Hi Dave,
I mean that the ship referenced by Harold was not done by any TNE design process. It appears to be an adaption of the Vixtrix to a subsequent design system.
Eamon
BTW, my comment on the launch and Donosev was not meant to be depreciatory in any way - to have produced what you and GDW did, with the tech of the day was amazing. The fact that we're all talking about it 2 decades later attests to that.
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 24/2/15, [Traveller_TNE] <> wrote:
Subject: Re: Ships that were broken (was Re: [Traveller_TNE] Re: What do Hivers know about the Droyne?)
To:
Date: Tuesday, 24 February, 2015, 16:00
Eamon--
When you say "non-FFS" do you mean before FFS was
published? Like in the
BL booklet? There are two things going on there. One is that
some ships
got designed while the system was evolving, and may not have
gotten
thoroughly updated as things changed. Since the flag on the
launch was the
lower threshold and not the power density, that might have
been something
that hadn't been written yet, or was easy to overlook,
easily the latter.
The other is that ship designers could make mistakes faster
than I could
check them, much less fix them. I would have a stack of
print-outs on my
desk and I would go through them and line out the errors and
send them
back for corrections and they would come back with new
errors introduced,
and after seeing the same ship in a tractor-feed dot-matrix
print-out
literally 10 or 12 times you would just about go blind. BL
literally
reduced me to tears. We had missed two or three printer
deadlines and the
premise was that the persons making the ships were
"going to get them
right this time, really we mean it," and I had been
promising my wife our
first "vacation" (a three-day weekend, remember, I
worked 80 hours/wk 52
weeks a year for four years straight) that kept getting
cancelled, and
here we were on the last day and I started reviewing the
ships and they
were ALL f#$%ed up and all of the life just drained out of
me because I
was going to have to call my wife and cancel the
"vacation" again. I
walked out onto the back porch and just started crying. My
disappearance
got some kind of attention in the office and a parade of
people came out
to try to keep me from...jumping, or something. Finally our
print buyer
came out and told me she called the printer and got us an
extension so I
could finish it after the three-day weekend. Even though I
wasn't going to
jump, and it was just the second story anyway, I have always
thought of
that moment that she "saved my life," because I
was just done at that
point. My wife ended up divorcing me anyway. It's hard
to remember back
then that all that stuff was done manually with a hand
calculator. No
spreadsheets that we could afford, no Internet, no e-mail.
Building
mnemonic circuits with stone knives and bearskins.
When did we do the Donosev? Was that BL too? I think maybe I
can remember
the counter, with that ice cream scoop. I'll bet we
ended up changing the
hangar volume multipliers. I still have all of those old
print-outs,
assuming they're not water damaged or chewed up by mice
or something. The
only things I threw away were the production schedules and
warehouse
reports, and of course I wish I hadn't done that. Also
two USS Coral Sea
UIMs that were given to me at her decommissioning ceremony
that
accidentally got tossed in an "empty" bag. I spent
some time dumpster
diving for those but had to give up. We had a really big
dumpster behind
the building.
> Actually,
>
> I think that comment is about a non-FFS version of the
Victrix.
>
> Actual 'broken' ships in TNE seem rare. The
TL-12 Launch has a 14MW Fusion
> Plant - lowest output at TL-12 is 20MW. The Donosev is
a little bit
> Tardisy, having an over spill in internal tonnage from
the hangars.
>
> Considering this was done in the days before the Holy
Spreadsheet of St.
> Antti Lahiten*, that is a laudable score.
>
> Eamon
>
> * Not that using the sheet in the Forms Booklets did
not have it's own
> charms...
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sun, 22/2/15, Harold Hale
[Traveller_TNE]
> <> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [Traveller_TNE] Re: What do Hivers know
about the Droyne?
> To: ""
<>
> Date: Sunday, 22 February, 2015, 14:32
>
> Wouldn't
> be the first time that something popped up in a
Traveller
> book that can't be re-created using the design
> sequences.
>
http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss//showthread.php?p=116339
> FYI: TL 12
> ship with a TL 13 jump drive and power plant
>
> There was
> also one of the design sequences in FF&S (I
don't
> recall now which one off the top of my head) that
simply
> couldn't produce equivalent 20th century real
world
> designs. Simple solution was just go ahead and use
what
> FF&S gave you with the knowledge it was
> "wrong" or use the contemporary numbers
for
> whatever it was and not stress about it.
>
> Ultimately though we're speculating here about
the
> "how" behind a canon storyline. The story
is
> indeed correct as you state by default. The
"how"
> has more wiggle room.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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I mean that the ship referenced by Harold was not done by any TNE design process. It appears to be an adaption of the Vixtrix to a subsequent design system.
