react well with still active mines that can be dangerous to its interstellar commerce.
*** time duration is often used, then active sweeping operations, ability to receive coded commands hmmm, maybe-maybe not points would go both ways.
I wouldn't go for antipersonel systems on mines as when the mine is detected it has no real value. I would blow it up along with enything that is close by. To prevent a chain reaction mine must be by design placed far apart. I am thinking about a automated controller mine that flies higher than the rest with better sensor capability and logic to track, priorittize and assign targets to mines flying lower.
*** why would this be a 'mine' at all? a dedicated control satellite with enough whatever onboard to self destruct beyond recovery of anything valuable is all that's needed (if you went nuke with the charge it wouldn't be a laser head, just an old standard nuke).
Mines will due to design limitations be limited to short sensor ranges. This is actually a good thing as you don't want several mines detect the same target and go off.
*** since you're using the comms from the control mine/satellite the 'short range' can be overcome by using a dispersed array similar to many different radio telescopes in use today. Using whisker comm lasers the mine field then becomes 'very effective' to take on whatever blunders into range...including targetting by size, type and #s used for each.
One or two extra mines may not hurt, but a dozen? A controller will, if neccessary, assign proper number of mines to a target.
A controller will also ensure that mines doesn't attack dummies or already killed targets wasting expensive mines.
*** maybe, maybe not in the fray of battle sensor quality will be degraded, along with the comms due to the plasma from the exploding mines on the one hand, and on the targets at the other. Also relative velocities may mean that there isn't much time even for computerized systems to run through their logic trees ... (then again there might be, it just depends) and re: dummies, (decoys?) these if used would be designed to attract the hits and therefore would be expected to take a number of them (mines) off their intended targets. Decoys would have a relatively short duration perhaps tens of minutes, perhaps more and would be fairly expensive so wouldn't be deployed willy-nilly, but only when the perceived need arises.
Currently I am running a campaign in Classic Times, but with TNE rules.
T
--
Roger Malmstein
www.travellerfreepo rt.com
From: roger
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 2:39 PM
To:
Subject: [Traveller_TNE] Minefields
Minefields by their very nature are booby traps. Once you know its there you can avoid them or sweep them. In the 4th Imperium, the Scout Service would take a dim view of mining a planet, unless they did it themselves, say to protect a low-tech population from contamination, and would probably sweep it themselves. In the New Era if near Coalition space, the RCES would sweep the field, a good way to show the locals that the "Star Vikings" are not so bad after all.
First, sweeping the field may be a problem, low tech worlds couldn't do it, a TL-8 world could, but it wouldn't be easy, at Tl-9 advanced thrusters start appearing that would allow people better-easier access to space. Sending in a ship is self-defeating unless it has enough armor to defeat the mines laser bolts. A second way would be to shoot down the mine using a air to air like missile reconfigured for space to space use. A third way is to send someone in a EV suit to deactivate the mines. They would need space based personal transporter (rocket stake, jet pack) and a small craft to get them near the mine.
To avoid having your mine spotted easily it should have stealth or EM-Masking, a close in defence system, maybe a motion detector rigged to a laser rifle to keep anti-mine personal away.
You will also need both large and small mines. FF+S allows for interpolation and here I would use it! Nuclear Pumped X-Ray warheads range from 10 to 500 kilotons, but ordinary!!! warheads go as small as 0.1kt. These cheap mines would be sprinkled amongst the ship killers with orders to take out small craft, while the larger ship killers were ordered not to detonate against anything smaller than 100 D Tons.
How long do you plan to keep your mine field active? If you are targeting a single ship or say vampire fleet. You can skip this part. If you plan to keep the mine field up as a deterrent or road block you should leave replacement mines in the mine field. These mines would not be active, and would stay dormant until they picked up a mine detonating then after a short period, say two hours they would activate. The delay would let the ship that triggered the original mine to clear the field. This is not mercy just practical, you don't want ta 100 Ton scout triggering the whole field simply because the scout is to stupid to not blow up.
You might have to think about intelligent control for your mine field as well. Big ships are few and far between in the New Era but they do exist. A 500kt mine might not be able to penetrate the thick hide of a large ship so would be a useless to shoot at it unless you went for sensor/ antenna kills, but shooting at its support ships could make a difference. If you can't sink the aircraft carrier sink all its escorts and the carrier captain is going to feel very naked without them! Here a intelligent mine, maybe with a full sized ship's computer instead of warhead would work. A maned ground base, or defence platform (again there's one of these in BARD) could work and the defence platform could be of use in protecting the mine field. Also I agree with Tim nuclear power plants in my universe give off heat so I would also go with solar power and batteries. In case this isn't feasible there is a rule in Brilliant Lances that allows a ship to reduce its
signature by one level if it reduces its power plant output to 1% so I see no reason that mines couldn't be designed to do this.
You might also think about placing your mines in the "junk belt" the area surrounding a planet that holds all the dead and living satellites and the other space junk that accumulates from a near-space faring society.
This is a good subject, its given me two ideas for adventures. First a Lancer crew is hired by the Coalition to lay a booby-trap mine field at a gas giant known to be a vampire refueling point in an effort to whittle down a vampire fleet. Second the Lancers are hired to remove a minefield that the Solee have set up to force a planet to join them.
Let me know what you think.
Roger