I had forgotten the Dipple. She was pretty sharp, and I think was the
entry into SF for a lot more kids in the 60s and 70s than maybe admitted
it.
> Lends itself to Andre' Norton's idea of the Dipple (displaced people)
> which recurred in many of her space-based fantasy books ... also
> considering Stalingrad, Jerusalem, Babylon, Nineveh, and probably look at
> a number of other ancient cities and the way they went about conquering -
> the "scorched earth" policy may have been more prevalent than we think.Â
> After you've conquered the world, what better way to keep control than to
> have your own people colonize it?
> Tim
> On Monday, April 7, 2014 1:17 AM, ""
> <> wrote:
>
> Â
>>That is a good idea in 5FW.
>>
>>The world/Hi-Pop world thing is an interesting wrinkle in a game full of
>>interesting wrinkles. The game kind of wants to come out and say, "ignore
>>all but the Hi-Pop worlds," but if it did, then you'd say, okay, what are
>>the other 90% of the worlds for? The real world is sort of like that. You
>>can take all of Illinois except Chicago, and you have taken something,
>> but
>>you really want Chicago as well.
>>
>>The other thing about Hi-Pops, as you observed, is that they tend to
>>become holocausts. Because they are so important, and both sides want
>>them, and have such huge defenses, and require such huge attacking
>> forces,
>>and have such large ground forces, and require such large invading
>> forces,
>>the fight lasts so long, what have you got after you finally take one?
>>
>>Scorched earth. You spend all that effort and get nothing for it.
>> Stalingrad.
>>
>>Maybe it's smarter to just take all the low-pop worlds after all.
>>
>>> Dear Folks -
>>>
>>> Dave wrote:
>>>>Yes, you make an excellent point, which kind of undermines the whole
>>> bootstrap concept.
>>>>There's a tendency in Traveller to think in terms of the map and worlds
>>> when the keys are
>>>>actually the Hi-Pop worlds. "Amateurs talk about worlds, Professionals
>>>> talk
>>> about Hi-Pop
>>>>worlds." While that may be "smart," to bypass, island-hop, ignore the
>>> low-pop worlds and
>>>>focus all of the effort on the Hi-Pop worlds, it seems to be counter to
>>>> the
>>> spirit of SF
>>>>gaming, where worlds matter.
>>>
>>> In one game I ran of the _Fifth Frontier War_, I changed the rules
>>> because
>>> of this problem. The original rules give points based on the tech level
>>> of
>>> the worlds you conquer; I changed it to give more emphasis to the
>>> Hi-Pop
>>> AND
>>> high-tech worlds. (Hmm, maybe full points for UWP Pop and only half
>>> points
>>> for TL? Something like that, anyway.)
>>>
>>> Makes for a different game, and more like the canonical 5FW - a war of
>>> attrition - especially since those worlds generally have LOTS of SDBs
>>> and
>>> local troops that an invader needs to subdue.
>>>
>>> But I take your point about the "romantic" side of Traveller. (Why else
>>> do
>>> you think we took over Tavonni IMTU? It _is_ right in the way of the SW
>>> invasion... ;-)
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>> David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson ..at.. Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM
>>> 1520)
>>> http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                  Â
>>>
>>> "I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of
>>> gravity"
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
entry into SF for a lot more kids in the 60s and 70s than maybe admitted
it.
> Lends itself to Andre' Norton's idea of the Dipple (displaced people)
> which recurred in many of her space-based fantasy books ... also
> considering Stalingrad, Jerusalem, Babylon, Nineveh, and probably look at
> a number of other ancient cities and the way they went about conquering -
> the "scorched earth" policy may have been more prevalent than we think.Â
> After you've conquered the world, what better way to keep control than to
> have your own people colonize it?
> Tim
> On Monday, April 7, 2014 1:17 AM, ""
> <> wrote:
>
> Â
>>That is a good idea in 5FW.
>>
>>The world/Hi-Pop world thing is an interesting wrinkle in a game full of
>>interesting wrinkles. The game kind of wants to come out and say, "ignore
>>all but the Hi-Pop worlds," but if it did, then you'd say, okay, what are
>>the other 90% of the worlds for? The real world is sort of like that. You
>>can take all of Illinois except Chicago, and you have taken something,
>> but
>>you really want Chicago as well.
>>
>>The other thing about Hi-Pops, as you observed, is that they tend to
>>become holocausts. Because they are so important, and both sides want
>>them, and have such huge defenses, and require such huge attacking
>> forces,
>>and have such large ground forces, and require such large invading
>> forces,
>>the fight lasts so long, what have you got after you finally take one?
>>
>>Scorched earth. You spend all that effort and get nothing for it.
>> Stalingrad.
>>
>>Maybe it's smarter to just take all the low-pop worlds after all.
>>
>>> Dear Folks -
>>>
>>> Dave wrote:
>>>>Yes, you make an excellent point, which kind of undermines the whole
>>> bootstrap concept.
>>>>There's a tendency in Traveller to think in terms of the map and worlds
>>> when the keys are
>>>>actually the Hi-Pop worlds. "Amateurs talk about worlds, Professionals
>>>> talk
>>> about Hi-Pop
>>>>worlds." While that may be "smart," to bypass, island-hop, ignore the
>>> low-pop worlds and
>>>>focus all of the effort on the Hi-Pop worlds, it seems to be counter to
>>>> the
>>> spirit of SF
>>>>gaming, where worlds matter.
>>>
>>> In one game I ran of the _Fifth Frontier War_, I changed the rules
>>> because
>>> of this problem. The original rules give points based on the tech level
>>> of
>>> the worlds you conquer; I changed it to give more emphasis to the
>>> Hi-Pop
>>> AND
>>> high-tech worlds. (Hmm, maybe full points for UWP Pop and only half
>>> points
>>> for TL? Something like that, anyway.)
>>>
>>> Makes for a different game, and more like the canonical 5FW - a war of
>>> attrition - especially since those worlds generally have LOTS of SDBs
>>> and
>>> local troops that an invader needs to subdue.
>>>
>>> But I take your point about the "romantic" side of Traveller. (Why else
>>> do
>>> you think we took over Tavonni IMTU? It _is_ right in the way of the SW
>>> invasion... ;-)
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>> David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson ..at.. Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM
>>> 1520)
>>> http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                  Â
>>>
>>> "I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of
>>> gravity"
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>