Eamon
BTW, my comment on the launch and Donosev was not meant to be depreciatory in any way - to have produced what you and GDW did, with the tech of the day was amazing. The fact that we're all talking about it 2 decades later attests to that.
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 24/2/15, [Traveller_TNE] <> wrote:
Subject: Re: Ships that were broken (was Re: [Traveller_TNE] Re: What do Hivers know about the Droyne?)
To:
Date: Tuesday, 24 February, 2015, 16:00
Eamon--
When you say "non-FFS" do you mean before FFS was
published? Like in the
BL booklet? There are two things going on there. One is that
some ships
got designed while the system was evolving, and may not have
gotten
thoroughly updated as things changed. Since the flag on the
launch was the
lower threshold and not the power density, that might have
been something
that hadn't been written yet, or was easy to overlook,
easily the latter.
The other is that ship designers could make mistakes faster
than I could
check them, much less fix them. I would have a stack of
print-outs on my
desk and I would go through them and line out the errors and
send them
back for corrections and they would come back with new
errors introduced,
and after seeing the same ship in a tractor-feed dot-matrix
print-out
literally 10 or 12 times you would just about go blind. BL
literally
reduced me to tears. We had missed two or three printer
deadlines and the
premise was that the persons making the ships were
"going to get them
right this time, really we mean it," and I had been
promising my wife our
first "vacation" (a three-day weekend, remember, I
worked 80 hours/wk 52
weeks a year for four years straight) that kept getting
cancelled, and
here we were on the last day and I started reviewing the
ships and they
were ALL f#$%ed up and all of the life just drained out of
me because I
was going to have to call my wife and cancel the
"vacation" again. I
walked out onto the back porch and just started crying. My
disappearance
got some kind of attention in the office and a parade of
people came out
to try to keep me from...jumping, or something. Finally our
print buyer
came out and told me she called the printer and got us an
extension so I
could finish it after the three-day weekend. Even though I
wasn't going to
jump, and it was just the second story anyway, I have always
thought of
that moment that she "saved my life," because I
was just done at that
point. My wife ended up divorcing me anyway. It's hard
to remember back
then that all that stuff was done manually with a hand
calculator. No
spreadsheets that we could afford, no Internet, no e-mail.
Building
mnemonic circuits with stone knives and bearskins.
When did we do the Donosev? Was that BL too? I think maybe I
can remember
the counter, with that ice cream scoop. I'll bet we
ended up changing the
hangar volume multipliers. I still have all of those old
print-outs,
assuming they're not water damaged or chewed up by mice
or something. The
only things I threw away were the production schedules and
warehouse
reports, and of course I wish I hadn't done that. Also
two USS Coral Sea
UIMs that were given to me at her decommissioning ceremony
that
accidentally got tossed in an "empty" bag. I spent
some time dumpster
diving for those but had to give up. We had a really big
dumpster behind
the building.
> Actually,
>
> I think that comment is about a non-FFS version of the
Victrix.
>
> Actual 'broken' ships in TNE seem rare. The
TL-12 Launch has a 14MW Fusion
> Plant - lowest output at TL-12 is 20MW. The Donosev is
a little bit
> Tardisy, having an over spill in internal tonnage from
the hangars.
>
> Considering this was done in the days before the Holy
Spreadsheet of St.
> Antti Lahiten*, that is a laudable score.
>
> Eamon
>
> * Not that using the sheet in the Forms Booklets did
not have it's own
> charms...
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sun, 22/2/15, Harold Hale
[Traveller_TNE]
> <> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [Traveller_TNE] Re: What do Hivers know
about the Droyne?
> To: ""
<>
> Date: Sunday, 22 February, 2015, 14:32
>
> Wouldn't
> be the first time that something popped up in a
Traveller
> book that can't be re-created using the design
> sequences.
>
http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss//showthread.php?p=116339
> FYI: TL 12
> ship with a TL 13 jump drive and power plant
>
> There was
> also one of the design sequences in FF&S (I
don't
> recall now which one off the top of my head) that
simply
> couldn't produce equivalent 20th century real
world
> designs. Simple solution was just go ahead and use
what
> FF&S gave you with the knowledge it was
> "wrong" or use the contemporary numbers
for
> whatever it was and not stress about it.
>
> Ultimately though we're speculating here about
the
> "how" behind a canon storyline. The story
is
> indeed correct as you state by default. The
"how"
> has more wiggle room.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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